ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[rehtus777 10]

Ah, the 'birth pains' of change. The Die has been cast - it's a done deal. Now, the only thing we must do is be vigilant and make sure BIS doesn't mess with the Editor / Modding by limiting it (they can improve it, of course :p).

As I've said before and I'll say it again, we have to hope that huge profits made from Dayz / ArmA 3 don't change their core beliefs - they must stay true to what got them here. IOW's don't go down the road of DICE. Am I nervous about the move to "Steam"? A tad....not because of Steam, but because of BIS possibly losing focus on what got them here in the first place with the ArmA series. It was a "Mod" that kept them in the top 10 at steam for almost a year now; it was ACE that brought the simulator to another dimension; it was the "Mods" that took the Vanilla and made it "Rocky Road". I'm confident BIS will do the right thing.

[Hicks_09 10]

"They probably sold way more ArmaII copies on the Steamstore than they ever did through every other digital or retail shops combined. Even though that poll tended to be hostile regarding Steamworks, it only represents a couple hundreds votes against it. You're totally overreacting, it's ridiculous... "

And you are failing to make the distinction between Steam as a store and as a DRM client.

BIS could sell through Gamersgate, GOG, Origin, Steam, UPlay, Physical Retailers and a guy with a dog who sits on the corner between two roads but only on Thursdays. If that title requires Steam to be ran then there's a problem for some of us.

[dunedain 48]

I know that. The point I tried to make is that only a few hate Steam's guts like that, and you'll most likely found these individuals around here because they don't play many different games. Hence the obvious bias in that poll. Most people in this community, but not necessarily on these forums, don't mind Steam as they use it on daily basis. It shouldn't be such a big deal, as Steam is by far the least problematic DRM out there... Moreover Steamworks isn't just a DRM, it offers services that will makes things easier for many people, including BIS.

Edited February 22, 2013 by dunedain

[babylonjoke 22]

Dwarden, I appreciate a lot the work you did and you are doing for the community

But you can't say that the whole post it's invalid, just remove the "finding solutions to your bugs".

Modders worked for you for free (on their decisions yes, but because they love this game and this community), letting people enjoying more the game you provided. That's it.

I have spended 2 years of my life modding this game each damn day and now I see the doors closed for arma 3, after getting excited for it I just feel like an idiot.

Hardly someone will give anymore the same ammount of commitment with STEAM workshop risks. That's what I mean.

The ammount of people that travel on steam it's huge, really. Someone could take your contents and put it in some other game and you will never know who did that.

That could happnes on Armaholic too, true, but It's really harder and I really doubt that some Arma modder would ever steal your contents. Because we are like a "big family", we have rispect , and we are the usual suspects ;)

Nothing against the new players generation around the world, but most of them use steam, and they are a bounch of bastards that don't give a single fuck about anyone.

Thats something that didnt touched yet complitly the arma community.

I just don't want see the mod where I spended time and energy die.

If I'm wrong however, I'm happy.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Babylonjoke

[Tonci87 163]

I am getting the distinctive impression that people confuse the Steam Workshop with Steamworks, which are two entirely different things.

And that is why we need a Dev Q&A ASAP

So, here are my few questions/concerns:

1. Will we be able to revert to a previous game version/Beta if a new Patch/Beta breaks something?

2. Will you ever (a few months after release maybe?) introduce the possibility to start A3 SP or Editor without starting steam first? (Steam Update anyone?)

3. Mod support. What will change, what will be improved. Will it be possible to have different Startup Profiles like most current launchers have?

4. Dedicated Servers. Will they basically remain the same?

5. Will it be possible to have a "deactivate Steam UI" Server setting to prevent TvT Exploits? If you play with ACRE and you kill somebody, that person won´t be able to tell his comrades where the shot came from, this could change with the introduction of the steam chat.

[Maxzy 12]

I wonder if soon we will need a microchip just to play ARMA3. Seems like that's where we are headed.

Indeed. All this online DRMs kinda remind me of a recent Syndicate game world - there are people who got implants in their heads, using all advantages of modern digitalized wolrd, and there's trash living in slums, that nobody cares about, because they can't afford the implants. Evil Valve will take over the whole world and Mighty Gabe will become its Evil Emperor. Kinda sad :(.

Edited February 22, 2013 by MAXZY

[Hicks_09 10]

Well my point was that only a few hate Steam's guts like that, and you'll most likely found these individuals around here, most people in this community included don't mind Steam and many great games are Steamworks. It shouldn't be a big deal...

Don't mind or apathy? Don't mind or desire to play a title more overrides resistance to use a drm client? Don't mind or don't care? Don't mind or don't feel like they have a choice?

It's an issue of consumer rights and ownership, use and restrictions. If you are spending hard earned money then you should care what caveats and restrictions there are on your purchase and why there are more restrictions now than when there were.

[rfc 10]

Hey BIS,

I consider myself not a hardcore fan but at least I'm a loyal one (played the original OFP). I have over 100 games on Steam but even for me, Arma 2 was not a primary Steam game (just thinking about all the custom patches my installation has had). And I'm not a Steam fanboy at all. I barely use the social features and stuff.

I support you. As a game company, you have proven to be loyal to your fan base, been commited; working with the community to let them embrace your ecosystem like nearly no other company has. I want you to stay. I want you to succeed. Personally, I could wait for 2014 for Arma 3. Personally, I won't need the Steam version.

But if that is what you need to stay, succeed, survive, I'm going with you. You've my support.

BIS, thanks for all the great time you have given me so far, looking forward to what is coming.

-- Your loyal fan, signed.

[rehtus777 10]

Hey BIS,

I consider myself not a hardcore fan but at least I'm a loyal one (played the original OFP). I have over 100 games on Steam but even for me, Arma 2 was not a primary Steam game (just thinking about all the custom patches my installation has had). And I'm not a Steam fanboy at all. I barely use the social features and stuff.

I support you. As a game company, you have proven to be loyal to your fan base, been commited; working with the community to let them embrace your ecosystem like nearly no other company has. I want you to stay. I want you to succeed. Personally, I could wait for 2014 for Arma 3. Personally, I won't need the Steam version.

But if that is what you need to stay, succeed, survive, I'm going with you. You've my support.

BIS, thanks for all the great time you have given me so far, looking forward to what is coming.

-- Your loyal fan, signed.

+1. What he said :cool:

[shadowze 1]

I wonder if soon we will need a microchip just to play ARMA3. Seems like that's where we are headed.

Of course not , its an anal probe ... called steam

[Kerc Kasha 102]

Most of the EULA stuff isn't as malicious as you make it out to be, the statistics and behavioural use stuff is actually referring to the game stats, the heat maps and the opt in hardware survey that pops up maybe once every 6 months. The game stats include stuff like how long you played the game (for the community page) aswell as multiplayer stats that are used for balancing, I believe there may be some stat tracking for single player too. Heat maps refer to the level heat maps that valve uses for balancing their multiplayer maps, it shows where people go most, how many people die there etc etc. It's all there to improve on their games.

I know people are really finicky about their privacy but this isn't like origin where they're literally selling your personal information, the only mildly intrusive thing with steam is VAC which when palying vac enabled games, probably scans your computer for hacks. But punk buster and probably battle eye do something similar already and is sadly something we have to deal with regarding hackers.

[dunedain 48]

I have spended 2 years of my life modding this game each damn day and now I see the doors closed for arma 3, after getting excited for it I just feel like an idiot.

Hardly someone will give anymore the same ammount of commitment with STEAM workshop risks. That's what I mean.

If I'm wrong however, I'm happy.

Be happy then. You won't ever be forced to use the Workshop if you don't want to, Armaholic&co will still be needed. Just like Skyrim has both its Nexus and Workshop.

[tekgun2 0]

Next to this; platform independent dedicated severs will still be available, or not?

I also would like more information about running dedicated servers, are we going to have to run Steam software on the servers as well, and what else if anything is going to change with regards to running a dedi?

[Binkowski 26]

Dwarden, I appreciate a lot the work you did and you are doing for the community

But you can't say that the whole post it's invalid, just remove the "finding solutions to your bugs".

Modders worked for you for free (on their decisions yes, but because they love this game and this community), letting people enjoying more the game you provided. That's it.

I have spended 2 years of my life modding this game each damn day and now I see the doors closed for arma 3, after getting excited for it I just feel like an idiot.

Hardly someone will give anymore the same ammount of commitment with STEAM workshop risks. That's what I mean.

The ammount of people that travel on steam it's huge, really. Someone could take your contents and put it in some other game and you will never know who did that.

That could happnes on Armaholic too, true, but It's really harder and I really doubt that some Arma modder would ever steal your contents. Because we are like a "big family", we have rispect , and we are the usual suspects ;)

Nothing against the new players generation around the world, but most of them use steam, and they are a bounch of bastards that don't give a single fuck about anyone.

Thats something that didnt touched yet complitly the arma community.

I just don't want see the mod where I spended time and energy die.

If I'm wrong however, I'm happy.

+1 to this.

[Janxy 10]

Be happy then. You won't ever be forced to use the Workshop if you don't want to, Armaholic&co will still be needed. Just like Skyrim has both its Nexus and Workshop.

But if you do ( and you can both release on Steam and Armaholic&co, because the license you grant Valve is non exclusive ), you'll have a potential audience of 5 million+ who are only a click or two away from your mod.

[myshaak 0]

So much drama... If Arma 3 being Steam exclusive means the development will be quicker, cheaper and easier, I'm all for it. This will be my first Steam game (or more likely DayZ standalone) and I have no problem setting up an account just for BI games. I just don't get the hateful responses.. hey, at least being Steam exclusive is not "splittin teh community!" like other devil's creations... like DLC or expansions :bounce3:

[nuxil 2]

This will be my first Steam game (or more likely DayZ standalone) .... . I just don't get the hateful responses..

well then.. read some of the posts from people who had issues with steam, and more so.

[dunedain 48]

It's an issue of consumer rights and ownership, use and restrictions. If you are spending hard earned money then you should care what caveats and restrictions there are on your purchase and why there are more restrictions now than when there were.

Like what? Not being able to resell your games? Buying a used PC game you intend to play online has always been tricky as the previous owner could always burn the disk and copy the serial key for himself. That's something in 13 years of PC gaming I have never did... So much for more restrictions now than when there were. It's not like Steam asks you to play with your CD in the drive, to always be online or even restricts the number of installations.

I don't see the need to run Steam at least once online a major issue either. It's not like we are still in the early 00's when internet was still kind of a luxury for many of us.

Edited February 22, 2013 by dunedain

[blashyrk 1]

You guys are fighting over literally nothing of importance, while everybody is just ingoring the real problem and that is we haven't got a single REAL update on the game in quite a long time!

It's almost like a diversion, this news about Steam. Now everybody is fighting about Steam while we're still getting complete radio silence on the actual development of the game.

[Maxzy 12]

It's not like in the early 00's when internet was still kind of a luxury for many of us.

It is still kind of a luxury for many of us.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Guess "Steam only" was/is discussed much but somehow this exclusive deal between BIS and Steam was made.... imo BIS just did the math and got the idea that moving A3 closer to popular distribution channels will get them more money. The big mass of casual players just like to have a very comfy auto-game setup incl. all those hip social services. They don't want to think soooo much about consumer rights, ownership, privacy and retail/resell games - they just simple want "click-2-play" (plus some extra/special sales candy). Like other game developers BIS can't manage to stay on their own feet and be independent.

[Maxzy 12]

You guys are fighting over literally nothing of importance, while everybody is just ingoring the real problem and that is we haven't got a single REAL update on the game in quite a long time!

It's almost like a diversion, this news about Steam. Now everybody is fighting about Steam while we're still getting complete radio silence on the actual development of the game.

Evil devs tricked us again. Dammit. :)

[4 IN 1 0]

Dwarden, I appreciate a lot the work you did and you are doing for the community

But you can't say that the whole post it's invalid, just remove the "finding solutions to your bugs".

Modders worked for you for free (on their decisions yes, but because they love this game and this community), letting people enjoying more the game you provided. That's it.

I have spended 2 years of my life modding this game each damn day and now I see the doors closed for arma 3, after getting excited for it I just feel like an idiot.

Hardly someone will give anymore the same ammount of commitment with STEAM workshop risks. That's what I mean.

The ammount of people that travel on steam it's huge, really. Someone could take your contents and put it in some other game and you will never know who did that.

That could happnes on Armaholic too, true, but It's really harder and I really doubt that some Arma modder would ever steal your contents. Because we are like a "big family", we have rispect , and we are the usual suspects ;)

Nothing against the new players generation around the world, but most of them use steam, and they are a bounch of bastards that don't give a single fuck about anyone.

Thats something that didnt touched yet complitly the arma community.

I just don't want see the mod where I spended time and energy die.

If I'm wrong however, I'm happy.

Then again, no one ever said that you MUST use steam to release your mod, so unless someone actually said that, all is just hot air(for now)

[Hicks_09 10]

Evil devs tricked us again. Dammit. :)

So give them a spanking.

Like what? Not being able to resell your games? Buying a used PC game you intend to play online has always been tricky has the previous owner could always burn the disk and copy the serial key for himself. That's something in 13 years of PC gaming I have never did... So much for more restrictions now than when there were. It's not like Steam asks to play with your to have your CD in your drive, to always be online or even restricts the number of installations.

I don't see the need to run Steam at least once online a major issue either. It's not like we are still in the early 00's when internet was still kind of a luxury for many of us.

Resale, access, regional locking and pricing, access being dependent on internet access when a product can function without, fluid license agreements - requirement of which determines access and running to and of purchases, monopolies and competition, drm schemes on top of client drm. More hoops for the customer to have to pay to jump through. All the while the pirates are laughing at us shmucks.

There's a few to start you on. Why should I need to use a third party drm client at all?

[maddogx 13]

x can be disabled in the options

y can be disabled in the options

z can be disabled in the options

Now that's very nice allowing me that.

Just... Right now I don't have to disable ads, I don't have to switch to offline mode, I don't have to disable auto-updates and whatnot. Why should I be so stupid using Steam now and spend 30 mins with disabling a bunch of options each time I have to (re)install Steam? Yet another argument against Steam client.

W0lle, you're misinterpreting the intent of my post. I honestly could not care less whether or not you like Steam or intend to buy Arma3. I neither expect nor intend to sway you or anyone else away from your opinions because I really, honestly don't give a shit.

However, if someone says they dislike the Steam news/ad pop-ups and I happen to know these things can be deactivated, I feel compelled to share this information. If someone thinks Steam will kill the modding community, I might weigh in with my opinion on why I think this is complete bollocks. If someone makes claims that have already been refuted elsewhere, I will probably point it out and might even provide a link if I'm in a good mood.

Other that that, I'm not interested in letting a bunch of disappointed people drag me into an emotionally charged argument about a ship that has already sailed.