Is Modding Disabled?

[jblackrupert 14]

Great game or not, Developer treating customers like children who can't handle a few Swastikas on Uniforms won't be seeing my money.

[max power 21]

Great game or not, Developer treating customers like children who can't handle a few Swastikas on Uniforms won't be seeing my money.

That's not an accurate description of the situation, jblackrupert. Complying with German law is not treating your customers like children.

[jblackrupert 14]

That's not an accurate description of the situation, jblackrupert. Complying with German law is not treating your customers like children.

German law applies to the retail game. Not user made addons

[max power 21]

Right, but if they are releasing it themselves then the law might be applicable to them as a retail thing. You can't make a MLP game, get it rated, and then suddenly release the swastika fan pack that puts all kinds of swastikas and exploding heads into it.

If they are not giving their fanbase enough credit in some area, I don't think it has anything directly to do with swastikas.

[jblackrupert 14]

The rules state that modders cannot made addons or mod using banned symbols.

Anyhoo, the servers are virtually empty and what servers are populated are overrun with hackers

that with the heavy handed addon/mod rules and requirements........ I give the game 6 months before it tanks.

[[aps]gnat 28]

.......... MP, are you a paid spokesperson or something?

Seems you have to defend against ANY view/every post that swings the other way.

The BIS success formula is WELL understood by this community. As modders/addon makers themselves, seems to me the IF team have little excuse for flying in its face.

Complying with German law

Pure smokescreen.

[max power 21]

I think you're misinterpretting what I'm saying, Gnat.

I'm against jbr saying that they are treating their customer base like children based on his criticism of the swastika situation for the following reasons:

IL2 was an international game made in europe and could contain no banned symbols either.

In my understanding, the devs have to encorperate mods into the game at least partially themselves, or at least green light them.

The situation of material generated by the dev team vs. material approved by the dev team seems to lack definition.

I am not countering every complaint. If you read the actual thread, you would see that. I'm against people freaking out and lighting their hair on fire, and running around yelling about how the devs are abusing the community, just like I would be against someone saying those things about YOU based on the same premises. The fact remains that modding is restricted. To me, as a mod maker, the 'hoops' you have to 'jump through' don't seem all that severe. But, to other people, maybe it's too much. Yelling and screaming about the problems without actually addressing the points raised in the address is emotionalism, it's rumour spreading, and I think that it would be unfortunate of other people forewent a game they would normally enjoy because someone was ranting and raving in a forum. jbr is the perfect posterboy for this, in this instance, with his little rant about the devs basically patronizing the community because they can't approve banned symbols, and mods must be approved. That conclusion is not supported by any of the information. If you don't like a game with nazis but without swastikas, that's fine. Post your opinion. Just don't make some frankly stupid rant based on some emotionalistic shortcut to thinking. I don't think that's fair, and I don't think that that deserves existing without being challenged.

[therussiandong 10]

Gnat;2163167'].......... MP' date=' are you a paid spokesperson or something?

Seems you have to defend against ANY view/every post that swings the other way.

The BIS success formula is WELL understood by this community. As modders/addon makers themselves, seems to me the IF team have little excuse for flying in its face.

Pure smokescreen.[/quote']

I'm starting the think the same about KBourne...

[NoRailgunner 0]

Maybe this is a agreement between IF:Lib44 devs and their publisher DeepSilver? Why should a publisher refuse to make profit with further addons/DLC'S? Btw German law is strictly against using swastikas and banned symbols especially if they can/will be used to glorify fascist movement, NS regime + crime and their military.

[majoris 10]

German law applies to the retail game. Not user made addons

I'm an American living here in Germany (non-military; civilian residency), so I'm forced to buy "censored" versions of any game over here. I'd love to ask a lawyer whether mods/addons are included with the censorship but I think it'd raise some eyebrows :j:

I'd be satisfied just being able to mod the game for my own private use. It's a shame we'll never see mods like ASR_AI, WarFX, etc.. ported over though.

Edited June 4, 2012 by majoris

[jblackrupert 14]

I'm an American living here in Germany (non-military; civilian residency), so I'm forced to buy "censored" versions of any game over here. I'd love to ask a lawyer whether mods/addons are included with the censorship but I think it'd raise some eyebrows :j: .

I'm pretty sure the German laws are like NoRailgunner described. The reason why you are including those symbols is the concern...... Glorifying the Reich.. Hitler....etc.

My issue is with with the developers telling addon/mod makers they are not allowed to put them in regardless of which country they live in.

The game was marketed heavily to the Arma and Red Orchestra crowd.

if they planned all along to censor and dictate which addons and mods can be made and who can make them they should have been up front about that in the beginning

the reason I suspect they didn't is they knew full well it would have effected sales.

As for MP calling me the poster boy for rants about it. I'm not the only one complaining. It was someone else who pointed out the banned symbols not being allowed.

[Defunkt 431]

Seems to me the IF team have their hands tied. If they must vet/sign/distribute the content (because of their agreement with BIS) then they're going to have to observe applicable statutes or not market that product in Germany.

If I was inclined to take issue it would be with the terms BIS have imposed. It is already the case that available tools *could* be used to perform unsanctioned ports (OA content to A2 for instance) but this is successfully policed by BIS and the community without resorting to enforced signature checks using only the developer's key.

[[aps]gnat 28]

@PM - fair enough

@recent posters.

I believe the same rules apply to AWAR/IF team as applies to BIS.

If they only provide platform and THEIR content, and DON'T specifically approve user made content, they can't be held responsible for that content or its use.

Not controlling its content nor distribution allows such.

Same as a provider of a cell phone or the phones OS can't be held responsible if someone uses it for bad or offensive software/apps. (Or road-side bombs)!

Personally I think the IF team tripped up / out-smarted themselves by changing (away from the universal BIS tools) file extension references etc. They could potentially have their sticky fingers stuck if they later try to distance themself from "unarthorised" user made content (but again, how likely is that?! ).

Not that thats going to stop people making tools to "beat" whatever system they customised.

[hellfire257 3]

You're right about the hoops thing, Max. For someone like me who maybe only wants to change a handful of config entries, the hoops are disproportional the to the outcome of the changes. To be short, it isn't worth my time. My time would be much better spent playing around with ARMA than IF.

Of course though, this is all speculation until we have further details.

[max power 21]

And that, I think, is a fair criticism, and I think it's an issue that needs addressing.

I hope that my point of view is clear now. I'm not against criticism. I'm against a forum drama shit show.

[dragula 12]

Now was not going to post here but I am amaze, this post is not close like mine was. what do German law against using swastikas and banned symbols, Have to do with the Tread IS MODDING DISABLED?

[max power 21]

I guess you'll have to read the thread to find out.

[dragula 12]

I did read thread thank you. still don't see what got to do with Modding Disabled, Loading and tool's.

[max power 21]

Well, I don't know what to tell you, then.

edit: Ok. The current thinking is this:

IF must approve all mods.

IF stated that mods must not have 'banned symbols'.

Mods with 'banned symbols' will not be approved.

Therefore, mods can not include banned symbols.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Max Power

[dragula 12]

The forcing of Gemany's pathetic censorship laws on people is good enough for me to say. No sale.

The servers are all pretty much empty from what I've seen on checking it out on a couple of my friends system who bought it.

it all started at this post that came out of the sky. then the thread should be "mods can not include banned symbols" or German Law on mod some thing in that way.:j:

[max power 21]

No, this thread is about modding restrictions. This is one facet of those restrictions, which was mentioned in the IF team's document on mod making. Perhaps you should read that as well, since this thread is essentially about that document.

[lexx 1391]

Nazi symbols is a pretty stupid argument. After all, you could add swastika and stuff into any game and would produce pretty much the same situation. Just because IF is a WW2 game, doesn't mean it is a special case.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Its simple - DeepSilver/Koch Media is a german label/publisher = they have to obey german laws. Now back to possible modding, config and other changes in IF:Lib1944 and what would be ok for both sides. Perhaps someone from X1 Software/AWAR can say something more about it? :)

[dragula 12]

well I read it The only place Germany is stated is in the Address of the software company, That is Koch Media. what address is base in Germany. Now we can say the software company is German, knowing that I say this game is cover under german law.

It has nothing to do with modding it where the game company making team is The Koch Media Team. So any one who not have the document knows. Also it state it may give certain individuals Epilepsy, That mean no Epilepsy fliter, That crash your game

Some thing when I live in Germany. Toy Airfix boxs had those marks blacken out' It a big thing in germany. I know kiss poster was Banned too.

sorry

noRailgunner you beat me to it. lol

---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 ----------

As I post before there no CBA for loading Mods. Till there is one out we may have to wait for modding.

[Herbal Influence 10]

In the US even Mark Twains "Huckleberry Finn" and "Tom Sawyer" were banned in some public libraries.

They would badly guide i.e. mislead youngsters ....

So calm down, the German Holocaust is indeed a unique thing one should be able to respect. "Able", I call it. It's an ability to take other peoples feeling into account.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Herbal Influence