Operation E3

[roberthammer 582]

There were unsuccessful attempts with motion captured reloads, but in the end all reload anims are handmade. There will be lot of them, and sometimes one reload animation fits multiple weapons, so you have some chance right there. There will still be the magic handwave Arma2 style reload anim available, so in worst case you can use that (if you do some totally exotic weapon)

Hmm ok ,but what about to able to create own handmade custom reload animations?

[On_Sabbatical 11]

I'm really interested in knowing what BIS did for "TAB" issue ... any alternatives,do we have to expect something like what Mandoble did with his mod ?

[metalcraze 290]

Metalcraze, I would, in fact, setup very dumb-o AI just for the herpaderps that would be playing on E3 - this is a wise thing to do for people who have been exposed to ADD COD their whole life and coming out of withdrawal. :icon_twisted:

So hush it, Jay Crowe said they've optimised the cover-finding algos, so it must be true. ;)

Well need to see to believe. There was one thing though that seemed interesting. Were 2 last AIs just being there or were they mounting the mortar - as in previous games? Because if it was the latter case that means AI finally can leave static weapons and try to defend themselves which would be an improvement actually

[maturin 12]

Metalcraze, I would, in fact, setup very dumb-o AI just for the herpaderps that would be playing on E3 - this is a wise thing to do for people who have been exposed to ADD COD their whole life and coming out of withdrawal. :icon_twisted:

Not sure I think it's a good idea, though.

CoD popup target AI looks intelligent and human, while actually being stupid and easy to kill. Low skill ArmA AI looks moronic and robotic, so if they're easy you just get the worst of both worlds.

Those playthrough videos don't look remotely fun or interesting. The gameplay is rather characterless. Easy ArmA is not good ArmA.

I think the best advertisement for ArmA 3 could be gorgeous graphics and detailed, smooth character handling (check), then a few simple firefights that absolutely massacre you until you crawl home to the Blops booth with tears running down your cheeks.

[-Coulum- 35]

The ai on that vid, to me looked like oa ai - enemy with very low skill and friendly with very high skill. It didn't look like an improvement but it definitely didn't look like a downgrade.

So hush it, Jay Crowe said they've optimised the cover-finding algos, so it must be true.

I believe that was a change they made in the oa betas no? I don't believe they have made any other changes to the ai yet

[Vespa 1]

Hmm ok ,but what about to able to create own handmade custom reload animations?

Definitely possible if you got the skills. Technically depends on which sourcefiles and tools will be released to the public - management's call.

[mr.g-c 6]

Actually both running and sprinting in Arma3 are slower than in Arma2. Walk is about the same speed, and tactical pace is precisely inbetween walk and run.

All movement animations are mocap, just cleaned up, but not artificially stretched or sped up in any way.

Perhaps the feeling of faster movement is because of lower stance, better ground detail and broader FOV in Arma3?

Hello Vespa...

Please look into that Video:

The distance the player is achieving in less than 3 minutes looks a bit extreme. 3-5 Minutes more and he is on the coast.

I beg you to please do the speeds like in RL. Possibly like this:

Walking ~4-5km/h, Jogging 8-11km/h, sprinting 15-25km/h - for "standing" stance. (all depending on carried weight, steepness of surface and actual fatigue-factor).

Will it be possible to change that via configs without braking the look of the animations? So even if you leave it that way, realism mods could change it?

Will it be possible to disable/alter the stock fatigue system, so realism mods could overwrite it? I remember this was a problem so far in ArmA1 and ArmA2 if mods like ACE implemented their own system.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

The ai on that vid, to me looked like oa ai - enemy with very low skill and friendly with very high skill. It didn't look like an improvement but it definitely didn't look like a downgrade.

I believe that was a change they made in the oa betas no? I don't believe they have made any other changes to the ai yet

http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6381268/arma-3-demonstration

Somewhere in these woods there be truth on the matter. I think he had separated OA AI from ArmA III in that particular instance, when he said AI were dumb due to the amount of objects they had been calculating for cover in their vicinity, which had since been fixed in ArmA III.

<3 Jay Crowe. ;)

[LeeManatee 4]

Actually both running and sprinting in Arma3 are slower than in Arma2. Walk is about the same speed, and tactical pace is precisely inbetween walk and run.

All movement animations are mocap, just cleaned up, but not artificially stretched or sped up in any way.

Perhaps the feeling of faster movement is because of lower stance, better ground detail and broader FOV in Arma3?

this is interesting, BUT i still think that tactical pace is way to fast if you wil slow it down it will actually make sense.

@smk pack tactical pace speed was perfect (or very close to perfect), so you move faster then walking but not THAT fast what is very close to running.

so far it looks like run&gun gameplay. i hope you will tweak it a bit.

[liquidpinky 11]

The running speed in Arma 2 is just fine...

Being mostly a travel on foot or bicycle person I would normally agree, but we haven't taken into account what the new encumbrance system bring to the table.

It could be an upgrade for all speeds under running and sprint to make up for the fact you will never achieve running or sprinting when fully kitted out or at least for very very short durations, the E3 demos looked like none of the characters were ever heavily encumbered at any point when Ivan went into the gear menus either.

Unless they haven't made a beer icon yet and the blanks were in fact filled with Pilsner.

I don't mind normal movement speeds though, I could happily walk all over Chernarus or Takistan all day long.

Question to BIS devs, any screenies of the bicycles in A3 yet?

[maturin 12]

Getting to cover fast is a good thing. But it's only worth so much if the AI doesn't know how to actually use it to shelter himself from bullets, and get out of view. They need to be taught how to pop over walls, etc. Most of all, the conundrum between formation and cover needs to be resolved. What is the point of them running quickly to cover if the team leader and half his men decide to lie down in the middle of a four lane highway to keep the pretty wedge formation intact?

I know that programming improvements is an incremental process as Jay Crowe said, but in some cases BI needs a major leap, with some ambitious workarounds.

this is interesting, BUT i still think that tactical pace is way to fast if you wil slow it down it will actually make sense.

@smk pack tactical pace speed was perfect (or very close to perfect), so you move faster then walking but not THAT fast what is very close to running.

so far it looks like run&gun gameplay. i hope you will tweak it a bit.

They have said that during the Alpha, they are all ears, especially concerning tactical pace. So stand by.

Also, tactical pace speed is the average of walking and running.

[Alex72 1]

Please look into that Video:

...all depending on carried weight, steepness of surface and actual fatigue-factor...

Have there been any video showing fatigue yet? In that video the guy is running pretty far and at full speed without being (seemingly) fatigued. Maybe set to some simple level not to scare new customers away?

[maturin 12]

Have there been any video showing fatigue yet? In that video the guy is running pretty far and at full speed without being (seemingly) fatigued. Maybe set to some simple level not to scare new customers away?

It seems he's just carrying a rifle and 5 mags. With that load in ACE's harshly realistic fatigue system, I can go on for kilometers and kilometers.

[4 IN 1 0]

Question to BIS devs, any screenies of the bicycles in A3 yet?

Assuming that they actually are able to fix the bicycles in the first place.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

It seems he's just carrying a rifle and 5 mags. With that load in ACE's harshly realistic fatigue system, I can go on for kilometers and kilometers.

Most detailed screengrab to date of the New Inventory/description of infantry fatigue system - here,

Less accurate, less distance you will be able to run, translates into: you may hold your God damn breath till you're blue, but if you're carrying an M107 and a Javelin, your crosshair won't stabilise anytime soon. :icon_twisted:

I like this system if it's dependent on the crosshair stabilisation - prevents Rambos with the above load-out soloing whole armies.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin

[liquidpinky 11]

Most detailed screengrab to date of the New Inventory/description of infantry fatigue system - here,

Less accurate, less distance you will be able to run, translates into: you may hold your God damn breath till you're blue, but if you're carrying an M107 and a Javelin, your crosshair won't stabilise anytime soon. :icon_twisted:

I like this system if it's dependent on the crosshair stabilisation - prevents Rambos with the above load-out soloing whole armies.

I like the idea too, I like to one man army it and would readily accept the fact that there is limitations on my performance for being a gear whore.

Would add a pleasing challenge to it I think and a decent challenge rewards you no end when it all comes together.

[lwlooz 0]

Hello BIS , Hello fanboys.

Arma3 has even more amazing graphics than Arma2. Well done.

My only feedback so far is to get one programmer and one game designer to work solely on the AI until the Community Alpha.

The Arma2 OA AI doesn't even remotely live up to "greatest most realistic military simulator in the world".

People hate DayZ, but Coop is just like DayZ , but the Zombies have guns and you pretend to be some military outfit.

It would be nice if in the 4th installement of this series the AI learned some military tactics in order for us to be able to simulate not only the Libyan Civil War of late , but some more organized warfare as well.

It would also be nice if the individual AI crazyness and unresponsiveness when they enter eternal combat mode could be fixed.

So hopefully in the little time there is till next year , you have time for more than just merging Arma2 OA AI and little iterative steps.

Good luck and have fun,

Until Arma4 and a similar post, lwlooz :)

[Vespa 1]

If we are ever to fiddle with movements speeds, it will not happen before PACA is out and legit player feedback coming in.

[purepassion 22]

PACA you say?

Pay And Contribute Alpha by any chance? :)

That would be neat!

[royaltyinexile 175]

It's probably worth mentioning too that many of the recent Arrowhead beta fixes were not merged into the A3E3 build; i.e. improvements to LOD transitions, etc. We tried to close the build as early as possible (aside from vespa adding in animations until the last minute!! :D), and didn't want to risk presenting with an uncertain set of fixes.

It's also worth bearing in mind this is still what we might call Alpha, or even "E3 Alpha", and even then, I'd consider some features (such as the inventory system) to be barely out of its prototype nappies/diapers (since im writing from LA :)). Not an excuse, just a simple truth.

That aside, Ive tried to provide to the guys getting hands on some specific examples of improvements to the AI, and also try to talk in more general terms about approaching the task of enhancing the AI as an evolution, rather than a revolution.

I realis/zed when I was saying that it sounded like marketing drivvel, but in truth, it's exactly what we're forced to do. There's simply no way we can rip out the system/ systems/ arcane majik and start from scratch. Even when at certain times we may want to.

It's tough to answer a question like "is teh AI fixed, lul", "so did you do the optimizationz this teim?", but if we're honest about it and continue to improve niggles via the beta patch pipeline, etc, we'll make some progess. Anyway, everyone plays DayZ now so we can just scrap the AI and have zombies and screaming CODkids, right? :p

Of course, now and again, my face will hit the keyboard when my AI buddies let me down, but equally, when I'm hiding behind a random wall on a 8x8km island, and the AI tosses a grenade over it, I'm impressed, becasue I know that to do that, the AI navigated himself through a valley, identified a target, made a choice about how to engage me. I didn't have to script a single thing; in fact, if I'd tried to script it, it would never have been as good, reducing it to some linear FPS nonsense. I almost felt bad blowing his head off, but then again, he'd have done the same to me. ;)

Problems, yes. Potential, more.

[antoineflemming 14]

It's probably worth mentioning too that many of the recent Arrowhead beta fixes were not merged into the A3E3 build; i.e. improvements to LOD transitions, etc. We tried to close the build as early as possible (aside from vespa adding in animations until the last minute!! :D), and didn't want to risk presenting with an uncertain set of fixes.

It's also worth bearing in mind this is still what we might call Alpha, or even "E3 Alpha", and even then, I'd consider some features (such as the inventory system) to be barely out of its prototype nappies/diapers (since im writing from LA :)). Not an excuse, just a simple truth.

That aside, Ive tried to provide to the guys getting hands on some specific examples of improvements to the AI, and also try to talk in more general terms about approaching the task of enhancing the AI as an evolution, rather than a revolution.

I realis/zed when I was saying that it sounded like marketing drivvel, but in truth, it's exactly what we're forced to do. There's simply no way we can rip out the system/ systems/ arcane majik and start from scratch. Even when at certain times we may want to.

It's tough to answer a question like "is teh AI fixed, lul", "so did you do the optimizationz this teim?", but if we're honest about it and continue to improve niggles via the beta patch pipeline, etc, we'll make some progess. Anyway, everyone plays DayZ now so we can just scrap the AI and have zombies and screaming CODkids, right? :p

Of course, now and again, my face will hit the keyboard when my AI buddies let me down, but equally, when I'm hiding behind a random wall on a 8x8km island, and the AI tosses a grenade over it, I'm impressed, becasue I know that to do that, the AI navigated himself through a valley, identified a target, made a choice about how to engage me. I didn't have to script a single thing; in fact, if I'd tried to script it, it would never have been as good, reducing it to some linear FPS nonsense. I almost felt bad blowing his head off, but then again, he'd have done the same to me. ;)

Problems, yes. Potential, more.

Too bad you can't literally blow his head off...

[mr.g-c 6]

If we are ever to fiddle with movements speeds, it will not happen before PACA is out and legit player feedback coming in.

Roger that :-)

In any case, here is the ticket in the CIS:

https://dev-heaven.net/issues/30718

[jblackrupert 14]

After watching videos some more it appears AI was dumbed down considerably.

Whereas previously they would run into cover and stay there (which is a smart thing to do) during gunfight - here they will just run at a player like a bunch of stupid bots from arcade shooters.

Probably because they've been scripted to travel and behave the same way every single time so they can demonstrate the game without worrying about the AI going off and doing something unpredictable

and disrupting the demostration.

The alternative is turning on GOD MODE and allowing the player to be a bullet sponge which of course wouldn't be a very good selling point for Arma.

[Tonci87 163]

If we are ever to fiddle with movements speeds, it will not happen before PACA is out and legit player feedback coming in.

OK Please explain what PACA is?

Play and contribute Alpha

or

Pay and contribute Alpha?

[da12thMonkey 1943]

There were unsuccessful attempts with motion captured reloads, but in the end all reload anims are handmade. There will be lot of them, and sometimes one reload animation fits multiple weapons, so you have some chance right there. There will still be the magic handwave Arma2 style reload anim available, so in worst case you can use that (if you do some totally exotic weapon)

Thanks for the response; I thought that was probably the case.

I'm hoping there will be some decent animation tools for ArmA 3: As great as it is to be able to do .rtms in O2, I imagine making anims with such finite detail as manipulating a weapon will require some form of skeletal plugin for professional, 3rd party software to get them as good as you guys have done them. We'll cross that bridge when it comes to it though I guess :).

@Jay: Speaking of DayZ at E3; what did you guys do with all the shite Dean got? Just toss it in the trash or donate it to some lucky homeless guy outside the LACC? I'm assuming you guys in Bohemia are paid just enough to feed yourselves, without relying on handouts from the public :D