Audio Tweaking (dev branch)

[maddogx 13]

While trying out a few of the new weapons I've noticed that the "tail" sounds only really sound good when firing single shots.

After firing a few shots in full auto you can hear multiple overlapping tails, which just sounds weird. I've made a quick video to demonstrate the issue.

JyKX3u0bNbo

Wouldn't it be more sensible to play only one tail for the latest shot?

Also audible in this video: non-random order of sound samples in full auto mode, as has already been reported previously.

[bonham 10]

Playing only one tail would remove some of the really cool echoing pops that you hear in your video. I actually quite like it.

[vegeta897 13]

Wouldn't it be more sensible to play only one tail for the latest shot?

That would mean cutting off previous tail, which would sound pretty rough. Worse than the overlapping, it would sound like a glitch.

[laxemann 1673]

While trying out a few of the new weapons I've noticed that the "tail" sounds only really sound good when firing single shots.

After firing a few shots in full auto you can hear multiple overlapping tails, which just sounds weird. I've made a quick video to demonstrate the issue.

JyKX3u0bNbo

Wouldn't it be more sensible to play only one tail for the latest shot?

Also audible in this video: non-random order of sound samples in full auto mode, as has already been reported previously.

The problem is that only one tail sample is present, what you hear is called flanging.

Using two or even three samples will fix the issue.

[Bouben 3]

The problem is that only one tail sample is present, what you hear is called flanging.

Using two or even three samples will fix the issue.

Good point.

---------- Post added at 02:46 ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 ----------

Dynamic range has nothing to do with ear damage. Dont mix up topics. Throwing around statements without proper research & a bit of common sense does not help.

If you mean that for example footsteps are super quiet and a 120mm cannon gives a sudden loud POP BANG that blows your ears? It would need a volume increase of like 60dB to really start hurting your ears OVER TIME - not just once, but like 20-50 times in a row. And who do you think would ever mix a video game like that? Correct. Nobody. I use headphones all the time and no game has ever made me go deaf or hurt my ears by using DYNAMIC RANGE in their sound. It was the other way around - a very pleasing experience, like Battlefield 3 or Insurgency.

---------- Post added at 11:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------

Another video about audio. Has NOTHING TO DO with dynamic range. Just loudness and stuff.

Dynamic range is the difference between two extremes. In our case "just loudness and stuff". If you have a brutal dynamic range you may have to set your headphones louder in order to hear quiet sounds. Then when the loudest sound comes in it might be so loud it could damage your ears (even in a way that you don't notice immediately). Damage is mostly progressive and one can only notice it after some amount of time (months of playing for few hours a day with loudness over 80dBSPL). I don't know if you regularly have your ears tested. Might be interesting for you. I don't mix things up.

Also, things you say about initial bang being of a same loudness as its tail could be pretty much because of over-compressed attack phase of the bang. In my experience even 1ms difference of peak attack (depending on the mix context) can noticeably create an illusion of a sound being overall louder than the very same sound with just softer attack. Yet those two sounds would be pretty much of the same loudness without peaks. Even differences of transients' loudness can create an illusion of more overall loudness.

So I would say, keep the dynamic range in sane width and check the peaks (attacks). This way you could keep the dynamic range controlled because mentioned peaks are too short to put any significant pressure on ears.

[hardsiesta 1]

Not sure if I missed this before my last post or if it got changed since then, but the " pop" echo now seems to play and pretty good in open spaces, and it seems pretty much centered. Seems like it's in some urban spots that the echo is panned and becomes slightly disturbing if you turn around and still keep hearing it from same direction.

It's starting to sound pretty nice. My biggest concern still is the sonic crack at close range. Sound great further away from the bullet, but nearby ones still sound pretty weird (wildly flailing pitch from ricochets, for example) and weak for a near boom.

snip

Yes yes... I have seen the same marketing and presentations you're repeating. I was trying to hint at it with the "basically..." part. Remember the part "It's not a compressor, but it kinda is. For your ears and neighbors" or something? That's what I'm talking about. Everything that happens inside and outside that "window" is technically very nice, but to me the resulting impression is exactly what I said, and that "window" has really burned itself into my brain in the (plenty of) hours I've listened to it. Yes I can make any game and its audio image loud, and no, and I'm not completely ignorant about what ears are. Not really sure what I should get from this, but it seems irrelevant so I'll leave it at that.

On the other hand, while it's slightly inconvenient, I find it actually pretty damn cool that riding an open heli, standing next to a loud engine, firefight or any other loud things actually makes communication harder, in all its simplicity. No nonsense, no bullshit, just surprising authenticity with simple methods. But your popularity, convenience and pleasantness argument could be made generally for selling any compressor, or against other aspects in Arma that doesn't follow the usual marketing friendly action game features, but offers alternatives instead. I can see what Arma audio team went for with the loudness, and can appreciate it. I can understand your preference as well, but I just don't hear it as the best and final answer for everything. Edit: Oh and TS is 3rd party. What if you set it up like the game's own communication channels? Would probably "work as intended" with how the loudness is done in Arma.

I think this discussion belongs in some other thread anyway. As long as my additional note to the confusing use of "dynamic range" came clear, that's my 2 cents about it for now. +1 what bouben said.

Edited March 12, 2015 by HardSiesta

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Speaking of dynamic sound, the Grenades could sure use a far better sound now that a lot of other sounds are getting improved. Something like this.

A basic example of course, but you get the point.

[megagoth1702 252]

Delete this post.

Edited March 13, 2015 by megagoth1702

[bigpickle 0]

I was on vacation the last week and did not have the chance to check out the sounds but I followed this thread.

Oh man, when will people stop using crappy GoPro Camera YOUTUBE VIDEOS as reference for sound and then argue pages of text full of crap based on these videos.

The microphones on most of the youtube cameras are not even CLOSE to what's needed to capture proper sound!

If you want to hear properly recorded bullet cracks, check out PROFESSIONAL RECORDINGS!

http://therecordist.com/supersonic-subsonic-bullets

All bullets sound the same really. Tiny pitch & volume changes. The rest comes from the environment echo.

I really dig what your saying, Frank Bry is way above the average recordist especially when it comes to firearms. That is a level you will not see as an average in Arma or pretty much any other game. My opinion is he is the best in the business by far with Watson Wu a close second.

People do need to recognize that a proper field recording setup is needed to gauge the true potential of sound.

Personally I sport a very modest field recording rig:

Fostex FR2-LE with a Portabrace Carry Bag

x2 Rode NTG3

X1 Rode NTG2

Blimps, both old and 2014 edition

Rode Extendable Boom Pole

For cabling I use:

Gold Neglex Quad Microphone Cable for Studio Neutrik XLR

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/mogami-gold-neglex-quad-microphone-cable-for-studio-neutrik-xlr

With a gold quad Mogami 3106 splitter when doing mono work

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221652641453?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Although this is a very meger budget setup costing around £1500 - £2000 including microphone stands etc, having the ear for sound and the editing practice can on some occations make up for very expensive kit.

As examples to demonstrate I provide a few samples to listen to, these samples were recorded in mono WAV 96000Hz and had doppler artifically created in the editing process, The nosie floor may be heard certainly more than on expensive proffessional setups:

Grumman F8F Bearcat

Supermarine Spitfire Squadron Takeoff

North American B25 Mitchell

---------- Post added at 09:06 ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 ----------

On a seperate subject:

I wanted to quote myself as my question may have not been spotted by the devs or audio devs. An answer would indeed help me with my mod development and I'm sure help others who are editing sounds.

Will this attenuation be for all sounds played within the game enviornment ie scripted sounds using playSound, Say, Say3d and all the other commands to play audio?

Another question in reference to the new "tails" is :

Will the information about the surface area ie meadow forest etc be passed with a new edition to the Fired Event Handler?

Thanks

Edited March 14, 2015 by Bigpickle

[bullhorn 18]

Wow, his sounds are amazing.

https://soundcloud.com/therecordist/ultimate-bullet-hd-pro

I would crap my pants and duck for cover if getting shot at in ARMA actually sounded like that.

[cyruz 103]

One thing that really stands out and needing attention, impact sounds. I'm not sure how true to life hearing bullet impacts is during a fire fight but it really adds another dimension of "we're getting heavily suppressed" when you can hear rounds hitting trees and rocks over the gunfire etc.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

One thing that really stands out and needing attention, impact sounds. I'm not sure how true to life hearing bullet impacts is during a fire fight but it really adds another dimension of "we're getting heavily suppressed" when you can hear rounds hitting trees and rocks over the gunfire etc.

I agree. A mentioned before, impact sounds need to be more instant and harsh. As it stands, the impact sounds are current bound with this incoming sound. What I mean by this, is that before you hear a Klink, there is a zoom, or whizz sound, which should come from the bullet and not the impact sound itself. If you want to test this, spawn in, anywhere, and shoot something right next to you, or at close range. You will notice that it sounds like the bullet is taking longer than it should to reach something 6 or 20 feet away from you, because the impact is very quiet, and is not instantaneous. When you shoot objects in real life, the impacts are sudden thumps, bangs, gongs depending on what metal you hit, hollowness, and so on. It's also very loud and is one of the best suppressors in a PVP situation. Also, something Arma doesn't really have, is impact sounds for different sized rounds. The impact sounds as a whole should be looked at seriously if they want to make infantry combat more immersive.

[enex 11]

Wow, his sounds are amazing.

https://soundcloud.com/therecordist/ultimate-bullet-hd-pro

I would crap my pants and duck for cover if getting shot at in ARMA actually sounded like that.

Yeah I agree.If I wondered before how bullet whizz sounds like, this is the closest.

https://vimeo.com/48145150

Edited March 14, 2015 by enex

[Degman 73]

I dont know if anyone had noticed, but sounds are a waaay too silent. In reality you can hear a car incoming on 500-1000m, while in Arma 3 you can not hear it's engine when you stand next to it. BIS, can we expect some progress on this ?

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I dont know if anyone had noticed, but sounds are a waaay too silent. In reality you can hear a car incoming on 500-1000m, while in Arma 3 you can not hear it's engine when you stand next to it. BIS, can we expect some progress on this ?

You can hear a car from 1 kilometer away? You MUST have cyborg ears, and those cars where you live must have diesel engines with no mufflers on... That, or it's SUPER quiet where you live, and a few cars drive by at high speed. But a car sitting still, or driving around like normal in Arma shouldn't be heard from just under a mile away.

[Degman 73]

Arma 3 is mostly very quitet, as there is no urban life or anything, so you should hear everything well (when not in a battle). Meh, no cyborg ears are needed to hear a car on 500-1000m incoming (not talking about its engine sound, but distance sound). When u are close to a car, you normally should hear its engine, and on some cars engines are very loud.

Here's a little video of real M-ATVs:

When a M-ATV is passing near you in the Arma 3, it is silent like a ghost. You dont even know that it is there until you see it.

Edited March 14, 2015 by DegmanCRO

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Arma 3 is mostly very quitet, as there is no urban life or anything, so you should hear everything well (when not in a battle). Meh, no cyborg ears are needed to hear a car on 500-1000m incoming (not talking about its engine sound, but distance sound). When u are close to a car, you normally should hear its engine, and on some cars engines are very loud.

Here's a little video of real M-ATVs:

When a M-ATV is passing near you in the Arma 3, it is silent like a ghost. You dont even know that it is there until you see it.

Hmmm... I see what you mean now. but the 500-1000m meter's would be more of an ambient sound effect for vehicles. I actually had times where i was watching a checkpoint and i sensed a truck was coming, so i watched in that direction, low and behold, a Zamak came rolling around the corner. Though, if i remember correctly, in terms of distant vehicle sounds, Arma 2 maps had this car traffic like ambient sound in the environments effects.

[ceeeb 147]

Feedback tracker issue: 0010831: Sounds are inaudible over unrealistically short distances

Tyre noise is also very quiet in Arma. It should make up most of the sound coming from a vehicle travelling at speed. In real life, for civilian vehicles (including trucks), the tyres make more noise than the engine when travelling at 40-50 km/h (Reference). I assume wheeled military vehicles should be similar, as they have both noisier engines and tyres.

Edited March 21, 2015 by ceeeb

[nikiforos 450]

Really happy about the sound development of the game. I dare to say that we won't need any sound mods soon.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Really happy about the sound development of the game. I dare to say that we won't need any sound mods soon.

We won't need sound mods if they do it right. Last i heard, the sound overhaul only exists for infantry weapons. Which would be a shame, considering other sounds in the game could REALLY use some work. The most beautiful thing about the modding community is they pave the way for improvement. Take Laxemann for example, who created the best sound mod (in my opinion) in Arma's history. It doesn't even add sounds. It just creates 3D tails for the environment, and is compatible with EVERY map. If BIS made their tails 3D, it would be the best sound hands down, ever, and the modders who proved how damn well it worked and sounds, should deserve a medal of gold. The tails are great now, they're just... 2D per say. Also, all the DLC weapons sound awesome, tails included... Except for the Mar-10. The Mar-10 is like the child that didn't fully develop. It's supposed to have punch, it's a .338 DMR, but it sounds like... Idk. It doesn't sound very good at all. Needs work. I've hear a .338 rifle fire before, and it sounds big, tail included.

Edited March 15, 2015 by DarkSideSixOfficial

[megagoth1702 252]

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=23176

Please upvote this. This would make life so much easier. No more changing every single volume value.

[megagoth1702 252]

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=23181

Aaand this one as well.

[Fushko 59]

Reposting for visibility (reloading sounds not synchronized): http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=22990

[2nd ranger 282]

Tweaked: Silencer shot tails changed from prototype samples to final samples and other small changes

Suppressed MX shots are significantly louder on auto than on single. I think the single shot sample should have the volume raised to match the auto sample.

[megagoth1702 252]

Suppressed MX shots are significantly louder on auto than on single. I think the single shot sample should have the volume raised to match the auto sample.

Or rather the other way around - stop the loudness war and lower the volume of full auto to the single shot volume.

I can not test this right now but I think it's either a typo or the tails overlapping too much.