Operation E3

[tremanarch 6]

yes

..

(just declining your rhetorical question)

[dm 9]

So just moving and driving for 10 minutes before even getting to proper combat is OK for E3

Since said movement was meant to demonstrate new anims and physics, I'm going to go with "yes"

[nodunit 397]

In Gamer standards you are a freak. (me too)

Faster, harder, retard gamers every where, if you cant quick scope 360 in akimbo style a game is not cool, and pations dose not exist.

Normal Gamers are hamsters on speed rushing and gunning the shit out of every thing that moves, siting in one place not shooting for more than 5 min.

May god have mercy on our souls 1 hour, will end in a biblical team kill fest.

Saddly so true, out of my circle of friends only a small percentage have the "so difficult it keeps you coming back for more" mentality in taking on challenges. Most get fed up after one or two deaths and look at me strange when I sit quietly after seven tries and still manage to keep a straight face. But it's all in mentality, some feel that combat should be the climax of preperation whereas others feel it should be the norm.

Should put that to the test sometime..see how many times they try to get past that first jump in mario brothers with no mention of momentum..hehehhe

[Booster 1]

So just moving and driving for 10 minutes before even getting to proper combat is OK for E3 - but not a 3-4 minutes long gun-fight where AI acts somewhat intelligently (how it is in ArmA2 with 5v5 actually)?

I know how to tweak the AI to become extremely lethal, shoot the wings off a fly with an AK at 500 metres lethal, and I'm practically computer illiterate, so obviously the developers could have done the same for E3, but it wouldn't have been practical because they need to showcase as much of the game as possible in a limited timeframe.

[Vixente 10]

The game is not finished, ffs.

[froggyluv 2136]

The game is not finished, ffs.

True although I think everyone has they're own expectations of what they want to see according to their primary wishes for the next chapter. For myself, and a few others it seems, AI is crucial to their gameplay experience as outside of PvP -the whole game revolves around either fighting a semi-believabe, semi effective AI or not.

Call me jaded but Ive seen these discussions many times before when a game gets its first public reveal with the standard "The games not finished! They probably dumbed down the AI for the casual fans" etc.. The problem is that I don't ever recall a case of that actually being true -generally the AI we see is the one we get with maybe some slight improvements.

[metalcraze 290]

I just wonder how many people saying "it's just for E3 purposes!" are secretly BIS devs? You seem to know for a fact what BIS did to E3 demo.

I mean I guess infantry firefight was just to show graphics and not how an infantry firefight is in ArmA3. It's so obvious - silly me.

[tremanarch 6]

im already too drunk to discuss this here, but in armas case, the old ai just can be taken for arma 3, so the new ai is just for the newcomers. Why doesnt this make sense? And for the campaign I would rather see some dumbed down AI - as Campaign is for me like sight seeing, like a tutorial. Then for serious AI Action (Multiplayer / Editor) they could fall back to the old routines of ArmA II.. why shouldnt this be possible? And with all this AI Mods already out for ArmA II, I doubt there wont be some for ArmA III aswell...

[LeeManatee 4]

actually

the biggest dissapontment so far is speed with riffle up. (way too fast) it will end up as run&gun game if it would not get changed.

with speed like that there is no need in any tactic approaches. you just run and gun. hello cod/bf

i sirencely hope that developers will change it.

second major dissapointment in line is overused blood sprites.

rest seems alright.

Edited June 8, 2012 by n7snk

[metalcraze 290]

im already too drunk to discuss this here, but in armas case, the old ai just can be taken for arma 3, so the new ai is just for the newcomers.

So you ARE a BIS dev? Can you tell me about AI for "veterans" then?

I guess it's ok for "AI for newcomers" to shoot off rotors from choppers 100m above ground and snipe co-pilots?

And for the campaign I would rather see some dumbed down AI - as Campaign is for me like sight seeing, like a tutorial.

There's so much wrong with this sentence it makes my brain hurt. And I was one of people who said DayZ players weren't the problem...

Edited June 8, 2012 by metalcraze

[Kindling 1]

So just moving and driving for 10 minutes before even getting to proper combat is OK for E3 - but not a 3-4 minutes long gun-fight where AI acts somewhat intelligently (how it is in ArmA2 with 5v5 actually)?

I know how to tweak the AI to become extremely lethal, shoot the wings off a fly with an AK at 500 metres lethal, and I'm practically computer illiterate, so obviously the developers could have done the same for E3, but it wouldn't have been practical because they need to showcase as much of the game as possible in a limited timeframe.

Tweaking numbers in configuration files is polish, usually done at the last minute or with the first patch. Note that BiS were focusing their demo on the technical aspects of the engine (underwater, ragdolls and IR sights) rather than on the gameplay itself. Even then, developers aren't necessarily enthusiast professional-level players, nor are the industry journalists watching the stream that may assume that an AI shooting the wings off a fly with an AK at 500 meters is somehow imbalanced against the player.

EDIT: Note that this build is pre-Alpha, as in not released even as a 'community alpha', yet - pay particular focus to unit testing, which is the concept (or a form of the concept) being explored in these builds.

EDIT2: Meant to quote parent and reiterate Booster's point.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Kindling

[Booster 1]

I mean I guess infantry firefight was just to show graphics and not how an infantry firefight is in ArmA3.

What exactly were you expecting to see? The only solution I have ever known for making the enemy AI truly hardcore is to change skill and precision settings to max, were you honestly expecting them to behave like human players?

[mondkalb 1087]

I just wonder how many people saying "it's just for E3 purposes!" are secretly BIS devs?

[tremanarch 6]

So you ARE a BIS dev? Can you tell me about AI for "veterans" then?

There's so much wrong with this sentence it makes my brain hurt. And I was one of people who said DayZ players weren't the problem...

haha im no dayz player ^^ maybe i played ofp before you :) i played since the demo came out and bought it the other day!!! but i can has another opinion than you? maybe? yes? but yeah i wouldnt count me to the vets - i am more of a casual. but im intelligent and can see it through both eyes there :)

cmon lets btt pls

Edited June 8, 2012 by tremanarch

[Tonci87 163]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/21703326.jpg

Oh Shit...

[roberthammer 582]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/21703326.jpg

[alx 20]

If you recall the development videos for Arma2 (or was it arma?), the rifles came up into position instantly. There were howls of protest on the forums about how unrealistic this was. Of course it was just the alpha status of the software and the final product was fine. So I agree with many that the movement of the soldiers appears to be too quick, but I strongly suspect it's just a "place holder" at the moment and it will be tweaked appropriately for release.

[metalcraze 290]

snip

So you played OFP, the only game from BIS that ever had a good full campaign, with every single campaign past that point being nothing but sight-seeing and you still want a campaign about sight-seeing (which is best done in editor anyway)?

OK.

snip

I know. I just hope they are not the ones telling me that campaign should have dumbed down AI and sight-seeing lol.

Edited June 8, 2012 by metalcraze

[mr.g-c 6]

actually

the biggest dissapontment so far is speed with riffle up. (way too fast) it will end up as run&gun game if it would not get changed.

with speed like that there is no need in any tactic approaches. you just run and gun. hello cod/bf

i sirencely hope that developers will change it.

I made a ticket about to vote for it here:

https://dev-heaven.net/issues/30718

However there was a statement lately, either in an interview with Ivan Buchta or in a Dev-Blog were BIS was stating that they were "Upscaling jogging speeds to 22km/h and other stances upscaled to other speeds because the player demands that and would complain that the game would be to slow if it were realistic".

Now if you know me, i totally disagree with that. How about just design missions then different. There are Vehicles and so on. If i remember back to OFP, where soldiers were slower (and realistic) it was fun to look and search around for a vehicle everytime when you were stranded somewhere. Sure it added to the difficulty so you can't run from one side of the island to another in a few minutes, but it was better that way.

[CCWashout 10]

It takes me less than a second to raise and sight a SCAR-L with a non-magnified red dot or Eotech 552 and only a little bit longer with an Elcan Specter at 4x or Acog and that's with or without EGLM attached - the speed of the rifles is just fine in the demo IMHO

[metalcraze 290]

"Upscaling jogging speeds to 22km/h and other stances upscaled to other speeds because the player demands that and would complain that the game would be to slow if it were realistic"

You must be joking right?

[mr.g-c 6]

No really, im dead serious f*ck... I knew the first people not believing me would post up... Now i must find that thing to prove i'm right... Arghhh... Another hour wasted... Do you have the link with the Interview with Ivan Buchta lately by a czech game magazine? I think it was in there. It was a video on YT.

[NoRailgunner 0]

How long until A3 goes gold? Now hope for the best....triple checktest before release ;)

[nodunit 397]

I made a ticket about to vote for it here:

https://dev-heaven.net/issues/30718

However there was a statement lately, either in an interview with Ivan Buchta or in a Dev-Blog were BIS was stating that they were "Upscaling jogging speeds to 22km/h and other stances upscaled to other speeds because the player demands that and would complain that the game would be to slow if it were realistic".

Now if you know me, i totally disagree with that. How about just design missions then different. There are Vehicles and so on. If i remember back to OFP, where soldiers were slower (and realistic) it was fun to look and search around for a vehicle everytime when you were stranded somewhere. Sure it added to the difficulty so you can't run from one side of the island to another in a few minutes, but it was better that way.

Infantry, the slowest but most rugged fighting force of all military's, capable of going where others cannot and operating in spaces nothing else can.. Yeah I liked the slow pace of OFP, it felt vulnerable and very human..while I love the new animations and the reaction time, the running seems a bit quicker than norm but that could be due to carrying less than full gear? I don't know.

Harsh as this is going to sound..screw the people that complain, if Arma is to be prided as a game where war is less glorified then the fact that it takes FOREVER to get anywhere on foot should be taken into account.

Furthermore this also effects other combat mechanics. infantry vs vehicles are effected as well, and don't give me some bullshit about vehicles being overpowered. You're supposed to brown your pants when you hear much less see a tank on foot, not think "Sweet a quick kill!" where you can grab an AT launcher and run around like an athlete diving into cover.

Edited June 8, 2012 by NodUnit

[Booster 1]

However there was a statement lately, either in an interview with Ivan Buchta or in a Dev-Blog were BIS was stating that they were "Upscaling jogging speeds to 22km/h and other stances upscaled to other speeds because the player demands that and would complain that the game would be to slow if it were realistic".

Contradictory info from Jay starting @7:05

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