Steamworks, add it in or not?

[Dwarden 1125]

i have little suggestion for these who with enabled steam have slow computer ... disable your friends list (just close the window) ...

for some reason the enabled friends window is capable tank most of one core on even quad system

[Bomber_c 0]

Sigh....I hate when people say that Steam "forces" updates. They do not force updates; you can turn off automatic updates for any game you wish.

In my experience, games have magically enabled automatic updates even after I had disabled them.

[Guess Who 10]

Correct. I have 120+ games on Steam. I believe most if not all of them were bought on sales (Except ArmA II OA and DLC). Most games that I got on Steam, I already have the disc, I just rebuy it again on Steam for the convenience.

Well, I prefer quality over quantity ... :eek:

And I can afford to pay full prize for a full game with a nice full box of ArmA goodness. So NO to intrusive DRM measures. Period.

[Nicholas 5]

Well, I prefer quality over quantity ... :eek:

And I can afford to pay full prize for a full game with a nice full box of ArmA goodness.

I can afford to pay full price as well. I just have more important things to spend that saved cash on. Like I said, most of the games I have on Steam I already have on disc and I just rebuy it for the convenience.

[jblackrupert 14]

i have little suggestion for these who with enabled steam have slow computer ... disable your friends list (just close the window) ...

for some reason the enabled friends window is capable tank most of one core on even quad system

Steam is just bloatware. People have been struggling to get it to play nice on their systems since 2003 when it was still new.

Some people for whatever reason don't have the sluggishness problem

it's kinda like Arma, some systems no matter how tricked out they are just can't seem to get the same performance that others with weaker systems get.

If it wasn't for the availability of games and sales Steam would have been dumped long ago.

[Nicholas 5]

It seems as though a majority of the users do not want Steam integration whatsoever.

Why is this thread still open?

[maddogx 13]

If it wasn't for the availability of games and sales Steam would have been dumped long ago.

Read: if it wasn't for the awesome quality of service, it would have failed. I agree. :D

[jblackrupert 14]

Read: if it wasn't for the awesome quality of service, it would have failed. I agree. :D

Quality/Service.....Nope. The occasional sales just blind people to the fact that they're getting less and less and pretty much own none of it.

But then again, I'm one of those old farts who remembers a time when

games came with 100 page manuals, games based on books came with a copy of the actual book, cloth maps, figurines... etc.

What we had back then is now called "Limited editions" and cost $150

[kororas 10]

I do like Steam, but I don't think Arma really suits Steam. BIS does a good job without requiring the use of Steam's services (such as Steamworks) and i personally would prefer if Arma was kept standalone only so BIS could concentrate on one sole platform - their own.

[dmarkwick 261]

Quality/Service.....Nope. The occasional sales just blind people to the fact that they're getting less and less and pretty much own none of it.

But then again, I'm one of those old farts who remembers a time when

games came with 100 page manuals, games based on books came with a copy of the actual book, cloth maps, figurines... etc.

What we had back then is now called "Limited editions" and cost $150

Well I too lament the lack of decent & consice manuals, I'm thinking of the likes of Falcon 4, Flight Simulator, Longbow 2 etc. But, it seems to me there are very few releases that actually require such an inclusion. For these titles, Steam is suited :)

And, you have never owned the software you apparently purchased: you have only ever owned a license to run the software.

I'm not big on Steam myself, I still prefer the hard copy product. But, I like the idea of simply installing Steam on any machine I own in the future, and having access to any software title I ever ran through Steam :) But, I reckon I also got that through Sprocket too, but without the intrusion that Steam represents.

[celery 8]

And, you have never owned the software you apparently purchased: you have only ever owned a license to run the software.

That is a moot point. The media and the license with it had always been transferable by handing it over before distributors got the idea that they'll prevent it instead.

[rainbird 1]

And, you have never owned the software you apparently purchased: you have only ever owned a license to run the software.

last year I sold my copy of an OS called MorphOS and a music program called Reason. I didn't want people using customer support accounts I'd registered in my name. So on both occasions I transferred ownership of the software. Both developers were happy to transfer the ownership over to the new owners and Reason's support site automates transferal...you don't have to "ask for permission" - they just naturally assume it to be your right to sell your own license. I've never tried, but I believe Microsoft will do the same if you ever wanted to sell your copy of Windows (?).

If I didn't already know I would be asking why, suddenly, we're are not allowed to sell games we own. can't for the life of me understand why Steam customers do not question this critical point.

i and no, I'm not "hating" on Steam. i just cannot fathom this one single fundamental point.

[jakerod 254]

I vote for keeping it the way it is now. If you want it on Steam, get it on Steam. If you want retail or Sprocket use one of those. If you use Steam and have a problem with the way it patches, take it up with Valve. Everybody wins!

[dmarkwick 261]

That is a moot point. The media and the license with it had always been transferable by handing it over before distributors got the idea that they'll prevent it instead.

last year I sold my copy of an OS called MorphOS and a music program called Reason. I didn't want people using customer support accounts I'd registered in my name. So on both occasions I transferred ownership of the software. Both developers were happy to transfer the ownership over to the new owners and Reason's support site automates transferal...you don't have to "ask for permission" - they just naturally assume it to be your right to sell your own license. I've never tried, but I believe Microsoft will do the same if you ever wanted to sell your copy of Windows (?).

If I didn't already know I would be asking why, suddenly, we're are not allowed to sell games we own. can't for the life of me understand why Steam customers do not question this critical point.

i and no, I'm not "hating" on Steam. i just cannot fathom this one single fundamental point.

Oh yeah, for sure :) I myself have a Lightwave license that was transferred to me, although I guess in that case the license was associated with the dongle. I always thought the perfect "document" for licensing should be the CD/DVD itself, each one having a unique code right in the media, but I guess that would be too much cost, hence 32 character codes printed onto manuals :)

As for companies deciding that such transfers are to be disallowed, at a legal level I guess that's the company's licensing decision. On a practical level some game distributors are starting to limit content to original owners only, example being the Batman Arkham City release that has a single-use code to activate "bonus" ingame content. You buy that game second hand, you don't get that bonus content. I guess it's a toe-in-the-water test for future restrictions.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Car manufacturers should take the same approach. If you're a second hand buyer, the fuel lid doesn't come off anymore.

Btw, polls doesn't look very nice (white text on white background) on the dark gui.

[Nicholas 5]

Take a look at the EULA guys.

All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the

Program and any and all copies thereof (including but not limited to any titles,

computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, narrative,

locations, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audiovisual effects,

methods of operation, any related documentation, and addons incorporated into the

Program) are owned by Bohemia Interactive a.s. (the Licensor) or its licensors.The

Program is protected by the Czech copyright laws, international copyright treaties

and conventions and any other applicable laws. All rights are reserved.

the Licensor hereby grants, and by installing the Program

you thereby accept, a restricted, non-exclusive license and right to install and use one

(1) copy of the Program for your personal use. You may not network the Program or

otherwise install it or use it on more than one computer at a time, except if expressly

authorized otherwise in the applicable documentation. The Program is licensed, not

sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Program

You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this

License to the recipient, provided that the recipient agrees to the terms of this

License and you remove the Program from your compute

This License is effective until terminated.You may terminate the

License at any time by destroying the Program and any New Material. The Licensor

may, at its discretion, terminate this License in the event that you fail to comply with

the terms and conditions contained herein. In such event, you must immediately

destroy the Program and any New Material

Basically, you do not actually own the game, it is technically just a license to use the game. You automatically agree to the EULA upon installing the game.

[celery 8]

Take a look at the EULA guys.

Basically, you do not actually own the game, it is technically just a license to use the game. You automatically agree to the EULA upon installing the game.

You see the EULA only after you have made the purchase. Plus, "you only own the license" means nothing at all because it's obvious in any case that you're not allowed to sell burned copies of it. Stating that phrase brings nothing to the table when the matter at hand is whether a soulbinding policy sucks or not.

[Nicholas 5]

You see the EULA only after you have made the purchase.

Correct. You purchase the game, then look in the manual and read the EULA before installing. The first part of the EULA reads this:

If you do not agree to the terms of this Agreement, do not

install or use the Program. You may, however, return it to your place of purchase

for a full refund.

The only problem with this is that most stores will not refund your money if you have opened the game. In that case, I'm assuming you would contact BI.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Nicholas

[Choki 10]

I hate steam so... no

[rainbird 1]

You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this

License to the recipient, provided that the recipient agrees to the terms of this

License and you remove the Program from your compute

problem with that statement is that you are actually NOT allowed to transfer Steam licenses using Steam. perhaps they should honour the EULA of the games they distribute?

and again, "copyright" and "ownership of a license" are two different concepts which should not be confused.

Edited February 5, 2012 by rainbird

[metalcraze 290]

I voted no then and I would vote no today. No to Steam-exclusive and especially no to Steamworks.

With the current awful quality of Steam connectivity with constant disconnects - Steamworks will simply make it impossible to play MP because as soon as you lose connection to Steam (regardless of the internet connection) even for a second - you are getting kicked from an MP game.

This is retarded and I don't want this in ArmA.

Edited February 5, 2012 by metalcraze

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

I voted no then and I would vote no today. No to Steam-exclusive and especially no to Steamworks.

With the current awful quality of Steam connectivity with constant disconnects - Steamworks will simply make it impossible to play MP because as soon as you lose connection to Steam (regardless of the internet connection) even for a second - you are getting kicked from an MP game.

This is retarded and I don't want this in ArmA.

This isnt true.

I have my comp on 24/7 and I am connected to Steam and its stats rivals my dsl modems online stats.

I have about 800 hours logged in Steam on Arma 2/OA/CO. I wouldnt have that if it was unstable... If Steam goes down you might have issues with Valve games, using the same server network, but not necessarily other MP games. Steam also has a offline mode which makes it possible to access games that use Gamespy to get online like Arma.

[metalcraze 290]

That's because ArmA2/OA/CO have no Steamworks. Read my post again.

[Bee8190 10]

I might be a bit ignorant here but i cant see any real benefits of this... and my purchase will be from sprocket anyways

and I dont like steam too

Edited February 6, 2012 by Bee8190

[Rebel44 10]

I might be a bit ignorant here but i cant see any real benefits of this...

For example Steam Workshop is nice way to manage/install mods.