Steamworks, add it in or not?

[maddogx 13]

no u dont. Again another user that doesnt know much about steam.

Are you the same person that said you HAVE to be online to launch steam lol

So how does one select a different install path for specific games? I see no such option.

[dmarkwick 261]

So how does one select a different install path for specific games? I see no such option.

No, neither did I. The solutions I've seen involve redirection via the OS or some third party app. Hardly an intuitive and smooth process :)

[Herbal Influence 10]

Self-esteem instead of steam pls. Steam only creates hot vapor.

[Fenrisulven 1]

I just bought Metro2033 just to try it out and didn't have Steam installed on my new rig. Had to struggle with it for over 2 hours :annoy: installing Steam, updating it, getting Steam to install from DVD instead of downloading everything and finally I could not start the game until it was updated and the update kept failing with all kinds of errors, like "Steam servers are too busy. Try again at a later time". Offline mode not working etc. by the time I got it running it was too late to start playing.

So yes I stand by my opinion to keep A3 Steam free! The A2 DRM worked perfectly. Either you could unlock the product online or keep the DVD in the drive. Easy as pie and you don't have to install anything else but the game AND you can start playing it immediately once it's installed. The way it's supposed to be IMO.

---------- Post added at 09:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 AM ----------

Don't get me wrong. Digital distribution is the future, no doubt, but online DRM is not. I don't get that concept, seriously. If someone downloads pirated software then they have already worked around the online verification process, and only those who paid for the product are stuck with it. So what is the point? Why make it more frustrating to be a honest customer? Whoever thought of it must be a complete moron.

[jonneymendoza 10]

So it seems that Steam is yet another process that you must research & learn before you can make it behave in a useful way?

Again, no thanks :) it seems to be an entirely unnecessary layer of obstruction unless you've learnt it, not much to recommend it over the current method :)

if you cant work out how to use steam, then god knows how u got arma 2 plus the zillions of mods worked.

---------- Post added at 02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------

No, neither did I. The solutions I've seen involve redirection via the OS or some third party app. Hardly an intuitive and smooth process :)

just like arma 2,s mod manager support? o wait there is none, you need to use a third party one like six updater! nooooooooooo

[dmarkwick 261]

if you cant work out how to use steam, then god knows how u got arma 2 plus the zillions of mods worked.

I know, it's mad isn't it? I must be retarded.

Then again, I don't NEED to learn all the ins & outs of Steam.

---------- Post added at 14:17 ---------- Previous post was at 14:15 ----------

just like arma 2,s mod manager support? o wait there is none, you need to use a third party one like six updater! nooooooooooo

Not a good enough reason to tie it to Steam I'm afraid :)

[pathetic_berserker 4]

if you cant work out how to use steam, then god knows how u got arma 2 plus the zillions of mods worked.

---------- Post added at 02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------

just like arma 2,s mod manager support? o wait there is none, you need to use a third party one like six updater! nooooooooooo

Steam enema is third party to six updater being 3rd party. SU is supported quite vigorously and anyone who claims opening SU and right clicking the mod line or preset to update or launch is a clunky UI has some difficult to define issues.

Why you pushing steamworks monopoly?

[jblackrupert 14]

So it seems that Steam is yet another process that you must research & learn before you can make it behave in a useful way?

Again, no thanks :) it seems to be an entirely unnecessary layer of obstruction unless you've learnt it, not much to recommend it over the current method :)

This ^^^^

I shouldn't have to dig through pages and pages of forum posts trying to figure out how to do simple things.

Speaking of Steam. Iron Front 1.02 patch is out.

DVD/Sprocket version: 47.2 MB

Steam Version: 2+ GB. and a day late.

[NielsS 10]

if you cant work out how to use steam, then god knows how u got arma 2 plus the zillions of mods worked. Just like arma 2,s mod manager support? o wait there is none, you need to use a third party one like six updater! nooooooooooo

That is the lamest reason i have ever heard why Arma 3 should be a steamworks game. FYI i have never had any problems with mods for OFP, Arma and Arma2/OA, but have had many problems with Steam.

Steam is just a glorified DRM just as EA's craptastic Origin or Ubisofts persistent online crap. And let's not forget Blizzards fuckup called Diablo 3. Who cares about some real money auction house, i just want to PLAY THE FUCKING GAME....in Singleplayer....Offline!!!!:681: Thank god there is Torchlight 2 wich is much cheaper, has NO DRM and the best thing of all, it's not on Steam!

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Steam is just a glorified DRM just as EA's craptastic Origin or Ubisofts persistent online crap. And let's not forget Blizzards fuckup called Diablo 3. Who cares about some real money auction house, i just want to PLAY THE FUCKING GAME....in Singleplayer....Offline!!!!

Just did a 4.5 gig update to BF3, WTF. Couldn't be blamed for thinking these guys are taking a cut from ISP billers. They are all just as bad.

[BinaryCode64 1]

I never ever had a problem with steam. And I have been using it since 2006. Their are ways to start steam games without steam you know. And steam is a hell of a lot easier to use then six updater.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

And steam is a hell of a lot easier to use then six updater.

It might be easy to use, but with regards to ArmA 2, Steam can perform about 1% of the tasks that Six Updater can.

[jelf 1]

If you like steam, good, go ahead and use it. I'm using steam for Arma 2 as well.

But please try not to force others to do what you like to do. Making a thread/poll like this is just giving Bohemia another reason to force Steam on everyone. Luckily though, people who oppose forced steam is still more this time.

However, if you make a similar thread/poll(trying to make everyone do what you like to do) next time and unluckily more people support you. Then remember, what you are trying to encourage is just the tyranny of majority.

People should have the chance to choose. As long as they are not affecting other people(of course, unless you are mad that they won't use steam and your full steam achievements have no one else to show off to).

[Lightninguk 0]

no steam it bad for adding mods and stuff like allways i will be buying it thur sprocket brought all my arma games thur them and have no trouble with it "so spocket all the way"

[onlyrazor 11]

After my experiences with trying to launch Max Payne 3, I'll just say: no, fuck no. Steam is the devil's bloatware.

[BinaryCode64 1]

I guess I just like the idea of BI not having to develop their own (party/friendslist/chat/auto-update/six-updater) software integrated in arma 3. Because they have bigger things to get right. Having the need to use thirthparty software should be a thing of the past. Steam does very well on creating a hub for all your games, and in some extend so do consoles. At the moment game developers are trying to make their "own" little hub for THEIR games (ubisoft for example who are ALSO in steam), however a lot of people are annoyed about this because it separates their "hub" into different software AND requires you to register for different company's.

I can't see that kind of software succeeding unless it starts to take in games that are not made by the same developers. Having to choose between steam, origin and others would be ideal in 5-10 years time. In the end, even company's like blizzard who are highly succesful will need to stop using battlenet or integrate battlenet to be more suitable in those kind of software. I also suspect that the 720 and ps4 are going to have better mod capabilities. UT3 already has this ability on the 360, its not a lot but its something.

[batto 17]

@BinaryCode64: I've better idea. BIS should use Facebook for chat/party/friendlist! Everybody uses it!!! Nothing else can compete!!!!!!

Hell no :j:

What makes you think that integrating Steam crap will be satisfying and easier than adopting SU and making their own social stuff (using ready things like jabber for chat for example)? Can Steam show my rank in certain group for example?

Edited June 2, 2012 by batto

[BinaryCode64 1]

@BinaryCode64: I've better idea. BIS should use Facebook for chat/party/friendlist! Everybody uses it!!! Nothing else can compete!!!!!!

Hell no :j:

What makes you think that integrating Steam crap will be satisfying and easier than adopting SU and making their own social stuff (using ready things like jabber for chat for example)? Can Steam show my rank in certain group for example?

It would take less time to develop so they can focus on making the game better and it helps making a hub for your games(which I highly recommend you try). No it can't show rank in group. But rank does not matter as much as being able to be in a group, be chatting and connecting to servers as a party. Rank is usually tracked by the game itself. For example cs go is made by VALVe the creaters of steam and also only shows rank in the game not in chat. Have you ever used steam longer then 5min? For lets say... 1 month? Just asking.

[batto 17]

It would take less time to develop so they can focus on making the game better and it helps making a hub for your games(which I highly recommend you try).

Can you provide more in-depth analysis? I assume that by "hub" you mean roster/chat/group thing. I say that it would take more time to make it via Steam then doing it with other stuff (like extending Jabber or complete in-house thing). Prove me wrong please.

Have you ever used steam longer then 5min? For lets say... 1 month? Just asking.

Just for launching CS and connecting to match where my friend was playing. I also spent week on Steam support to recover my password so I could play CS (it wasn't paid by my credit card so it was more problematic).

[BinaryCode64 1]

Can you provide more in-depth analysis? I assume that by "hub" you mean roster/chat/group thing. I say that it would take more time to make it via Steam then doing it with other stuff (like extending Jabber or complete in-house thing). Prove me wrong please.

Just for launching CS. I also spent week on Steam support to recover my password so I could play CS (it wasn't paid by my credit card so it was more problematic).

By hub I mean finding all your games in the same spot. Something that gives me great pleasure btw. Its the same feeling you get when all your dvd's/blu rays are in the same spot. It just makes sense.

Its funny how people think that they could just buy six-updater and stuff like that and just seamlessly integrate that. It doesn't work that way. That software isn't made to be integrated into anything + it might be in a different programming language, which isn't insurmountable but does make it more complicated. Steam on the other hand is set-up to be more forgiving for integration because it would make sense for them to do that. And if you want BI to make everything themselves it WOULD GO FASTER then integrating six-updater and stuff. BUT it would be longer than steams integration because they would still need to create all the code themselves, which steam already have.

Summary:

Made for integration > Create yourselves > Not made for integration

+ If it would have their own chat system and whatnot, it would be more annoying for the people who DO use steam because they get to deal with steams chat AND BI's chat. And eventho you can turn steam chat off, it seems that I'm the only person on the planet who knows that there is an option for that.

[batto 17]

By hub I mean finding all your games in the same spot. Something that gives me great pleasure btw. Its the same feeling you get when all your dvd's/blu rays are in the same spot. It just makes sense.

I use desktop icons for finding & launching my games (or directory with desktop icons). It takes less memory and it doesn't have permanent connection to Valve so I can launch them anytime. It's great feature of Windows, you should try. Why is list of games in Steam better than list of icons on desktop (or whatever thing you use for launching programs)?

Its funny how people think that they could just buy six-updater and stuff like that and just seamlessly integrate that. It doesn't work that way.

Its funny how people think that they could just buy Steamworks and just seamlessly integrate that. It doesn't work that way.

That software isn't made to be integrated into anything + it might be in a different programming language, which isn't insurmountable but does make it more complicated. Steam on the other hand is set-up to be more forgiving for integration because it would make sense for them to do that.

To use Steamworks you need to use their library with C++ API in your program. It's just your imagination that it'll be easier than with other software (maybe it'll but you still fail to show some proof).

And if you want BI to make everything themselves it WOULD GO FASTER then integrating six-updater and stuff. BUT it would be longer than steams integration because they would still need to create all the code themselves, which steam already have.

Nope. Steam isn't the only software that can do firends and chat. They could use A LOT of other existing software (even for free).

Ever visited Steamworks FAQ? It's

Summary:

Made for integration > Create yourselves > Not made for integration

That looks like some marketing crap. You should visit this FAQ http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php.

But again, if it's optional I don't care.

Edited June 2, 2012 by batto

[BinaryCode64 1]

I use desktop icons for finding & launching my games (or directory with desktop icons). It takes less memory and it doesn't have permanent connection to Valve so I can launch them anytime. It's great feature of Windows, you should try. Why is list of games in Steam better than list of icons on desktop (or whatever thing you use for launching programs)?

Its funny how people think that they could just buy Steamworks and just seamlessly integrate that. It doesn't work that way.

To use Steamworks you need to use their library with C++ API in your program. It's just your imagination that it'll be easier than with other software (maybe it'll but you still fail to show some proof).

Nope. Steam isn't the only software that can do firends and chat. They could use A LOT of other existing software (even for free).

That looks like some marketing crap. You should visit this FAQ http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php.

But again, if it's optional I don't care.

I guess I just like combining my games, my friendslist, my clans and such in 1 place. If you want to use different kinds of software for that and clutter your PC so be it. It all doesn't matter anyway. The topic at hand is steams usage vs BI potentialy making the same stuff vs other thirthparty software. Not steam vs desktop.

I didn't say it was going to be seamless I said it would be easier.

Wikipedia quote "An application programming interface (API) is a specification intended to be used as an interface by software components to communicate with each other." This means that steam has code in its software specifically made to ease integration. Thank you. You just proved my point! I currently have visual studio 2010 open, its a matter of downloading the steams alterd version C++ API files and adding them to your project. Then ofc you still need to code some and link arma 3 to steam.

By buying other software that doesn't have code that makes it easier to integrate it (which is a lot of software). Then they would need to look at the software's code, try and understand it (important) and then in essence copy/paste the classes they need into arma3. After that they still need to take out a lot of bugs (which happens a lot if you just copy/pasted in code) and optimize it. Creating the code themselves would create less bugs and they won't have to try and understand the code that they have just being given.

It also would not surprise me if steam would actually have a good amount of information on how to link the software to them.

I now know for a fact that steam takes the least amount of time to do.

[batto 17]

I guess I just like combining my games, my friendslist, my clans and such in 1 place. If you want to use different kinds of software for that and clutter your PC so be it.

Clutter my PC with Firefox, Miranda and desktop icons instead of Steam? Good one.

By buying other software that doesn't have code that makes it easier to integrate it (which is a lot of software). Then they would need to look at the software's code, try and understand it (important) and then in essence copy/paste the classes they need into arma3. After that they still need to take out a lot of bugs (which happens a lot if you just copy/pasted in code) and optimize it. Creating the code themselves would create less bugs and they won't have to try and understand the code that they have just being given.

Every 3rd party library have API (aka code that makes it easier to integrate) or it's not library. Even software not intended to be library has API (ArmA for example).

I now know for a fact that steam takes the least amount of time to do.

Nope. You've just looked up API on Wikipedia.

[BinaryCode64 1]

Every 3rd party library have API (aka code that makes it easier to integrate) or it's not library. Even software not intended to be library has API (ArmA for example).

Wrong! Depending on the software your creating you need different kinds of library's. If their is no reason to put in a library that is made for the sole purpose of integration then by common sense that library will not be included. If I am using the entity framework for persisting a database then why would I include Nhibernate's library's in my project? Same idea, doesn't make sense to include an library if you don't mean to use it!

---------- Post added at 16:56 ---------- Previous post was at 16:23 ----------

Clutter my PC with Firefox, Miranda and desktop icons instead of Steam? Good one.

Every 3rd party library have API (aka code that makes it easier to integrate) or it's not library. Even software not intended to be library has API (ArmA for example).

Nope. You've just looked up API on Wikipedia.

Btw don't use firefox, use chrome. And yes I looked up API on wiki because its damn hard if not impossible remembering ALL IT specific terms. Its not like API is something that is talked about a lot in the programming world.

[Herbal Influence 10]

I want Bohemia Interactive to stay independent.

I want Bohemia Interactive guys to get my money and noone else.

If it happens that 55 % of their income comes from steam, they are no more free in their decisions.

Steam-guys want to make money, money, money with products that can be used easily without them.

NO, thank you.

See my signature. Freedom. Counts. And cannot be divided.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Herbal Influence