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japo32

JUMP please!!

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Like I said "Look at combat videos from Afghanistan and Iraq for two days straight and count how many times you see professional soldiers jumping over/across something. The most you'll see is leaping across ditches and stepping/climbing over obstacles."

If you can't counter arguements without resorting to trolling without properly reading and understanding the posts of people you're trying to bash just don't bother. Also your first and third picture prove my point. Both are leaps (or vaulting as some might call it) rather than jumps because the distance is so small that both feet can be placed on both sides of the distances that needs to be covered at the same time. The second one is a "fun" picture which shows a clear alternative: Walk around the puddle rather than doing this showjump just because there's a camera present. Which is exactly my point: he is only doing the jumping for show rather than it being the most advantageous movement option.

An ex special force person, who is an official advisor of a game in development, said that during operations they used to jump all the time, in full gear, over dead bodies, and smaller obstacles and such.

Fact is, if you want to get over a smaller obstacle while running away from bad guys, you do not want to stop and "V" over it and than start running again, nuh-uh. Solution is, if you Turbo/Run "V" makes you leap (including over gaps, Run has a weaker leap due to less speed), at the slower paces you stop and step over the stuff like it is now. Very realistic and logical.

That's a different matter imo which is not actual jumping. The vault function before just wasn't dynamic enough like most other animations for that matter as well. "Vaulting" in the ArmA2 way had no momentum behind it.

Edited by JdB

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An ex special force person, who is an official advisor of a game in development, said that during operations they used to jump all the time, in full gear, over dead bodies, and smaller obstacles and such.

Fact is, if you want to get over a smaller obstacle while running away from bad guys, you do not want to stop and "V" over it and than start running again, nuh-uh. Solution is, if you Turbo/Run "V" makes you leap (including over gaps, Run has a weaker leap due to less speed), at the slower paces you stop and step over the stuff like it is now. Very realistic and logical.

Nail on the head. This is what I've tried to describe multiple times. People get so entrenched in their views their comprehension begins to suffer.

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Like I said "Look at combat videos from Afghanistan and Iraq for two days straight and count how many times you see professional soldiers jumping over/across something. The most you'll see is leaping across ditches and stepping/climbing over obstacles."

I've seen enough of such vids one liveleak and guess what; I don't remember one. Is it valid argument against jump in ArmA? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure you don't monitor movement of all soldiers around the world 24/7. So in reality if there's some hole or some other obstacle that requires jump or long walk around, the soldiers, not actually in combat (as opposed to the videos you're talking about), may very well just jump over it because they're no pussies. That's real life. Just face it. Your whole argument is driven by distaste of CoD-like games which have nothing to do with causal jumping that soldiers do IRL.

If you can't counter arguements without resorting to trolling without properly reading and understanding the posts of people you're trying to bash just don't bother.

Of course, if I don't share your opinion I must be trolling.

Also your first and third picture prove my point. Both are leaps (or vaulting as some might call it) rather than jumps because the distance is so small that both feet can be placed on both sides of the distances that needs to be covered at the same time.

OK, I agree. What if the brook will be a little bit wider?

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OK, I agree. What if the brook will be a little bit wider?

You'd fall in if you tried to jump. At best you'd hit the opposite bank which would likely not support the impact, then you'd fall in.

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You'd fall in if you tried to jump. At best you'd hit the opposite bank which would likely not support the impact, then you'd fall in.

Which in real life could mean breaking something, getting vital equipment like weapons waterlogged, creating a disturbance which aids detection by the enemy etc. If the body of water is shallow you wade through it, if it is too deep you either find another way or get something to float across with. If there is more than a bodylength (legs stretched out without straining anything) it is not advisable to jump with a full combat load. Bunnyhopping across a body of water is generally not recommened unless it's a really shallow body like a brook with rocks sticking out of the water and again that would be broken down into smaller steps which is an expansion or refining of the vault option at best. Anything smaller is a puddle or ditch which again is vaulted/leaped across and not jumped, for which a function already exists. It would mean adding a new feature for a niche application. Vaulting deals with 95% of the needs since most distances are so small that one of either feet is always going to have contact with the ground while the other is momentarily in the air. Like the ditch and zodiac pictures that were posted show. A feature that would be much more useful than jumping imo would be the ability to climb over obstables like walls and fences.

Of course, if I don't share your opinion I must be trolling.

I don't consider posting real life pictures with comments about BF3 and CoD as disagreeing but rather belitteling since the comments serve no factual purpose nor are they a representation of what is depicted on the pictures. None of the comments accompanying these pictures were in any way an adult manner of conveying your actual opinion on the matter. So their sole purpose was bashing a specific poster which is trolling.

Edited by JdB

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Nail on the head. This is what I've tried to describe multiple times. People get so entrenched in their views their comprehension begins to suffer.

Really hoping you were not referring to me.

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An ex special force person, who is an official advisor of a game in development, said that during operations they used to jump all the time, in full gear, over dead bodies, and smaller obstacles and such.

Fact is, if you want to get over a smaller obstacle while running away from bad guys, you do not want to stop and "V" over it and than start running again, nuh-uh. Solution is, if you Turbo/Run "V" makes you leap (including over gaps, Run has a weaker leap due to less speed), at the slower paces you stop and step over the stuff like it is now. Very realistic and logical.

Hello Sir, Psychomorph - one of the people I can agree with on the BISF.

Why? He actually looks into the realm of possibility.

JdB if we're talking the reality of the fact, then I'd agree that it is a rare event. I'd agree that it's therefore limited to application and in return implementation. But, don't be dogmatic - it has happened and will continue, in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Do not be conceptually challenged. I'd also agree with you that for "ARMA implementation" it would have to be limited, player centric if you will and with many barriers to prevent abuse. You cannot back-up your claim with videos my man. I could tell you to look up things you will not see either, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I think the jumping discussion was instantly flawed without proof of concept or clear arguments, leaving many avenues of approach to the said discussion. :) I think looking more deeply into vaulting would be the focus right now.

Back to Psychomorph.

This is such a good point. Obstacle negotiation in ARMA is fairly limited, do you agree? Let me discuss:

You come across a mixture of obstacle shapes and sizes. For purpose of demonstration and ease, we'll base them off size.

Small. What's that? A under knee-height rock, a gap of about 5 inches, you get what I mean. Can we negotiate that? Yeah. We can step over the rock, most of them you can simply walk over so what's the problem? Well. Vertical gaps cannot be negotiated, clipping tends to occur and then you need to VAULT.

An example is seen with the "full-frontal glass" building in ARMA 3. In certain locations you can shoot out the left pane of glass and try walk through only to get stuck on a 3 inch vertical lip. If we naturally stepped over that would be great, unfortunately the engine won't allow this to my knowledge and context sensitive approaches would just be like a "vault" animation made quicker needing player input - useless for some situations, good for some.

If we look at medium sized objects, in reality you can jump on and off, step over, move around, you have optionality available but again in ARMA you have one option: Move around it. As seen with their static doors, this causes many problems. You cannot run the door to the wall for example and therefore have to step around, causing clipping issues and issues with players trying to get through around the same time.

If we look at high obstacles, we don't need to naturally duck them because we have crouch. That's a player option right there in front of them for them to make their own decisions and be responsible. If we look at this in the vault capacity there's room for improvement. It's a large object it's designed deal with, it's slow. Maybe they should make gradients of a vault, one for certain object heights? I don't know, just throwing out ideas.

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Adding to the arguments of the Pro Jump/Running Vault (some kind of movement involving your feet leaving the ground)...

Lets be serious. In Urban Combat, on top of houses, will you really say to yourself "Okay... Well, I could always just go down onto the ground, break into the next house, get up the stairs, and repeat that movement." Or... "I'll step two feet into the air to cross a one foot obstacle."

Heck, In TLR, I could have used that so many times on Rasman it validates the need.

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jump? if realistic it wont be that high.

but a vault, like over a lowish wall? now that'd be sooo useful.

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If anyone has seen the newest DayZ SA devblog, they implemented something I'd like to see ported over to arma 3. Sure you wont be doing Michael Jordan like jumps in full battlegear, but you can certainly jump 2 feet across a small gap.

I like the idea that pressing 'V' while sprinting you can vault over small gaps and obstacles.

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There are plenty of rocks on Stratis that I wish I could have leapt across to. So small appropriate leaps, and low-level scrambling over low obstacles would be good.

Answer seems simple: step over while walking = step over, step over while running = small leap.

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Ill be happy with just V for valuting . Jump would be nice but rather have other things instead.

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No to jumping.

Yes to climbing.

My sentiments exactly. Very little need for jumping and very little purpose in a simulation, climbing on the other hand would be a realistic addition... I'm just grateful I don't have to handle the animation :D

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As a long time opponent of Jumping, a run then vault option would be nice, but I can live with out it. Most of the buildings aren't close enough together, so there would be a fairly limited use as is.

I hate Bunny Hoping, so I do want something like a run and vault. One thing I hate about BF3 is bunny hoping exists. Sure you cant shoot while you do it, but its still a bitch to shoot people who do it and dolphin dive.

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Or just simply prevent player from firing when jumping?

How to avoid abuse? Using realism. Realistic jump will get you maybe 50cm up. Animation showing player lowering his stance a little to gain vertical speed will make it impossible to dodge bullets this way (much less than strafing) and will prevent quake-style "insta-jumps" when standing (you need momentum first if you want to defy gravity, right?).

If that's too much alien we can always setle with something like this:

That's the way it should be done, someone said there's already a running vault animation in Arma 3 so hopefully it gets implemented.

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Making climb/jump animation is not a big deal at all. Making it work, now thats a different story.

Vault(jump) animation awaits the ones who can find it and reimplement it :)

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Day jump gets added is the day I stop playing Arma. Why can't the COD players stay with COD instead of trying to ruin the only milsim we have left.

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lol..no..

i hate jumping in all fps games..

*getting shot*

"oh i know, JUMP JUMP JUMP, you can't hit me~~~!"

*hops away*

but having jump as a hidden function is good, future mods and whatnot..

oh..what about civilians? they should be able to jump without equipment load! (pretty sure combat units with gear load still can jump..or else they are pretty unfit for combat situations..but it's not really useful since you can only jump sooo little with gears..)

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Making climb/jump animation is not a big deal at all. Making it work, now thats a different story.

Vault(jump) animation awaits the ones who can find it and reimplement it :)

I thought it would be challenging to make climb animations that look "correct" with obstacles of all different shapes and sizes - I had visions of hand hold animations in thin air etc.. I'm glad I was wrong, maybe there is hope!

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This is a Military SIMULATION and u have to climb over things and jump aswell. U cant afford sometimes just to press V to pass a little obstacle. Sometimes its anoying because 1. the animation S...ks and 2. its basic for the military to jump and climb over things. e.g, just look at the army, they doing parkour to pass the obstacles infront of them and all the stuff to become a soldier. there u have it! well if a game says its a Simulation, so i would except from a game like this to have this 2 things. and in my opinion just to press "V" is a lame excuse... because its soooo sloowww..:j:

Edited by blu3_l1on

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I agree, vaulting is good enough. If not, then it should be improved. If jumping were ever implemented, it should be a realistic short jump that varies depending on the equipment heaviness.

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This is a Military SIMULATION and u have to climb over things and jump aswell. U cant afford sometimes just to press V to pass a little obstacle. Sometimes its anoying because 1. the animation S...ks and 2. its basic for the military to jump and climb over things. e.g, just look at the army, they doing parkour to pass the obstacles infront of them and all the stuff to become a soldier. there u have it! well if a game says its a Simulation, so i would except from a game like this to have this 2 things. and in my opinion just to press "V" is a lame excuse... because its soooo sloowww..:j:

Parkour? In the Army? When did this happen?

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I actually like that there's not a jump. I've played games where everyone is running sideways in circles while jumping three feet in the air continuously, and it's a sure way to guarantee that I find some other game to spend my money on.

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People didn't even bhop in cod or BF, it was suicide to do so unless you were facing incompetents, if you weren't so xenophobic of other games and came out of the hobbit hole from time to time.

Bhopping was from older game engines quake/tribes etc where you could preserve and build up momentum by jumping. Arma 3 has improved the clunklyness somewhat but that vault animation is still some of that remaining clunk.

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