Training from Amerca's Army Games in ArmA3

[TCEd 0]

I like the idea of having a detailed training portion of the game, but not something that is mandatory from the start. Lets face it, most veteran Arma gamers already know how to use most/all weapons correctly, know how to fly, know how to use Armor (at least they should know if they've spent any real time playing) so to put this on new players or everyone from the start is not a good idea. Ppl want to play what they paid for, so let them.

But.... I detailed training style would work great for more professional & organized communities. I help Admin such a community & we would love to be able to offer & implement a detailed boot-camp/training period for our troops. Having them pass certain qualifications to help place them in an Army is key to success. I guess this could be done with editor without anything from the BIS, but they could do a much better job & have it tie into the game itself, so players who do not qualify for say a Chopper couldn't then steal one or just get in a fly away like so many do who are not suppose to. Anyway, it's a good idea if done correctly.

[rye1 21]

Also, the medical course in AA was an interesting approach, but it did not translate well into the gameplay as you basically just sat trough the lecture and completed the exams, and never ended up using anything you learned. It would suit ACE more than the AA or vanilla ArmA environments.

I would say yes for AA2. It was as simple as holding space and allowing your avatar to bandage the person... but AA3 did it better, at least for a short period of time... as expected, you had to actually pick a choice out of 4 available choices. Of course, repitition would have you conduct the correct option within a few days of gameplay but to become a medic you had to sit through the class as well. I like the realistic approach for two reasons: 1) I'm a fan and 2) Kids don't get the wrong impression. If it was open to more options, say to stabilize the patient quicker with new equipment as a medic (medic-only available equipment) or diagnose then I think I would melt... :D But that ain't gunna happen. But the better the medical system can be, the more plus points from me.

[Tonci87 163]

My Suggestion:

Use the armory

Include an additional that says training if you click on a Weapon. So you choose a Weapon and hit Training instead of Practice (you need to rename that to "Random Chalenges"). Each Category should have a specific training. If you choose a rifle, you end up on a shooting range, if you choose a grenade launcher you end up on a shooting range with target groups, if you choose a sniper rifle you end up on a range with far away targets, a pistol brings you to a range with near targets, a tank will get you to a small attack position Mission, a transport helicopter will get you to a mission where you have to fly to various waypoints and pick up passengers, a attack helo will get you to a mission where you have to sneak past air defenses to attack a position, and so on.

[almanzo 144]

Guys. It should be like CWC if anything.

You had the training through all of the Well Designed Campaign as you were gradually introduced to all cool things you could do in the game in a very interesting way.

And at the same time you had single missions - which also had same training starting with the first one and as you went through them they were teaching you more and more stuff.

Unfortunately since then BIS lost all SP-making skills they ever had.

Most people (including me) don't want to sit through a lecture/play stupid shit like "press WASD to move! WOW U r so kewl! Now move mouse to rotate the camera! WOOOOW! Take a cookie! And now press a fire button to fire! Holy crap dude you are so awsum" for hours just to do that basic stuff. You can't get skills by doing a training which is repeating what you are told to do/shooting at static targets. You get them by playing.

Something BIS understood in 2001 - which they don't now.

This + 1!

It's all about slow progression in the campain, like CWC did. Simple presentation of basic infantry controls, then easy missions in the beginning to have the player get used to fire and maneuver, then later some missions where you drive, then tank, then leading a fireteam/squad, then chopper/plane. Each step can have a very short introduction/training sequence.

[onlyrazor 11]

My Suggestion:

Use the armory

Include an additional that says training if you click on a Weapon.

While it's a good idea, I don't think it'd catch on. When people get Arma, they go either for the campaign, the editor, the multiplayer or the options menu. The training needs to get to everybody who plays the game, not just the people who click on Armory.

[djfluffwug 10]

While it's a good idea, I don't think it'd catch on. When people get Arma, they go either for the campaign, the editor, the multiplayer or the options menu. The training needs to get to everybody who plays the game, not just the people who click on Armory.

Exactly this. Some people would get extremely confused and would not be able to find training even if they wanted it.

[msy 22]

While it's a good idea, I don't think it'd catch on. When people get Arma, they go either for the campaign, the editor, the multiplayer or the options menu. The training needs to get to everybody who plays the game, not just the people who click on Armory.

player who want to play this kind of game should get patient enough and want to explore the whole game more than sp/mp mission.

Even OFP made the training in the first mission of campaign and other missions in it, it only showed OFP was the first one of ARMA series and it needed all player to get familiar with the basic operating. Besides in OFP you first play as a new recruit who is led by AI leader, but in ARMA2 and in ARMA3 you are SF unit and should get ready to be a commander after the first some missions. Put training in ARMA2 campaign is more or less unsuitable.

[metalcraze 290]

That's what I've meant by BIS not knowing how to do SP anymore.

"Hey guys people like to be speshul forciz let's do speshul forciz games"

Of course when the game comes out it turns out that people just want a good campaign (see the very "lukewarm" reception of speshul forciz-oriented QG, ArmA2 and PMC) with a smooth progression that doesn't get boring due to variety but BIS just keeps pushing that special forces boredom every 2 years hoping they will do it right one of these days.

[160thSOAR 10]

I can see why many people dislike this idea, but I still believe it would go a long way to reducing the number of idiots on public servers.

In vanilla ArmA2, even in a well-moderated server where you should be on TS3 to fly, idiots grab the helicopters without authorization and crash them several times every day. Then there are the people who are always taking a sniper rifle and an AT launcher. Then there are the people who stand around, look at your character writhing on the ground, shoot at you a few times with their rifle, and wander off. My point is that there are a lot of people who play this game who have simply no idea what to do. I'm trying to minimize that by forcing them to learn.

Remember, this is a server-side option....

[antoineflemming 14]

That's what I've meant by BIS not knowing how to do SP anymore.

"Hey guys people like to be speshul forciz let's do speshul forciz games"

Of course when the game comes out it turns out that people just want a good campaign (see the very "lukewarm" reception of speshul forciz-oriented QG, ArmA2 and PMC) with a smooth progression that doesn't get boring due to variety but BIS just keeps pushing that special forces boredom every 2 years hoping they will do it right one of these days.

I bet you if they could make it more like COD (as in the types of missions that you do, not the arcade hollywood style of COD), with better animations, the special forces-oriented gameplay would be received better. But the problem is that there's a system and control-scheme/animations that are suited for regular army stuff, and they are applying that to special forces. So of course it doesn't work. To do special forces, the missions and operations have to be "cool" to draw in people's attention. Not in the "uber-cool hollywood xploshunz" kinda way, but in what you as the character are actually doing, and how you can do that. So like, in MW, and MW3, you can sneak behind enemy lines as a 2-man team, and cause havok to enemy hardware and personnel, either through the use of ghillie suits during daytime, or using nighttime as an advantage. Or you can move into a building and clear it out with minimal effort. Forget the floating cams, forget the hollywood effects, forget the hollywood story. You should be able to do these things in ArmA. If you could move with the quick reaction needed to move in and clear a building, if you could actually use ghillie suits and/or nighttime for stealth operations, then this special forces gameplay would be received better. But their game (at its current stage) isn't suited for that. It wouldn't be that boring if it were done right.

Honestly, in ArmA 3, they need to focus on both. Suiting the story, I'd say the first part of the game should be special-forces focused. The last part of the game should be regular army focused as I believe you get the resistance and people on your side at the end (if I'm correct on how the story is going to play out).

[ddeo 10]

I have to agree with metalcraze. I really miss days when I started playing first ofp and my AI leader was telling me what to do. I actually hate commanding/leading the team! I love to play as small rifleman with my fireteam. :) But it is all subjectif.

Now I'll write my answer to the thread, maybe not fully about AA training system. I think it should be like in cwc (or cwa), where you gain experience through playing whole campaign. People (especially who are new into the series) should slowly learn how to play the game. In arma 2 we had few practice missions, but I think many new players started campaign instead learning the game (that could cause in dropping the game by them too fast). Also tutorials itself were boring for me, if I would be new into the series I would probably stop playing the game at this part. It was made the best in cwc, because it was interesting from the begining, people started with almost 0 experience and their character was unexperienced too, but during the campaign they were (both character and player) learning how to play the game/fight on the field. That way we had more interesting game, also by having that connection to the main character. Why not make restart of the series like this, and bring new players who are interested in this kind of game, but are finding it hard to get through basics? I'm sure it can be still implemented.

Edited February 14, 2012 by ddeo

[DancZer 65]

I have to agree with metalcraze. I really miss days when I started playing first ofp and my AI leader was telling me what to do. I actually hate commanding/leading the team! I love to play as small rifleman with my fireteam. :) But it is all subjectif.

Now I'll write my answer to the thread, maybe not fully about AA training system. I think it should be like in cwc (or cwa), where you gain experience through playing whole campaign. People (especially who are new into the series) should slowly learn how to play the game. In arma 2 we had few practice missions, but I think many new players started campaign instead learning the game (that could cause in dropping the game by them too fast). Also tutorials itself were boring for me, if I would be new into the series I would probably stop playing the game at this part. It was made the best in cwc, because it was interesting from the begining, people started with almost 0 experience and their character was unexperienced too, but during the campaign they were (both character and player) learning how to play the game/fight on the field. That way we had more interesting game, also by having that connection to the main character. Why not make restart of the series like this, and bring new players who are interested in this kind of game, but are finding it hard to get through basics? I'm sure it can be still implemented.

I totally agree with you!! It is important, because even the current Arma players need to learn how to use new features of the game. Good campaigns are demonstrate the game features too.

[spotter001 82]

don't know 4 u but i like the idea...

[sgtice 10]

Also, the medical course in AA was an interesting approach, but it did not translate well into the gameplay as you basically just sat trough the lecture and completed the exams, and never ended up using anything you learned. It would suit ACE more than the AA or vanilla ArmA environments.

Not true. Someone actually managed to stop a persons bleeding and give them first aid in real life because of that class. I learned quite a bit which I ended up using in a first aid class years later.

Anyway on topic for a while I wanted AA training to but it dosen't really fit into ArmA, however it could be tweaked to work with it such as a camp which I love to build. The medical type training could be crunched easily to give you what you really need to know, however you may call the long lectures useless, but it's all about repetition. if you see it, hear and do it. you learn better.

As for training though in the general sense you'd likely get some pre deployment training or in the US Army you will have refresher courses every 4-6 months sometimes more space in between. Seen Black Hawk Down? training not too far away from the warzone.

Edited February 15, 2012 by SGTIce

[rye1 21]

Some of the long lessons, useless, yes! The SF training... identifying vehicles and listening to 10 minute talks by each role member... to play some SF missions and use some different weapons. Useless! I don't recommend anything like that from a personal point of view.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Decoupled from the main campaign mode:

Basic training missions for all those who are new to Armaverse.

Advanced training missions for all those that need a refresher course and like to know everything about new A3 features/weapon systems.

Imho the campaign should have a focus on the main characters and their story on Lemnos. Would be strange if the players character has to train and practice stuff during his missions. Even worse if its just basic stuff like how to use vehicles, laserdesignator, weapons....

[l mandrake 9]

I like the idea of passing a sniper course, to allow you to equip sniper rifles in the game - but IMO this sort of qualification restriction only really applies to Single Player, in MP it's just a PITA.

[Smurf 12]

Guys. It should be like CWC if anything.

You had the training through all of the Well Designed Campaign as you were gradually introduced to all cool things you could do in the game in a very interesting way.

And at the same time you had single missions - which also had same training starting with the first one and as you went through them they were teaching you more and more stuff.

Unfortunately since then BIS lost all SP-making skills they ever had.

Most people (including me) don't want to sit through a lecture/play stupid shit like "press WASD to move! WOW U r so kewl! Now move mouse to rotate the camera! WOOOOW! Take a cookie! And now press a fire button to fire! Holy crap dude you are so awsum" for hours just to do that basic stuff. You can't get skills by doing a training which is repeating what you are told to do/shooting at static targets. You get them by playing.

Something BIS understood in 2001 - which they don't now.

This fit this:

[Choki 10]

jaja yes! Is Call of duty era

[Tonci87 163]

This fit this:

[video=youtube;8FpigqfcvlM]

This Video is a great watch!

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Guys. It should be like CWC if anything.

You had the training through all of the Well Designed Campaign as you were gradually introduced to all cool things you could do in the game in a very interesting way.

And at the same time you had single missions - which also had same training starting with the first one and as you went through them they were teaching you more and more stuff.

Unfortunately since then BIS lost all SP-making skills they ever had.

Most people (including me) don't want to sit through a lecture/play stupid shit like "press WASD to move! WOW U r so kewl! Now move mouse to rotate the camera! WOOOOW! Take a cookie! And now press a fire button to fire! Holy crap dude you are so awsum" for hours just to do that basic stuff. You can't get skills by doing a training which is repeating what you are told to do/shooting at static targets. You get them by playing.

Something BIS understood in 2001 - which they don't now.

(All "you"'s in the post is addressing the community, no one in particular)

I think the video linked above is awesome, but you guys are forgetting that ArmA isn't a 2d platformer, a corridor shooter or something that CAN be simply learned by just playing...on the KEYBOARD. Also multiplayer.

While yes, you will learn how the enemies behave, some strategy and so on by failing. One does not simply learn everything there is to ArmA without guidance. A friend of mine just recently learned how to lower his gun in A2, and we've been playing ArmA for ages, and he's seen me do it a lot.

Why some of the OFP style training will not work:

There is multiplayer

...and multiplayer is popular in the times we're gaming in. Some people will like it being forced to play SP to mission 4 to learn to drive a vehicle, get mission 8 for the tank tutorial, 13 for helicopter, 15 for airplane, etc. You need to have stuff like that available right away, otherwise you get the BF3 syndrome where people are either afraid to go into a vehicle because they know they never learned how to control them or they're gonna try on a populated server and crash and be insulted. BF3 is forgiving since you and the vehicle can respawn in the next 30 seconds and all is well. In Arma, you just made everyone restart the mission and go trough the entire lobby experience again. ArmA has Armory and Editor so you can learn while not ruining it for the others, but some players again don't give a damn about SP and/or editor sounds too scary.

So why not provide a ready available controlled environment where you can teach the player (if he so chooses) that double tapping CTRL will lower his gun, instead of making him have an adventure in the control remap screen, which is scary by itself when you look at the little scrollbar and notice that the control list is longer than the manual the game came with and many of the control names make no sense. Even OFP which we all praise has had that same controlled environment with those "annoying" popups that paused the game until you clicked continue.

You did not learn to shoot your gun in the forest outside Morton, you got a nice little story intertwined shooting range.

They took you out to a peninsula so far away from anyone so you can learn to drive a truck, and you still crashed into Berghoffs jeep.

They gave you a some paper tanks to shoot at from your magnificent tank.

They put you in the middle of crossroad with some loons to teach you to tell them to stand around you in different patterns.

They gave you a transport helo and told you to pick up some troops, sometimes you never even got there, and when you did, that lighthouse ate you for breakfast.

They let you take off from Malden in your aircraft and ended the mission right away.

So yeah, you need some form of a tutorial, available RIGHT AWAY. Why not put all the above things and more in a nice little story package RIGHT IN THE MAIN MENU. Having it tie into the story somehow would be a major awesomeness since it wouldn't just be an interactive manual.

Your body is the controller

... well not exactly, but tell me how many keys on the keyboard are bound to nothing when you play ArmA (default scheme)? Oh wait, ACE had to settle for RWIN and APP keys which might not even be present on some keyboards. But just pressing the buttons isn't enough for ArmA, you've got double taps, double tap+hold, multi key combos, optional TrackIR, etc. I know when I first assaulted Morton, it was a coop experience for me and my friend.

Let's compare:

Mega Man?

- 6 buttons + dpad

- direction of travel: right

- camera controls: none

Majority of multiplatform games?

- 12 buttons and 3 directional inputs

- prefered direction of travel: not the way you came from

- camera controls: some

ArmA?

- At least 104 button keyboard with various modifiers, mouse, optionally TrackIR

- prefered direction of travel: wherever you damn please

- Camera controls: FPS, TPS, Command view and all the other potential gimmicks

You are not the average player

...well maybe you are, but seriously you just started with BIS games and already so hardcore about OFP? Most of us have been playing BIS games for at least half a decade, some a full decade. Not everyone has had that great adventure we did, some are just embarking on it, we shouldn't be punishing them. Look how many great community members we've gained trough two true sequels to OFP. Some are even BI employees now. Do we want ArmA to be so inaccessible that BI just gives up on it because no new customers ever took interest because they couldn't find the button to steal the car?

In conclusion to this lengthy post my point is, just to make it clear my message is:

Make an awesome tutorial experience for players who are just coming into the fold, make it relevant to the people who keep up with the ArmAverse trough the stories BI presents to us (in truth, some greater than others) and teach all of us promptly all the new game mechanics we've never encountered before in ArmA trough that same delightful experience.

[Serclaes 0]

I liked the AA training because it was a little like role playing.

And it wasn't "press WASD to move" it was an obstacle course. With running (then the DI shouting for sprinting), sliding (hey wait when sprinting and pressing duck I slide? cool), mantling/vaulting, climbing ladders, moving left and right and everything in under a minute. See what they did there?

Story would be cool (as in ofp) but I'd be ok with a "basic training" like the AA one. Provided the setting is good.

[Clarkey1 10]

Voted No, not because I don't like the AA training it's actually done well. I just don't want to be restricted from using a certain weapon without training with it (especially if I've used it in ArmA 2 and don't feel I need to go through the basics again just to use it). I would like to see more in depth training in ArmA but I think that's something BI are working on for A3 anyway.

[antoineflemming 14]

Maybe the Armory (where you test weapons and vehicles and such) should be like AA2/3's basic training format (read: a firing range), or at least the weapons part of it. Maybe the Armory could be a base in the U.K. or something (yeah, that would require another terrain, but it could be a small terrain, just large enough for the base). It's significance to the campaign could be that this is where your team deploys from.

[nkenny 1051]

@Sniperwolf

I disagree with the notion that Arma2 is too complicated to learn whilst playing. That Arma2 cannot is a failure of its interface and overall design, not a fundamental truth of the medium. Arma2 is a game which as you note cover many aspects, neither of which are covered in simulator depth necessitating formal training to get your head around.

The infantry aspects of Arma2 require perhaps two or three buttons more than any other tactical FPS. Admittedly more if we count the F1-F12 to command AI. Many of the extra buttons used in Arma2 could have been eliminated given a better thought out control layout.

Every time a player; accidentally throws a grenade, sits in the wrong vehicle seat, fumbles and plants a satchel, gets shot fumbling with his sidearm, or a number of other examples. This is as much a failure of Arma2's interface as it is the player involved.

Tutorials

I think well crafted singleplayer scenarios would function well enough as an introductory to the meat and blood of Arma3's gameplay. As much as I hate crashing choppers in public games, often due to incompetent or simply inexperienced pilots, and as much as I wish I could force that pilot to take a tutorial-- such a heavy handed approach seems a bit unfitting for a sandbox style game.

If however piloting choppers or operating armored vehicles becomes such a complicated and advanced specialist task. That someone untrained would simply crash... Well, then the tables have turned, but so has the design goal of Arma.

-k