Steamworks, add it in or not?

[Nicholas 5]

Blah...I have Steam overlay disabled completely.

[spooky lynx 73]

As an option - maybe. But I have only negative Steam experience so please don't make it Steam-dependable.

[b00ce 160]

please don't make it Steam-dependable.

BIS won't. I can guarantee that.

[Slides 10]

The PC game industry has already adopted Steam. There is no question that BIS has NO choice but to offer at the very least sales through Steam, if not total integration. Total integration would be great to have, and great for the user too, but it's up to BIS.

Being angry at Steam is not going to change the reality that Steam is the leader of digital game sales and BIS MUST sell through Steam as it has been doing.

[dmarkwick 261]

The PC game industry has already adopted Steam. There is no question that BIS has NO choice but to offer at the very least sales through Steam, if not total integration. Total integration would be great to have, and great for the user too, but it's up to BIS.

Being angry at Steam is not going to change the reality that Steam is the leader of digital game sales and BIS MUST sell through Steam as it has been doing.

You mention the games industry as though it were one big entity, and that as such "it" has adopted Steam as its digital distribution mode of choice. It is currently the market leader, but many games (most even) don't use it. Maybe that will change, maybe digital distribution will become more diverse (i.e. Sprocket) but there is no "must" about it. However, as ArmA2 is already a firm Steam product, I agree that it will happen for ArmA3. Just not exclusively, or with Steamworks.

I don't see much actual anger toward Steam, as a service it seems to be performing well all things considered. I just don't wish for all my games to be subject to one super-EULA that can have the possibility of simply locking me out for ALL titles, whether deliberately or erroneously. I have Skyrim, which uses Steam, and that's fine it's one, single game. But if I have 20 Steam games, and one of the developers decide to complain to Steam because it believed I stole a texture to use in a mod for another game, Steam locks me out for ALL games. And Steam don't have to explain a damn thing to me, or even make any effort to check the accusation, which is by far the easiest path for them. When any company gets big, the glorious path of least resistance becomes the path.

[onlyrazor 11]

Well said, sir! :ok:

[Chrissd21 10]

The PC game industry has already adopted Steam. There is no question that BIS has NO choice but to offer at the very least sales through Steam, if not total integration. Total integration would be great to have, and great for the user too, but it's up to BIS.

Being angry at Steam is not going to change the reality that Steam is the leader of digital game sales and BIS MUST sell through Steam as it has been doing.

Well no, Steam is the industry leader for certain categories of games. If you like Paradox games then you're better off being on GamersGate. Steam has some, uh, issues.. Divine Wind was several months late to Steam, the current Victoria 2 DLC completely screws the game. Multiplayer for, what was it. EU III? Forget, but the Steam version is incompatible with any other. GamersGate is fine though, so that's the industry leader if you're a fan of certain strategy games. Hearts of Iron, Vicky, EU, etc. If you play ArmA then Sprocket would be the industry leader, or the DVD sales, so Amazon maybe. There's a few games where if you like mods you're better off not playing on Steam because it has absolutely horrible support. VAC was even banning everyone who used a certain HL2 mod a while back, the mod changed a texture so VAC decided that it of course must be a wall hack. Actually Steam rep said that VAC couldn't be told not to look for that, so it's still there. Running constantly in the background of your machine. False positives will get your entire account banned for life so stay away from mods. :P

I have 171 games on Steam including store bought, Steam bought, which I think a few mods like , free games like America's Army and some demo's. But there's still well over 100 retail games in there so I'm not all that hateful towards Steam. I do think it's better than other forms of DRM out there (except when it includes all the regular DRM and the Steam application. Having to login to three different auth servers in order to play single player is a joke. But yea, I have a few games, I still buy games on there, and I could write you a well reasoned essay as to why ArmA should stay well away. Complete with inline citations. :P

I'd much rather buy a disc version (collectors edition with shiny physical items that are completely useless? lol), or from a site like Sprocket or GoG.

[Slides 10]

You mention the games industry as though it were one big entity, and that as such "it" has adopted Steam as its digital distribution mode of choice. It is currently the market leader, but many games (most even) don't use it. Maybe that will change, maybe digital distribution will become more diverse (i.e. Sprocket) but there is no "must" about it. However, as ArmA2 is already a firm Steam product, I agree that it will happen for ArmA3. Just not exclusively, or with Steamworks.

I don't see much actual anger toward Steam, as a service it seems to be performing well all things considered. I just don't wish for all my games to be subject to one super-EULA that can have the possibility of simply locking me out for ALL titles, whether deliberately or erroneously. I have Skyrim, which uses Steam, and that's fine it's one, single game. But if I have 20 Steam games, and one of the developers decide to complain to Steam because it believed I stole a texture to use in a mod for another game, Steam locks me out for ALL games. And Steam don't have to explain a damn thing to me, or even make any effort to check the accusation, which is by far the easiest path for them. When any company gets big, the glorious path of least resistance becomes the path.

Yes, the games industry is one big entity. Which is why it's called the games industry and on account of Steam being the leader for PC games distribution, BIS will continue to have to rely on STEAM for a good portion of their sales. Steam customer support is one of the best in the industry, and while the risk of an account being unfairly banned remains in any digital rights protected online environment, with Steam and Valve's credibility taken into account, there is a good chance you will be dealt with fairly.

Steam's success has proven that the model works and is here to stay. It has also been a great way to combat PC game piracy with its ease of access and good deals.

---------- Post added at 01:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 AM ----------

Well no, Steam is the industry leader for certain categories of games.

This includes almost all of the game genres that are immensely popular, thus making Steam an industry leader. The fact that you have 171 Steam games says it all. You wanting to buy a disc version are now the exception to the rule.

[dmarkwick 261]

Yes, the games industry is one big entity.

This sentence has the remarkable quality of being simultaneously correct, and utterly meaningless. However I maintain my stance of agreeing with you that Steam is the largest digital distributor of games and that BIS will continue to use them. :)

[onlyrazor 11]

Now all we need is a BIS Dev to say there will be no Steamworks in Arma 3, somebody else to say that it should, and then I can start quoting that insane guy from Far Cry 3

[FlibbertyJibbit 1]

I don't see why not.

[Rebel44 10]

Now all we need is a BIS Dev to say there will be no Steamworks in Arma 3, somebody else to say that it should, and then I can start quoting that insane guy from Far Cry 3

I dont see any reson why at least Steam version shouldnt have some Steamworks features.

[onlyrazor 11]

I dont see any reson why at least Steam version shouldnt have some Steamworks features.

I don't think Steam works that way. It's either all-Steamworks or no-Steamworks. Besides, even if it did, what would that mean? Achievements? Steam workshop? DRM that would disconnect players the second their Steam sync faultered?

[jblackrupert 14]

Steam's success has proven that the model works and is here to stay. It has also been a great way to combat PC game piracy with its ease of access and good deals.

Steams success is because of SALES on games. it's DRM scheme was broken long ago. The no Steam piracy thing is MYTH

If it weren't for the sales Steam would have been dumped long long ago.

Edited February 20, 2012 by jblackrupert

[metalcraze 290]

FYI pirate scene does Steam releases even before official sales start because they can just preload and crack puny Steam's DRM.

OTOH nobody has cracked BIS DRM yet.

Steamworks is a bloatware aimed at children who want meaningless achievements that thousands of players unlocked as well.

[jblackrupert 14]

Gabe Newell just has a talent for making everyone else look like the bad guys when Steam is just as bad when it comes to intrusive DRM and nasty EULA's.

He's the Steve Jobs of the videogame industry.

[onlyrazor 11]

He's not such a bad guy. They make actual quality products without outsourcing all their labour to Chinese sweatfactories.

[metalcraze 290]

Last time Valve developed something was ~5 years ago and it wasn't even anything special.

So I don't know what do you mean. Valve just lives off of Steam now.

As for Steam itself - it isn't really a quality product. It's overloaded with "social" stuff way too much.

Edited February 21, 2012 by metalcraze

[Tonci87 163]

Last time Valve developed something was ~5 years ago and it wasn't even anything special.

So I don't know what do you mean. Valve just lives off of Steam now.

As for Steam itself - it isn't really a quality product. It's overloaded with "social" stuff way too much.

Portal 2?

And they made Half Life 2, one of the most epic games of all times.

[metalcraze 290]

Portal 2?

And they made Half Life 2, one of the most epic games of all times.

Portal is not made by Valve. Neither are CS and L4D series while we are at it.

HL2 is a mediocre shooter. I never understood what's so special about shooting the same type of enemy across linear corridor. Maybe Halo grade hype?

But that's kinda derailing

[maddogx 13]

Portal is not made by Valve. Neither are CS and L4D series while we are at it.

I don't know about CS, but Portal and L4D were certainly made by Valve. Do you have links to information stating otherwise?

[sickboy 13]

I don't know about CS, but Portal and L4D were certainly made by Valve. Do you have links to information stating otherwise?

I think he's referring at who invented the concepts. L4D and CS both started as Mods iirc.

Still I don't see the importance of this nuance.

[Smurf 12]

Steamworks => Steam only game (you still can buy it elsewhere, but it HAVE to be activated at Steam) and silly functions (Achievements, maybe stats tracking and cloud saving).

I don´t have any problem with Steam (and can´t understand why so much hate towards it here....) but Steamworks seems a waste of time.

[160thSOAR 10]

FYI pirate scene does Steam releases even before official sales start because they can just preload and crack puny Steam's DRM.

OTOH nobody has cracked BIS DRM yet.

Steamworks is a bloatware aimed at children who want meaningless achievements that thousands of players unlocked as well.

No it's not.

Steam is hardly perfect, but it offers a whole lot more than some achievements. Steam lets me keep all my games in one place so I can easily do whatever I want without having to do annoying disk switching. As an added bonus, I don't have to worry about misplacing a disk that I've had for years, something I'm very good at doing. I like Steam for the convenience, nothing else.

[maddogx 13]

No it's not.

Steam is hardly perfect, but it offers a whole lot more than some achievements. Steam lets me keep all my games in one place so I can easily do whatever I want without having to do annoying disk switching. As an added bonus, I don't have to worry about misplacing a disk that I've had for years, something I'm very good at doing. I like Steam for the convenience, nothing else.

You seem to be confusing two different things. The advantages you listed are basic Steam features that have nothing to do with Steamworks.