Steamworks, add it in or not?

[metalcraze 290]

Or you can download Six Updater made specifically with ArmA in mind.

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

Or you can download Six Updater made specifically with ArmA in mind.

I know more Arma people that use Steam than Six updater and that includes the "six updater" clan I play with regularly.

Stuff like Steam Workshop would greatly improve access to mods for the average Arma user. You are right, thats not me. I have Arma Launcher, Six updater and etc installed already. Also have... about 66gigs of mods. Hardly the average I would presume, but I am not arguing for whats best for me, but the Arma community as I see it beyond the borders of the peeps using this forum.

I would bet most mod creators would like their work to be seen by as many people as possible and Steam makes that access easier for the majority.

Specially when most of the Arma 2/Steam issues talked about here are directly linked to the fact that there is a none Steam version of Arma 2, not the other way around like most Steam haters wants people to believe.

Steam WorkShop tag text for Skyrim:

Now you can easily discover, rate, and download Skyrim mods directly through Steam. The Steam Workshop makes it easy to browse the most popular, newest or highest-rated mods of all time, as well as searching for specific content via tags such as “Armorâ€, “Questsâ€, “Dungeonsâ€, and more. You can even see what your friends have added to their favorites. Once you’ve found something awesome, click the “Subscribe†button. The next time you play Skyrim, the launcher will automatically install the latest version of any subscribed mods and configure Skyrim to run them.

With a few alterations and launch options I could see this system work very well for Arma 3. Might even bring in some new players to peoples ultra many mod servers out there.

[Trapper 0]

I don't want ArmA to be Steam exclusive.

Has anybody who's talking about "owning" over hundred Steam games ever read the EULA?

We pay up to retail prices for just subscriptions.

STEAM® SUBSCRIBER AGREEMENT

[...]

2. LICENSES

A. License Terms.

[...]

Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement and the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software.

[...]

12. AMENDMENTS TO THIS AGREEMENT

Valve may amend this Agreement at any time in its sole discretion. As a Subscriber, you agree that Valve may amend the terms of this Agreement. If Valve amends the Agreement, such amendment shall be effective thirty (30) days after your receiving notice of the amended Agreement, either via e-mail or as a notification within the Software. You can view the Agreement at any time at http://www.steampowered.com/. Your failure to cancel your Account thirty (30) days after receiving notification of an amended Agreement will mean that you accept all such amendments. If you don't agree to the amendments or to any of the terms in this Agreement, your only remedy is to cancel your Account or a particular Subscription.

[...]

13. TERM AND TERMINATION

Either you or Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time. You understand and agree that the cancellation of your Account or a particular Subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with Valve.

[...]

[Rebel44 10]

I don't want ArmA to be Steam exclusive.

Has anybody who's talking about "owning" over hundred Steam games ever read the EULA?

We pay up to retail prices for just subscriptions.

Its almost exactly same EULA as with any other digital distribution service. Just slightly different words.

taken from http://www.sprocketidea.com

We make no claims, nor apply any assertion that our Site is suitable or configured for access for anyone outside of the Czech Republic. Further you agree that any legal response or action resulting from use or service of the Site shall be pursuant to Czech law and shall be filed or submitted only within the jurisdiction or remit of the Czech courts.

...

The right to access our Site or use our services is strictly held by us and we reserve the right to remove or limit your access to the site or the access to the services of our Site for any or no reason.

.....

This agreement shall supersede any and all previous agreements of any nature between you and us regarding and respecting our Site, or products or services offered by our Site.

Also none of us own any games at all - only thing that is being sold to customer is limited licence with proper EULA.

If you own software, you can for example make your own copes and sell them whereever you wish.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Rebel44

[celery 8]

Also none of us own any games at all - only thing that is being sold to customer is limited licence with proper EULA.

If you own software, you can for example make your own copes and sell them whereever you wish.

What is your statement even supposed to mean? I can resell most of my physical copies of games just fine and nobody has the right to forcefully take them away, and I obviously am not allowed to make pirate copies of them in any case. I can't sell my Steam games though. Does your "you don't own your games" change any of that, other than making you a big liar any time you say "I bought this game on Steam" instead of "I bought a limited license to this game on Steam"?

[Dwarden 1125]

Rebel44 i concur ... Good Old Games service for online distribution has no 'limitations' like these ...

so there are exceptions to prove the point

[dmarkwick 261]

The difference with Steam is that it layers its own EULA over the developer's EULA. So they can remove your access to ALL your games simply by disabling your account - which they can do for any reason they wish and not even inform you of that reason - and you have no comeback, no recourse. You need Steam, and if you don't have it you cannot run your games. Sprocket on the other hand merely provides the software for you to then run as you wish. It doesn't manage it for you.

[jblackrupert 14]

I'd be fine with Steam if they just ditched the client requirement for running games.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Steam = completely pointless

[Slides 10]

Steam is now the only way that I buy games and so do all the people I know who are into gaming. Adding the Creation workshop would make finding and installing mods that much easier.

There is no good reason I can think of from a uer point of view to not fully integrate with Steam.

---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 PM ----------

What is your statement even supposed to mean? I can resell most of my physical copies of games just fine and nobody has the right to forcefully take them away, and I obviously am not allowed to make pirate copies of them in any case. I can't sell my Steam games though. Does your "you don't own your games" change any of that, other than making you a big liar any time you say "I bought this game on Steam" instead of "I bought a limited license to this game on Steam"?

Who owns CDs in this day and age? I haven't used my optical drive in years.

[Nicholas 5]

Who owns CDs in this day and age? I haven't used my optical drive in years.

I gotta admit, I can't remember the last game or album I bought on a disc. The only time I use my DVD-Reader/Writer is to burn music onto CD's or to burn a photo album. Most of my old games on disc are just collecting dust as I have rebought the digital copy.

[celery 8]

Who owns CDs in this day and age? I haven't used my optical drive in years.

Where are all the game CDs and DVDs that you used to have? Could it be that you actually sold them or gave them away? Now, wasn't that convenient? :rolleyes:

[Slides 10]

Where are all the game CDs and DVDs that you used to have? Could it be that you actually sold them or gave them away? Now, wasn't that convenient? :rolleyes:

I still have a lot of them lying around and anytime I have sold them in the recent past, I have just sold the CD key.

[nodunit 397]

Just CD's? Pah I keep the boxes and everything on a small shelf as I would movies. I don't really mind any space they 'take up', hell I even have the bigger bulky boxes that came such as armored fist, Janes Naval Warfare, Command & Conquer Theater of War even though I also have the first decade..and even my banged up Operation Flashpoint GOTY box.

They add some extra personality and there is no shame in having a large collection of a hobby, and makes for some conversation when friends or hell even strangers come over. I remember visiting a friends friend, complete stranger to me and seeing his collection of 90's simulations, Janes longbow, Janes Naval command, and so on...after some talking he showed me a few games, and then he showed me Operation Flashpoint, had his collection not been on any display we'd likely not have talked much nor what I have discovered OFP much less Arma.

The only time it becomes a problem is when you get sloppy about it, leaving boxes in places or upturned rather than organized neatly...that and you can't SSSNFFFF the nonexistant fresh booklet..

Steam is now the only way that I buy games and so do all the people I know who are into gaming. Adding the Creation workshop would make finding and installing mods that much easier.

There is no good reason I can think of from a uer point of view to not fully integrate with Steam.

How about the reason that some people simply don't want it to be steam or nothing. You may not purchase physical copies but that doesn't mean everyone follows that example nor should we be pushed to do so.

Edited February 11, 2012 by NodUnit

[dmarkwick 261]

There is no good reason I can think of from a uer point of view to not fully integrate with Steam.

Apart from if you have your Steam account locked for any reason.

[Neopas 10]

Especially since Steam doesn`t even have to explain ,to you ,the reason your account was locked,according to their EULA.

[volkov956 0]

No Don't agree with it on Closed Lan Networks not ideal at all Current Arma 2 runs fine in closed lan networks. Easy to boost your stats in Arma 2 online if u go that route u do have a map editor with unlimieted options.... I wouldnt call steam a enhancement but more of a Bloatware

Now the comment on who uses CD/DVD fir gaming i just turn around in my chair and have a wall of 650 CD/DVD PC games... thats my distribution hell with Digital Downloading games I dont have the bandwidth for that

[Flogger23m 2]

No. ArmA is a demanding game, I would prefer if Steam did not run in the background. Sell it on Steam but also sell versions that do not require it.

[160thSOAR 10]

I like to use Steam, but I know plenty of people who don't like it at all.

BIS should let people keep their freedom of choice as to whether they like to use Steam or a physical DVD. I've never used the optical drive on my computer, nor do I plan to anytime soon, but that doesn't mean everyone else feels that way.

And Steam does have its problems. Like how Offline Mode doesn't work unless you've already been online. Counterintuitive much?

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Why am I reading so many posts that imply steam is the only way to aquire a legit digital version of a game? BIS already has this covered so why would steam be considered necessary?

[jonneymendoza 10]

I like the feature of steamWorks. Will make modding this game ALOT easier as it will all be centralised and there will no longer need no thirdy party apps to maintain our mods. Plus the friends list on steam to allow u to join your mates server is cool too.

Cant understand why most here dont like Steam

[onlyrazor 11]

I like the feature of steamWorks. Will make modding this game ALOT easier as it will all be centralised and there will no longer need no thirdy party apps to maintain our mods. Plus the friends list on steam to allow u to join your mates server is cool too.

Cant understand why most here dont like Steam

A. When Steamworks is added, it's obligatory. There's no opt-out option. If you want to play the game, you need to run Steam.

B. When using Steam, you buy a license to a game, not the actual game itself. This means that you can get locked out for no reason, and people can have their accounts banned without any specification as to why.

C. Steam has plenty glitches of its own, such as offline mode not working if you haven't been online first.

There's more, but I don't recall all of it. All in all, people like having choices, and Steamworks doesn't offer any.

[metalcraze 290]

And as I've mentioned - the utterly retarded Steamworks DRM that treats you no better than Ubisoft.

Remember this Sunday aka the week day when most people play ArmA online? Well Steam and Steamworks were down. Which, if ArmA was to have Steamworks, meant no multiplay.

Yes even if you and people were connected and were playing the game - all of you would've been kicked out because if you lose connection to Steamworks even for a second - you are immediately a pirate.

Steam is horrible for anything but buying games.

And Workshop is crap. Good luck digging through thousands of mods to find the one you want whereas sites like Armaholic can be googled and provide a lot of info, screenshots, videos and news that Workshop doesn't.

[mrcash2009 0]

Having to be forced into it with purchasing Skyrim and not knowing via Game.co.uk which would lead me to steam to actually download it (didn't realise it at the time), which means I know use it (albeit offline 90 percent of the time and no other games I will buy through it) I would say "no".

I can see how handy it might be to users, but all in all I still prefer all my games no where near it. I like to own my data & not get it locked into a system with an off switch, its "nice" but I wont but anything through it. Physical or Sprocket ... nice & simple, heres your data, heres your key, heres a place to grab the updated as you see fit when they arrive from multiple mirrors & servers ... how it should always be, online stores and digital should act like a physical game in the same way even if its just data tranfer from a server.

I feel allot of Steam fan boys will one day shit a brick when the servers go down and cant login or net goes down for a time.

If I had a friend who acted like steam, they would be known as a control freak.

Edited February 14, 2012 by mrcash2009

[Nicholas 5]

I like to own my data & not get it locked into a system with an off switch, its "nice" but I wont but anything through it. Physical or Sprocket ...

You like Sprocket? I'm guessing you've never read the Sprocket Terms of Service? They are very similar to Steam, only with Steam you run their program.

Termination and Limitation of Access

The right to access our Site or use our services is strictly held by us and we reserve the right to remove or limit your access to the site or the access to the services of our Site for any or no reason.

13. TERM AND TERMINATION

Either you or Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time. You understand and agree that the cancellation of your Account or a particular Subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with Valve.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Nicholas