Audio Tweaking (dev branch)

[Kerc Kasha 102]

Noticed some sounds are heard with full soundlevel in cutscenes. e.g. if playing car alarm with carname say "AlarmCar"; - there is no distance fading.

'say' plays at the camera when using a camera, use say3d

[bigpickle 0]

So far, we're more confident about the 'weapon tails' improvements,

Can you explain what you mean by this? do you mean we the ability to add different sample tails to different environments? ie like woodland, urban etc if so how will that work from a script perspective ie will we be able to reference that information via the fired event handler?

[Brisse 78]

I'm sitting here right now listening to a fire fight between two rifle squads (NATO vs CSAT) watching from some distance through the eye of Zeus. Grenades going off in the distance sounded pretty good. Katiba is clearly attenuated. There is however some weirdness going on with the MX. I can hear that some of the shots from MX are attenuated and some are not. I don't know if it's random or if it's some of the MX variants that don't have the filter applied, but something is not right.

Sounds like it's a dynamic low band pass filter and some kind of frequency shift. Unlike sound mods, it is seamless. There are no clear distance boundaries where the sound changes. This is good :)

I also noted that the sonic cracks are back, and they are now positional. Sounds pretty good! They are even attenuated over distance!

Edited February 27, 2015 by Brisse

[Greenfist 1863]

Can you explain what you mean by this? do you mean we the ability to add different sample tails to different environments? ie like woodland, urban etc if so how will that work from a script perspective ie will we be able to reference that information via the fired event handler?

From the SITREP:

In simple (i.e., overly simplistic) terms, after the weapons audio samples overhaul (going live with 1.40), the team moved on to decoupling the 'shot' itself from the 'tail': an additional layer audible during and after discharging. For any given weapon, a number of 'tails' can be defined. The goal is to link the tail to environment within which the shot takes place. In effect, the 'tail' in a forest would sound different to that in an open meadow.

[Bouben 3]

If you're playing on Dev-Branch, you should now be able to test it out and offer up any feedback (with today's update).

Best,

RiE

Currently, it is in a state I was afraid it would be. The same samples just attenuated with a very simple LP filter applied to them. That is not how it works in real world and it is not how it sounds in real world. The filters cannot be uniform. There is a lot of non-linearities to distant sounds. Distant gun sounds have much more mid frequencies than it's currently in the game. There is also MUCH less bass frequencies in real world to distant gun sounds. There should also be an echo but I know the sound team said it will be implemented later. Also, echo cannot be uniform for all frequencies too as some of them will be absorbed much more quickly than others based on the environment. There should also be a very pronounced higer-mid frequency volume peak for distant gun shots.

Listen to BF3 or Half Life 2 distant gun shots to hear how it is done properly, yet in aesthetically pleasing way in a game. Real world footage is a more preferable source material though.

Now, I am not saying it is easy to do. I can imagine it must be super-difficult to program sounds in such way they behave like in real world. So every effort is valued but currently it sounds just bad and needs a lot of work.

Will hear what implemented echo tails do to the sounds once they are in the game.

[doosh 23]

Thank you for your feedback. This is the first approach which we consider to be an improvement of the existing state, because it affects all sounds not only weapons, where there was nothing before. You are right with the complexity of attenuation in real world, later there is a possibility to implement more sophisticated processing (http://www.persona.uk.com/barnfield/Core_docs/G/G7.pdf) (at least bass frequencies attenuation could happen sooner).

Currently, LP cutoff frequency is changing with distance non-linearly, and there is one more important thing to mention: as we are splitting "tails" and the actual "shot" sound, tails will be the exception for this attenuation filter, which will preserve all frequencies.

Edited February 27, 2015 by RoyaltyinExile

[Brisse 78]

As I said, I think a filter is the way to go. I don't agree with Bouben on this. I think Bouben is underestimating the filter. It's not "a very simple LP filter" we are talking about here.

The other way to do this is to have individual samples, like the sound mods out there do but that method has problems too. It's a hassle to make all those samples, and if an addon maker makes his own weapon sounds, it will be difficult to make those samples fit the soundscape of the rest of the game and other addons. Also, there are clear boundaries where you switch over from one sample to the other, when crossing the distance where the samples change. The filter method however is seamless. It changes dynamicaly to the range. Only way to do that with different samples is to have an infinite amount of samples, which of course, is not very practical.

Yes, the more complicated the filter gets, the more CPU power it will need, but todays CPU's can easily handle advanced sound processing. Having additional samples has a performance impact too you know...

[Bouben 3]

Thank you for your feedback. This is the first approach which we consider as an improvement, because it affects all sounds not only weapons, there was nothing before. You are right with the complexity of attenuation in real world, later there is a possibility to implement more sophisticated processing (http://www.persona.uk.com/barnfield/Core_docs/G/G7.pdf) (at least bass frequencies attenuation could happen sooner). Currently, LP cutoff frequency is changing with distance non-lineary and there is on more important thing to mention: As we are splitting "tails" and the actual "shot" sound, tails will be the exception for this attenuation filter which will preserve all frequencies.

Shouldn't the tail remain only part of its frequencies based on a distance? Shouldn't the relationship between frequencies of a tail change based on environment? Some of the frequencies should be absorbed even for tails depending where the "ear" is located in relation to the source sound (in front of or beyond the critical distance). But I am just speculating as sound design is only a free time hobby of mine which I don't know much about in the area of actual physics rules. There will be definitely a huge change with tails in the game as relationship between source sound and echo creates huge distance information for human brain.

I wish you success as this is an immense task from my point of view. So many calculations or clever workarounds will be needed. Oh and thank you for the papers. I will read it.

EDIT: If you implement the stuff in the papers, I will give you my deepest respect as this is currently beyond my brain capacity. So many factors...

---------- Post added at 18:38 ---------- Previous post was at 18:34 ----------

As I said, I think a filter is the way to go. I don't agree with Bouben on this. I think Bouben is underestimating the filter. It's not "a very simple LP filter" we are talking about here.

The other way to do this is to have individual samples, like the sound mods out there do but that method has problems too. It's a hassle to make all those samples, and if an addon maker makes his own weapon sounds, it will be difficult to make those samples fit the soundscape of the rest of the game and other addons. Also, there are clear boundaries where you switch over from one sample to the other, when crossing the distance where the samples change. The filter method however is seamless. It changes dynamicaly to the range. Only way to do that with different samples is to have an infinite amount of samples, which of course, is not very practical.

Yes, the more complicated the filter gets, the more CPU power it will need, but todays CPU's can easily handle advanced sound processing. Having additional samples has a performance impact too you know...

Sorry, but the current filter implementation is very simple. The more distant the more HF attenuated the sound becomes. That is a very basic and only partial implementation of how distant sounds behave. Filters are seamless but in real world there is an immense amount of filters and their relationships immensely complex. A filter is definitely better than no filter at all but that does not mean it is an implementation ready-to-go.

Also, there needs to be some algorithm (or workaround) calculating how long individual frequency bands will be as this is also a non-uniform thing in real world.

Also, additional samples are much more performance friendly than real-time filter calculations. Samplers have been always easier on HW than virtual synthesizers. Samplers need mainly RAM, but real-time audio processing needs CPU. But if BIS can manage to get believable effect from filters and other real-time calculations then it would be much better than samples of course. It would also be much more difficult to achieve as synthesis is a complex art.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Bouben

[Brisse 78]

So I was playing a little bit just now, and a Kajman approached my position. It sounded so mean and scary with the attenuation, that I had to come here and write about it! :D

That's another advantage of the filter method right there. It can be applied to any sound, not just weapons firing.

[Jona33 51]

Just to say the new reloading sounds are excellent, especially the slight clinking on Mk200 and Zafir (i.e. the belt fed weapons), I was thinking about this just the other day actually.

[Bouben 3]

So I was playing a little bit just now, and a Kajman approached my position. It sounded so mean and scary with the attenuation, that I had to come here and write about it! :D

That's another advantage of the filter method right there. It can be applied to any sound, not just weapons firing.

Yes, it is certainly more flexible.

[2nd ranger 282]

Listen to BF3 or Half Life 2 distant gun shots to hear how it is done properly, yet in aesthetically pleasing way in a game. Real world footage is a more preferable source material though.

Now, I am not saying it is easy to do. I can imagine it must be super-difficult to program sounds in such way they behave like in real world. So every effort is valued but currently it sounds just bad and needs a lot of work.

While I disagree that the current implementation is 'bad', I agree that it doesn't sound too realistic. Half-Life 2 was always my benchmark for good distance filtering and a generally immersive soundscape. But I'm very pleased that these features are being worked on and I look forward to seeing (hearing) it improve. Speaking of which; the MX shots and grenade explosion sounds don't seem to be filtered at all. Or if they are, it's nowhere near enough.

it affects all sounds not only weapons, where there was nothing before.

I just noticed that in certain circumstances, a player's own commands or combat shouts will be attenuated, making you sound like you're underwater or something. Oh, the same thing happens with your own footsteps too.

Something else -- the new Katiba reload sample makes it sound like you're dropping the mag rather than putting it into the gun. Like it slipped out of your hand and fell on the floor.

Edited February 27, 2015 by 2nd Ranger

[royaltyinexile 175]

the MX shots and grenade explosion sounds don't seem to be filtered at all. Or if they are, it's nowhere near enough.

True, this is a known issue - a misconfigured parameter snuck in - it should be fixed in a dev-update next week!

[supercereal4 29]

I just noticed that in certain circumstances, a player's own commands or combat shouts will be attenuated, making you sound like you're underwater or something. Oh, the same thing happens with your own footsteps too.

Good to see someone else noticed this too. I thought I had been going crazy.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Check the Rahim as well. Not sure if it's filtered either, can't be sure.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Good to see someone else noticed this too. I thought I had been going crazy.

Having the same issue here. Noticed it first when using co-axial MGs.

[supercereal4 29]

Something else -- the new Katiba reload sample makes it sound like you're dropping the mag rather than putting it into the gun. Like it slipped out of your hand and fell on the floor.

I respectfully disagree with this statement. At least, I don't think it resembles a magazine hitting the floor.

[DancZer 65]

I know nothing about sound configuration, but what i would do is: I would make some real world samples and tweek the game until it's almost identical. :o

[Bouben 3]

I know nothing about sound configuration, but what i would do is: I would make some real world samples and tweek the game until it's almost identical. :o

Yeah, nice one. It is not that easy unfortunately :)

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Yeah, nice one. It is not that easy unfortunately :)

Not impossible though. I'm currently watching a video at a shooting range, they're shooting .338. Right now they're having a conversation, and in the background, you hear sounds that Arma 3 is definitely missing. One of them being Soundscape, which, if true, is planned, and that's great. But what get's my attention besides that, is Impact sounds. The ones in Arma 3 currently sound, quiet, and almost not that threatening. I hear impacts in real life, in the distance, it sounds amazing, and at the same time gives you that feeling of not walking to be down range, obviously. Hehe.

More specifically put, Impact sounds need an overhaul too. They did crashing sounds for vehicles, which sound better. Bullet impact would be ideal, more spontaneous, instant ping's, and bang's, depending on what material the rounds are hitting.

[Bouben 3]

Not impossible though.

You simply can't have the whole game sample based if you want a believable experience in such huge and diverse environments as in Arma. You need real-time processing of the samples to do the trick. And programming and developing the processing needed is very close to actual scientific disciplines. Look at the papers here: http://www.persona.uk.com/barnfield/Core_docs/G/G7.pdf It is an extremely sophisticated area of development if meant to be done properly.

You can fake it with pure samples up to some point but it would show its weaknesses now and then.

Anyway, I agree the environment in Arma 3 is currently very dead and I will be glad for more ambient sounds in the game.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Bouben

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

You simply can't have the whole game sample based if you want a believable experience in such huge and diverse environments as in Arma. You need real-time processing of the samples to do the trick. And programming and developing the processing needed is very close to actual scientific disciplines. Look at the papers here: http://www.persona.uk.com/barnfield/Core_docs/G/G7.pdf It is an extremely sophisticated area of development if meant to be done properly.

You can fake it with pure samples up to some point but it would show its weaknesses now and then.

Anyway, I agree the environment in Arma 3 is currently very dead and I will be glad for more ambient sounds in the game.

Wow. I knew it took time, and tweaking, and experimenting samples, and such, but that brought a whole new level of detail to my attention. Interesting. =O

[Brisse 78]

DarkSideSixOfficial: That link was actually posted by a dev earlier, so now you know how seriously they take this matter :)

[CaptainObvious 95]

Had a quick test with my crippled rig earlier today, and wow, the soundscape sure has come a long way since IDK, a few weeks back, attenuation is quite nice already even in its WIP status.

I was especially impressed by the sound of the gunships, fuck those things sound scary nowdays! :butbut:

I'm eager to hear further improvements! :angel:

[Maxzy 12]

I like how you can hear Taru and Kajman 2 kilometres away. I like to place my self somewhere on the map and just listen to Kajman or Huron flying over my head at low altitude =). Surround works perfect. Every helicopter's flyby sounds stunning. I really like where all this sound stuff going. Excitefully awaiting furhter imrovements.