Steamworks, add it in or not?

[batto 17]

But you need REMOTE ACCESS to play online. got it?

Yes. But I don't need to run Steam-memory-eater to authenticate with Valve just to play my favourite game. Got it? I may also want to play SP or LAN.

PLus its been said a thousand times. steam has a OFFLINE mode

If I'm off-line Steam becomes completely useless piece of crap that I have to run to launch my favourite game because only feature that remains are game launchers. I use icons on desktop. EDIT: Yeah, forgot it creates icons too x( but it still launches Steam.

If it's optional I don't care.

On the other hand, I understand that it saves game studios some time with sales.

Edited May 21, 2012 by batto

[rfc 10]

I own like > 100 games on Steam.

I voted "no". Never ever would I like to see any BIS game on Steam.

Their way (BIS) of managing their community and providing timely updates, encouraging their community to create mods is such a dynamic process which IMHO simply conflicts the Steam works today (i.e. not said Steam won't change for better, but currently I'd be against it if asked).

[dmarkwick 261]

This is a great game.

So just because you are clumbsy and click and share your user details to all means we shouldnt have steamworks for this game due to your ignorance? LOL.

So just because you have poor assumptions....... well, I think you get the idea.

LOL

BTW, I don't make the decision. Just thought I'd point that out.

Edited May 21, 2012 by DMarkwick

[pathetic_berserker 4]

brilliant post.

I am still waiting on just ONE SINGLE reason why arma 3 should not be a steamworks game. just one reason.

1. I don't need it

2. I don't need it

3. I don't need it

4. I don't need it

5. I don't need it

6. I don't need it

7. I don't need it

8. I don't need it

9. I don't need it

10. I don't need it

I know who my freinds are and where to find them,I don't need it. If they arn't around I make my own fun,I don't need it. I know how to install a MOD, I don't need it. I like to keep bloatware away from my machine,I don't need it etc. etc.

Oh and just in case you dont think any of those are valid reasons, .....I don't need it, period

[jblackrupert 14]

Don't need it

Don't want it

It's bloated crap.

[Tonci87 163]

Steam and its offline Mode, don´t even get me started on that. How many times have I tried to deactivate that stupid piece'o'crap just to see it self activating again, or telling me that I must connect to steam to play a SP game. The Auto Updater is a piece'o'crap too. Even If I deactivate it it still somehow manages to reactivate on its own, greeting me with a the game has to update first before you can play it message.

Steam is not needed to play Arma 2, why should it be for Arma 3? Just for the Lulz and some StupidNoOneCaresAboutThem achievements (I bet that´s what is really going on here)?

[jonneymendoza 10]

Yes. But I don't need to run Steam-memory-eater to authenticate with Valve just to play my favourite game. Got it? I may also want to play SP or LAN.

If I'm off-line Steam becomes completely useless piece of crap that I have to run to launch my favourite game because only feature that remains are game launchers. I use icons on desktop. EDIT: Yeah, forgot it creates icons too x( but it still launches Steam.

If it's optional I don't care.

On the other hand, I understand that it saves game studios some time with sales.

Are you high? if steam is a huge system usage to u, you need to upgrade your slow weak pc if it cant run a simple 50mb ram usage app in the background. your pc couldnt even browse the net if it cant run steam. upgrade your pal. even my Android smartphone can run steam in the background

---------- Post added at 09:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 AM ----------

I own like > 100 games on Steam.

I voted "no". Never ever would I like to see any BIS game on Steam.

Their way (BIS) of managing their community and providing timely updates, encouraging their community to create mods is such a dynamic process which IMHO simply conflicts the Steam works today (i.e. not said Steam won't change for better, but currently I'd be against it if asked).

how do u work that out? look at the huge success of Skyrim, a very heavily modded game that runs flawlessly on steam keeping all your mods up to date automatically

---------- Post added at 10:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 AM ----------

1. I don't need it

2. I don't need it

3. I don't need it

4. I don't need it

5. I don't need it

6. I don't need it

7. I don't need it

8. I don't need it

9. I don't need it

10. I don't need it

I know who my freinds are and where to find them,I don't need it. If they arn't around I make my own fun,I don't need it. I know how to install a MOD, I don't need it. I like to keep bloatware away from my machine,I don't need it etc. etc.

Oh and just in case you dont think any of those are valid reasons, .....I don't need it, period

How would you find say a friend here who browses these forums once in a while and straight up launches and play Arma 2 without logging into another third party bloatware chat like skype/msn.

how are you going to find that person? send him a pm her ein the forums? say if he doesnt go visit the forum? he or she wont see your message and it is a missed opprtunity linking up to play with your mate.

Now lets see how ti works on steam/dedicated login/friends list system.

Before launching Arma 3 to play online, you have to log into either steam or a centralised alternative system created by BIS.

once logged in, you can see if your friends are online playing the game.

WOW that easy aint it? instead of using skype/msn which are more resource hogs and have more bloatware!

See how useful a centralised system is?

Imagine you had a friend who DOESNT browse no common forums that you do or uses skype/msn. good luck trying to ever meet up with that person or to see if he or she is online at the same time as you.

[rfc 10]

how do u work that out? look at the huge success of Skyrim, a very heavily modded game that runs flawlessly on steam keeping all your mods up to date automatically

That's a good question. I were using mods for Skyrim before the Steam Workshop but couldn't get used to the Workshop interface. It is suddenly forced upon you.

You see, I like my browser, I use it very often every day, it is customized (colors, font size, etc.). Steamworkshop runs entirely inside the Steam application which uses an embedded browser which is nearly unconfigurable to me. For one, the displayed Fonts and everything IMHO is so small for me, hard to see. It strains my eyes and thus I avoid it. Last time I looked, the tagging and filtering system was not very well thought. And it has, IMHO, long loading times.

Now compare that to e.g. armaholic. Couldn't say I love the design :) but it runs in my browser. I inspect the mods I want in tabs, organize the things, use Six Updater to download them; I feel I'm in control and know whats going on.

But yes, there are downsides. When I started to learn the whole eco-system, it took ages to understand things. Srsly, Six Updater needs a diploma to get it ;-) Maybe those who are already "part of the eco-system" of BIS products are used to the way it works and it works for them. But it's likely not every newcomer friendly and my whole POV is just that: subjective. But hey, that's OK, no, since this is a poll-thread? :)

[jonneymendoza 10]

That's a good question. I were using mods for Skyrim before the Steam Workshop but couldn't get used to the Workshop interface. It is suddenly forced upon you.

You see, I like my browser, I use it very often every day, it is customized (colors, font size, etc.). Steamworkshop runs entirely inside the Steam application which uses an embedded browser which is nearly unconfigurable to me. For one, the displayed Fonts and everything IMHO is so small for me, hard to see. It strains my eyes and thus I avoid it. Last time I looked, the tagging and filtering system was not very well thought. And it has, IMHO, long loading times.

Now compare that to e.g. armaholic. Couldn't say I love the design :) but it runs in my browser. I inspect the mods I want in tabs, organize the things, use Six Updater to download them; I feel I'm in control and know whats going on.

But yes, there are downsides. When I started to learn the whole eco-system, it took ages to understand things. Srsly, Six Updater needs a diploma to get it ;-) Maybe those who are already "part of the eco-system" of BIS products are used to the way it works and it works for them. But it's likely not every newcomer friendly and my whole POV is just that: subjective. But hey, that's OK, no, since this is a poll-thread? :)

But my point is, steam has the power to install and auto update your mods. people said it doesnt when it does.

Also, how do you manage with six updater then? that doesnt have a fully customised UI, you cant change fonts, colours etc so how can you dismiss steam for none customizable UI compared to Six updater?

And like i said, Arma 3 NEEDS SOME sort of steam/battlelog system in place.

All i was suggesting is that if BIS dont have the time and man power to create their own, they should use existing ones like steam/origin whatever.

Most people play this game online. it is a PVE at its finest. thats what the Arma series is all about, PVE/PVP.

[maddogx 13]

Forcing Steam on everyone just for the mod management in Steamworks would be complete and utter overkill. We know BIS are planning to implement better mod management in Arma3, so what would we need Steamworks for? Stats, leaderboards and achievements? No thanks.

[jonneymendoza 10]

Forcing Steam on everyone just for the mod management in Steamworks would be complete and utter overkill. We know BIS are planning to implement better mod management in Arma3, so what would we need Steamworks for? Stats, leaderboards and achievements? No thanks.

Do people actually read before they post? please re-read my posts again stating why a system like steam benefits and while you are at it. can you also highlight in bold where i mentioned stats, leaderboards and achievement.

Cleary you have not read any of my posts, even the one above yours!

[maddogx 13]

Do people actually read before they post? please re-read my posts again stating why a system like steam benefits and while you are at it. can you also highlight in bold where i mentioned stats, leaderboards and achievement.

Cleary you have not read any of my posts, even the one above yours!

I wasn't responding to your post(s), just stating why I think Steamworks is not needed.

[rfc 10]

Also, how do you manage with six updater then? that doesnt have a fully customised UI, you cant change fonts, colours etc so how can you dismiss steam for none customizable UI compared to Six updater?

Well, the thing is this. I'm on Windows 7 and have a certain DPI set. And configured my browser for bigger fonts.

Six Updater is a native Windows-Application (okok, C# with Ruby anyway), but it uses WPF to "draw it" and thus it respects my operation system presets in terms of colors, fonts, etc. And it provides me with rich details ... but, don't understand me wrongly, for me SU is just the updater application, not the one I use to "find" the mods.

But as you see, for those specific points there's no drawback for me, like nearly every other Windows software just works for me because I can and do configure Windows and it is simply respected. The integrated Steam browser, based on Webkit last time I checked, simply does nothing in that regard and ignores everything. I'm even to say any kind of embedded browser is an ultimate fail for the user, because it ignores everything the user has set how he wants to experience the web. And the store as well as the workshop within Steam is just a web page, no matter how you turn it.

Hell, before Steam workshop there was the Nexus network (for Skyrim, Fallout, Morrorwind, etc.) and even that ones works better in terms of searching and finding mods.

I'm not saying Steam is evil/bad/whatever, but the Steamworkshop isn't yet there where others are (IMHO) and, like I initially said, I wouldn't yet want to see BIS products tied to this inferior thing.

[jonneymendoza 10]

Well, the thing is this. I'm on Windows 7 and have a certain DPI set. And configured my browser for bigger fonts.

Six Updater is a native Windows-Application (okok, C# with Ruby anyway), but it uses WPF to "draw it" and thus it respects my operation system presets in terms of colors, fonts, etc. And it provides me with rich details ... but, don't understand me wrongly, for me SU is just the updater application, not the one I use to "find" the mods.

But as you see, for those specific points there's no drawback for me, like nearly every other Windows software just works for me because I can and do configure Windows and it is simply respected. The integrated Steam browser, based on Webkit last time I checked, simply does nothing in that regard and ignores everything. I'm even to say any kind of embedded browser is an ultimate fail for the user, because it ignores everything the user has set how he wants to experience the web. And the store within Steam is just a web page, no matter how you turn it.

Steam is a constant changing application so your wishes for it to be fully customisable could come true. its not as if Valve stop working and updating steam mate. What if it did have customization. what will you say then?

[rfc 10]

Steam is a constant changing application so your wishes for it to be fully customisable could come true. its not as if Valve stop working and updating steam mate. What if it did have customization. what will you say then?

Like I initially said, I think it's not yet there. And only time will tell. I find the UX currently bad (visuals, flexibility of filtering system, transparency) and that's why I wouldn't want it. In its current form.

Edited May 22, 2012 by rfc

[Hicks_09 10]

Steam is a constant changing application so your wishes for it to be fully customisable could come true. its not as if Valve stop working and updating steam mate. What if it did have customization. what will you say then?

How about a reliable offline mode, how about not having to launch the client, how about having to opt-in for adverts as opposed to opt out. But hang on... wait... that would make it pointless as a drm so why would they do that??

Steamworks would be overkill. BIS implemented features that you're so desperate for would be a more practical and widely agreeable choice.

For wanting features that give centralised communication, updating and connection doing it via bloatware seems pretty counter productive.

[jonneymendoza 10]

How about a reliable offline mode, how about not having to launch the client, how about having to opt-in for adverts as opposed to opt out. But hang on... wait... that would make it pointless as a drm so why would they do that??

Steamworks would be overkill. BIS implemented features that you're so desperate for would be a more practical and widely agreeable choice.

For wanting features that give centralised communication, updating and connection doing it via bloatware seems pretty counter productive.

And that is my main point and if people READ exactly what i posted they would have found that out ages ago.

point = either implement a friends/buddy list and a easily managable mod GUI, or use steam. Its simple as that.

Nowhere did i mention achievements, stats and leaderboards as mentioned earlier on.

Agreed?

Do we all agree that we SHOULD have some form of friends list/GUI mod management centralised system for Arma 3? that is what the POLL should say

[batto 17]

Do we all agree that we SHOULD have some form of friends list/GUI mod management centralised system for Arma 3?

I'm with you on this though I don't need friend list. And it should be distributed and not centralized.

that is what the POLL should say

Poll says Should Steamworks be implemented into ArmA III?.

Stop pushing Steam on us. If it's optional I don't care (I wonder why anyone would be against it). Required? Hell no! Got it?

EDIT: It should be optional because I think it could help ArmA 3 sales which would boost Czech economy =)

Edited May 22, 2012 by batto

[Fenrisulven 1]

Quoting myself from the earlier Steam thread:

I stand behind your opinion completely. Steam .. No thanks.

[Shatter3D_S0uL 1]

no steam, keep it optional!!!!!

This.

[sirfire 0]

Sure. In my experience integration with Steam can help the community aspect of things with friends lists and groups such as already exist for Arma 2 on Steam. I like the idea of having achievements that provide incentive to do things that you would not try before. I also like the way that Steam patches your games and you do not have to worry about getting the latest patch yourself and wondering if you are on the same page as everyone else so to speak. I am fine with keeping it optional, I know some don't like Steamworks and that is fine but I would like it.

[rfc 10]

SP achievements are certainly nice, but MP could be problematic.

MP with a hardcore simulation system like Arma requires thinking and teamplay and thinking. Imagine you're in the middle of a battle and you'd need fire support but your mate decided to rather go for his achievements which would not match what you would need from him in a certain situation. Bummer. I've not invented this thinking, it has come up for Takedown and in a video it was answered that there would be no achievements (afaik Takedown is strictly MP or at least it's all about teamplay) for exactly this reason.

Of course you could come up with achievements which make sense in MP but they hide the potential to distract a player from it's greater goal he should fulfill in a certain situation. But no get me wrong, I find achievements OK (i.e. L4D etc.) but not automatically think they make sense for every game.

[metalcraze 290]

So far all achievements in games I've seen are 100% retarded and have absolutely nothing to do with achieving something.

Leave them out of ArmA3.

If you want to shoot 100 seagulls and feel good about it make a mission to do so in the editor.

[maddogx 13]

Challenge accepted.

[sirfire 0]

So far all achievements in games I've seen are 100% retarded and have absolutely nothing to do with achieving something.

Leave them out of ArmA3.

If you want to shoot 100 seagulls and feel good about it make a mission to do so in the editor.

No but seriously, achievements can be anything that the developers want them to be. Developers can even make the achievements encourage teamwork if they wished to do it. If Arma 3 was to have achievements I bet they would be like "beat this coop mission on hard" or "don't die once in a round"