JUMP please!!

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Have you ever seen soldiers cartwheeling into battle?

Full body armour can weigh 20-30 kg, a helmet a couple more. Add to that spare ammo, rations, water, webbing, boots, rifle, sidearm, knife, grenades, radio, compass, bayonet, spare batteries, flashlight, chem light, first aid pouch, NV equipment, poncho, spare socks, spare undershirt, sleeping bag, gloves, maps, gps, knit cap, water purification, personal hygine kit, rope, sleeping pad, knee pads, elbow pads, NBC kit - depending on the plan and duration of the mission. While it varies with their responsibilities, the mission and its duration of mission Soldiers typically carry 25-50 kg (50-120 lbs) in the field. There is usually very little jumping an leaping typically done in the field of battle - just a lot of lumbering around.

SF squads who wear hardly any/no body armor, running lightened weapons and light loadouts, fast roping onto roofs, chasing tangos, etc. Just because it's a military simulator doesn't mean that every single dude on the battlefield has to be wearing a full 75 Lbs kit.

Today I was moving to enter a building. I shot the window out with a nade launcher. I ran up, and attempted to enter. I was blocked by a 4 inch rise from the ground to foundation. Vaulting over the threshold takes me a good two seconds and leaves me completely vulnerable while I derp around climbing these four inches. Jumping would allow me to move in naturally while maintaining tactical awareness and combat readiness.

Sure, jumping all over the place like a CoD idiot isn't realistic. But it's no more or less realistic than having to take a massive two steps over every little piece of junk in my way. With PhysX INF, there's no reason not to add a quick 6in-1ft jump animation to take care of these things.

Oh, and btw... It's routine for most State Law Enforcement Physical Tests to require a minimum high Jump. Tell me why my department requires it of me, if I'd never have jump in any tactical situation? (My state's requirements were recommended by our state's national guard)

[rye1 21]

On realism - Jumping from rooftop to rooftop occurred in Iraq for both insurgents and coalition soldiers. Reference David Finkel's "The Good Soldiers".

On use - Hardly any that I can see unless someone informs me. As stated if you give the general populace this option, there is room for abuse as seen in BF/COD/MOH.

[Guest]

seems like some "jump" resistant people in here.

Jumping is a physical movement that humans learn in their childhood and thus it is a must have. If jumping hight is determined by weight and fatigue than it will have a realistic output. If i have nearly no equipment on me then give me just one reason why i shouldn't be able to jump to my maximum achievable jump hight? I don't know in what kind of military you guys have been but we utilize not only vaulting but every god given option we have to be successfull and that includes even jumping.

If your type of realism is to stick to the ground then you should better stay at home. No offense but it's rediculous to say "no" to jump.

If you are going to compare to real life, no one jumps in real life like they do in games. What's needed, however, is a running vault. Like they have in i44. Stopping to do the slow vault is just (like is was in ArmA2) a deathwish while under fire. A climb would be cool, but it's not really necessary. The normal "FPS" jump is pretty stupid in this game's context and I doubt that it would even implement good.

Edit: Actually, climbing through windows would be great, and over low walls.

[ShadowPryde 10]

If you are going to compare to real life, no one jumps in real life like they do in games. What's needed, however, is a running vault. Like they have in i44. Stopping to do the slow vault is just (like is was in ArmA2) a deathwish while under fire. A climb would be cool, but it's not really necessary. The normal "FPS" jump is pretty stupid in this game's context and I doubt that it would even implement good.

Edit: Actually, climbing through windows would be great, and over low walls.

That's true. That's why i also mentioned that a jump feature has to be modified by a couple of factors. Just to add a jump feature that let's you jump 3 meters like in most FPS is also not what i would like to see.

I have to agree that it would be cool to climb through windows and over walls what would be really usefull. Same with the running vault. Those are vastly more needed than a pure jump feature.

[nodunit 397]

On realism - Jumping from rooftop to rooftop occurred in Iraq for both insurgents and coalition soldiers. Reference David Finkel's "The Good Soldiers".

On use - Hardly any that I can see unless someone informs me. As stated if you give the general populace this option, there is room for abuse as seen in BF/COD/MOH.

The funny thing is that BF2 counters bunny hopping and dolphin diving by not allowing you to fire the weapon while in air and to have a delay in being able to fire once you jump and then immediately prone, it also severely limited stamina so that you could be unable to sideways jump like a fuck repeatedly.

[ajsarge 10]

Jumping as is done in other FPS's is a silly idea IMO when it comes to Arma's movement system, and its depiction of soldier's realistic movement within the battlefield. Do soldiers have to move over objects or across gaps some times? Yes. Often? Questionable. Do they bunny hop over everything like some games depict? No. Thus, we have reason to implement a system that takes into account the possibility that we may need the movement options available to us, but without going overboard. This is all limited to waist-high objects only, and anything much larger (hood of a car, table, head-high wall with help) is more likely to require a climb action.

Running vaults have already been done in Arma 2. Take a look at some of Dslyecxi's videos on youtube to see ShackTac's version. With the current movement types in A3, I could see there being multiple vault or leap types implemented. The below is ordered by movement speed from slowest to fastest. Discussion is open to crouched versions, as all this relies on animations at middle standing position, or default for the proper speed.

Standing: Bunny Hop in-place. Maybe useful for peeking over that wall that's too high for even the VTall stance. Go grab a pair of 30-40lbs weights and try to jump with them. That's about as high as you're going to get.

Walk: Step-over. Pretty much what we have now, at a walking pace

Combat Walk: Step-over, with weapon up (currently implemented? I don't have the time to test it right now.)

Jog (Weapon Down): Slow to walking pace and step-over (currently implemented? I don't have the time to test it right now.)

Combat Run: Slight decrease in speed while stepping over obstacle (currently implemented? I don't have the time to test it right now.)

Run: Instead of slowing down, you leap over/across the obstacle ahead. Good for knee to near-waist-high objects, and small gaps. You can't immediately stop on the other side, but you will maintain your run speed if you keep moving. Uses a lot of stamina when executed. Hold V to prep, activated upon release unless Ctrl is held (to cancel the leap). The animation would be of stepping onto the object, modified to look something like a leap if there was no object there.

Sprint: Long leap, gets you over short objects or across decent gaps. Uses the most stamina, resulting in having to stop and "catch your breath" before your weapon sway is manageable. Farthest cool-down distance before you can stop, but sprint speed is mostly maintained and you can bound over further objects at the cost of more stamina per bound than an individual leap takes. Can be used to jump short building gaps. As with above, hold V to prep, and release when you want to leap. Tapping V before landing creates the bounding motion (repeatable, stamina cost per bound exponentially increases so you can only do 2-3 bounds before having to wait a long period for your stamina to return to normal), otherwise you have to press/release V to leap again (at individual stamina cost). Uses same animation idea as the run.

Like the melee/take-down thread, there's options in between keeping it at what we have now and going Quake style with bunny hopping and rocket jumping that some here believe is the end result of the "Jump" requests.

[ShadowPryde 10]

Why would we need jump? I still dont get any idea how it would be helpful. As stated it would most likely be abused by people trying to make Arma more like Cod/BF and used to bunny hop. We can vault over things in our path, so I fail to see the reason it would be needed. To me this is like the people saying that you can't sprint far enough in full gear.

To this statement-

"I had a situation where i had to drop my equipment and only hold on to my gun to gain agility and speed. That was a bloody life saver."

I would like to see more realism in movement, like you have to drop your ruck when you receive contact so you can move. From all the vets I have spoken with they always dropped their rucks so they could move easier when under fire.

And to the statement -

"No one will start to jump with an M60 in his hands and full backpack but without those i don't see any problem."

When would you use some thing like this in game? When you are back at base playing basket ball during down time? I rather see some type of climbing added before jumping, like for certain types of trees and other rare objects. Even then I think you would have to drop most of your gear.

Also if you could get some type of videos link where soldiers in combat are jumping for some purpose your idea might have more merit. This way others could see the value of having a system in place.

Just saying

You want so see some video that shows a real life combat situation where someone is jumping? And you think that we run around with a camera and post vids on youtube or somwhere else just for fun? I don't think anyone is that much borred with life during combat to actually make some video for the guys back home who just want to see someone jump. Also this situation is rarely seen but happens. And i doubt we can use military material just for fun. Atleast not this stuff i'm talking about.

But if it seems to be that easy for you then please release some "combat" footage from your military service on youtube.

Your wish holds not much sense in it.

[Nexerius 10]

No jumping, please.

But like in AC3 behind the scenes you can see a box around object that Connor has to do an animation (like under a toppled tree)

I think they should make something similar for arma 3, if you sprint, and press v close to it, you do something like you see in BF3

[rye1 21]

The funny thing is that BF2 counters bunny hopping and dolphin diving by not allowing you to fire the weapon while in air and to have a delay in being able to fire once you jump and then immediately prone, it also severely limited stamina so that you could be unable to sideways jump like a fuck repeatedly.

See that's a better work around and solution proposal than "JUMPING". :D

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Jumping is out but 'leaping' to cross gaps is OK with limitations? Hmm could possibly live with that idea.

[EDcase 87]

'No' to jumping but 'Yes' to to a faster vault when running.

Soldiers NEVER jump over obstacles but they can swing their legs over walls etc. (Has to be the right height of course)

To those who say, "I want to jump if I take my clothes off", sorry but BIS has more important things to do.

[NeMeSiS 11]

'No' to jumping but 'Yes' to to a faster vault when running.

That's in now, there seem to be 2 different vaulting animations depending on your speed. :)

[Jex 1]

There is nothing wrong with jumping in any game except it has been implemented incredibly poorly. If I were to run and jump, that would be fine. If i were to then try jumping immediately after, that would be difficult (think long jump) - whilst jumping I should not be able to fire - game devs think this mechanic is fine - it isn't it's ridiculous.

Turning speeds are the same...if you are running in one direction, you physically cannot do a 90 degree turn and run without loosing speed in another direction. Also you cannot instantly turn your body around and around and around

No game I know of has ever implemented a realistic body movement and Arma should be the first to do it. If it is done right, there isn't a problem - jumping is hated because it's done so stupidly and is exploited. Make the physical attributes apply to the avatar and slow things down when the body makes big changes.

[mrcash2009 0]

seems like some "jump" resistant people in here.

Search this topic in Arma2 forums and you will see how much support it got.

[joseph 1]

Well, what Arma3 needs is a vartiation on the vault. So if you take a run at it, you'd take a flying leap at it. This is preferable when under fire, cause it gets you over quickly. Joseph

[katipo66 94]

Anything that improves navigating the game world better must be a good thing? the ability too run non stop with full kit across the whole island is also unrealistic but its there for gameplay like a lot off other things including the ability to get wounds magically healed by a medic, of course no one wants the ability to bunny hop to become a reality In Arma but I'm sure most would like to be able to get over that fence that's just a bit to high to step over but would have no problem jump/vaulting over irl... Especially when under fire, anyway you never know, people here used to say no to ragdoll and physx for arma.

[Kodokai 10]

V is all you need. Jumping would be a waste of time and coding.

Vaulting is meant to replace jumping. Which it does.

It's awful, the animation takes around 2 seconds to complete & during that time you're locked out completely unable to do anything, if you could run upto an object using space or vault to hop over a small wall etc would be far better & less exposure.

[Japo32 17]

wow.. never thought this post had so succeed.

Ok... I am not refering to bunny hop, but jumps.. and you become tired because of that and cannot jump until you rest (I would like to see that option while running. Not only the sound of the breath).

People should not only think about ARMA3, but also other mods. If I could have jump in Dayz, where my bags and heavy are less than with military clothes, I could do much more things. Of course you jump more when running.. and I believe a soldier running like hell down hill could jump to safe his life agaist fires.

jump from roof to roof

jump to top of stone to see better

jump from stand behind a wall to see a moment what is behind. (or climb a little)

jump laterally to scape from fire to a corner

jump from road to side while a car is comming for you.

And all you could not imagine we could have in possible mods that for example one could make in a battle in a distance planet where the gravity would be less. Sounds like a joke but why cancel imagination while in the latest video Bohemia shows us what is ARMA3 they say all PC games should be like ARMA3 where the limit would be your imagination?

[BobcatBob 10]

Jumping that is realistic solves the problem by lurching your whole goddam body and weapon up into the sky as you do it, so you can't really hit anything at all until you have landed, and even then, if the landing is forcefull enough, you will need a second (for some crzy freerun type gymnastics jump 3-4 seconds even) to recover and there fore put your self at a stupid disadvantage in combat unless that jump takes you somewhere safer. So jumping should DEFINATLY be in if the devs are ready/able.

Also while we're reequesting movement mechanics, buddy boosting would be wonderful as well as ledge grab when hands are free.

[nodunit 397]

The funny thing is that I would actually be in favor of a jumping/climbing ability. V is nice for waist height objects but it doesn't perform the same function.

Take for example a map wherein you have multiple access routes to a single position, if you add say..a stack of boxes that you can climb or jump upon then that adds another flanking route, not only that but it also adds many more diverse options as far as modding goes, it really does have potential to be something great BUT it MUST be implemented in a fashion wherein jumping is ONLY used to gain access and NOT as a battle tactic. Forced weapon rest or completely no accuracy, secondly it would be nice if it were based upon the encumbered system because it would compliment the system quite well.

Not only would the amount of things you carry vary the distance and perhaps speed in which you can run but also the distance or height in which you can jump, which could lead to even more interesting scenario's. I was once so very opposed to the sheer notion, I thought that jumping ruined games after playing halo online, yet battlefield 2 showed me that jumping can still be used as a great means of navigation and access while penalizing you for trying to use it as a firing tactic to the point that it actually became more frustrating to jump unless you HAD to.

But again it MUST be done to compliment the encumbering system and it must be penalizing as a weapon tactic, when you think of things such as this you can't think of all the good things people will use it for but rather how they could try and stat kill, cheat and use it to break the game, so there must be penalties and severe ones.

Edited March 8, 2013 by NodUnit

[kireta21 13]

Yes, we could certainly use jump animation. It could simply replace basic step over animation when running, like one ShackTac made for ArmA2. Even fully geared you should be able to jump over obstacle you can walk over without risking your ballsack.

[Dallas 9]

ArmA isn't your generic FPS and let's not make it into one.

[MaceUK71 0]

Please god no.....

[keefehb 0]

ArmA isn't your generic FPS and let's not make it into one.

Exactly.

I'm not sure why everyone needs to jump around from rooftop to rooftop, kill people with knives and all the other insane suggestions that appear on here. I've been playing arma for years and could count on one hand the number of times I could of done any of these things.

[nodunit 397]

So are you just reading the small "no" responses then?

If Arma is about being a sandbox both gameplay and mod wise then that means expanding gameplay. The new fatigue systems offers a great opportunity for jumping to compliment it, opening a new venue and game style but not halo style.

Edited March 8, 2013 by NodUnit