ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[maddogx 13]

I trust both companies

^^ This is what I boils down to for me, and I think I will leave this as my last post in this thread. :)

[Alex72 1]

Can Steam handle beta's and if a beta doesnt work as intended (crashes etc) can we revert or do we have to wait for a new patch?

Man i feel like a fish out of water. :D

[-Coulum- 35]

I hate steam and am very disappointed to see arma 3 be steam only. I will not waste time or space on why, but what I will say is that no-one should be saying that there is no reason to like steam or that there is no reason not to like steam. It's very much a matter of personal preference, similar to the use of standard vs. automatic cars. Yes automatic is easier, but some will always prefer manual because it gives them more control and if something goes wrong they know it is their fault, not some automated system's fault. And steam still has along way to go before it reaches the reliability of an automatic gearbox.

But what those against steam (including me) need to realize is that, according to the devblog, BIS had no choice and has to use steam. It is not because they don't care about their community or want to make a cash grab, its because they have to in order to meet their goals for the game. For those who will stop modding or even stop playing arma because of this I am deeply sorry that you have made the decision to leave the community and I honestly hope you reconsider, but know that BIS is not trying to disappoint you, but rather has been forced to.

We should all realize by now that no matter how much complaining we do or arguing about whether steam is good or not, it is still going to happen and there is nothing we can do to stop that.

So my suggestion is, instead of splitting up and bickering amongst ourselves, maybe we should all support BIS and see where this goes. Instead of focusing on the negatives of steam we should be focusing on the positives and what great things it can bring to the game.

Our community can make steam either a great or horrible thing for arma. Which one depends solely on what we as the community make of the situation. There is plenty of reason to be upset but know that complaining will only make things worse. Instead, lets accept and move on so we can support BIS in making arma 3 the best possible product it can be given the situation.

That's my spiel.

[jefferspang 2]

Because that is what they have been doing huh?

Steam\Valve only go so far, the rest is up to BIS. I trust both companies, they are good at what they are doing and probably both wanna improve their services to gather even more costumers.

Besides the whole "big companies" paranoia, another problem around here is that some don't play many games, just Arma and things alike, thus why this whole Steam thing dropped like a bomb. Oh well....

Well judging by Steam's poor customer service, I'd say yes. And please don't undermine our opinions by lowering it to paranoia* because history shows that big companies can often be tempted to exploit for personal gains.

*

Noun

1.A mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically worked...

2.Suspicion and mistrust of people or their actions without evidence or justification.

[-Coulum- 35]

I do agree that a lots of rage is a direct product from the pass few months of radio silence, and sometime it is just better to even release SOME bad news to fans to let them know what actual problem there is.

Yeah that is exactly what I mean. Small doses of bad news would be better than suddenly dropping a bomb of shit (for those who dislike steam). I think an "emergency" Q&A devblog to answer the biggest concerns could do well to help calm things down a bit and recover from the damage that has been done.

[[frl]myke 14]

Agreed. While I think that Gabe is a nice guy and Steam is nice company that actually cares about their customers (in general) I neither like this part of the Steam Workshop Contribution Agreement:

I'll repeat myself, but: I hope that this is considered as constructive criticism instead of anti-Steam spam.

You forgot point b.):

With respect to Valve Games, You retain the right to use Your original work in the Contributions as You wish, even in the context of another game. However, this Agreement does not grant You any rights to Valve materials, and You may not make any use of the Contribution that is inconsistent with the rights You have granted to Valve herein. For example, You may not license the Contribution to a third party on an exclusive basis. With respect to Third Party Games, the end user license or subscription terms for the Third Party Game may provide to You or third parties different ownership rights and responsibilities for Contributions.

[antoineflemming 14]

I'm not trying to drag you into anything. I appreciate that the Steam users share their experiences with those who haven't used Steam yet or stopped using it for whatever reason.

What I'm saying is that for me being forced to use Steam is way more inconvenient than it is now. Except using Steam as replacement for dying gamespy I see no benefit using Steam as I don't play online, I don't the achievements, Steam Workshop or social crap. I'm interested in creating content and if I must run Arma2 now for quickly checking a config change it takes me max. 30 secs. With Steam it takes surely much longer if I have to start the client first, log in and run the game. That's a fact.

Well, that's why I hope they separate the SP and the MP like COD does. That way, they can make the singleplayer exe not require Steam, and the multiplayer exe will require Steam (for the servers).

[Hicks_09 10]

Well, that's why I hope they separate the SP and the MP like COD does. That way, they can make the singleplayer exe not require Steam, and the multiplayer exe will require Steam (for the servers).

Pretty much what was done with Dark Messiah Might and Magic. A game that used Valve's source engine yet had single player steam free but required it for multiplayer.

[Smurf 12]

Can Steam handle beta's and if a beta doesnt work as intended (crashes etc) can we revert or do we have to wait for a new patch?

Man i feel like a fish out of water. :D

BIS is on control of these, they can rollback. I just don't know if we will need a whole new instalation for the beta (2 x +15Gb) or it will donwload just the beta folder and its executable, as we have now.

RO2 needed the whole thing again, but that is another engine and they were struggling with patches (almost the whole game had to be downloaded again). Same thing happens with A2, but the delta patching thing wasn't fully integrated in both cases afaik.

Well, that's why I hope they separate the SP and the MP like COD does. That way, they can make the singleplayer exe not require Steam, and the multiplayer exe will require Steam (for the servers).

Probably. But where LAN will fit?

Piracy would be fairly easier with LAN integrated in the SP exe....

[[frl]myke 14]

Can Steam handle beta's and if a beta doesnt work as intended (crashes etc) can we revert or do we have to wait for a new patch?

Man i feel like a fish out of water. :D

Dwarden said that beta's are optional and that anytime you may reverse to a older patch level, beta or not. So if a server doesn't use the latest patch, you can select the desired patch level and steam "downgrades" your game accordingly.

[-Coulum- 35]

I hate steam and am very disappointed to see arma 3 be steam only. I will not waste time or space on why, but what I will say is that no-one should be saying that there is no reason to like steam or that there is no reason not to like steam. It's very much a matter of personal preference, similar to the use of standard vs. automatic cars. Yes automatic is easier, but some will always prefer manual because it gives them more control and if something goes wrong they know it is their fault, not some automated system's fault. And steam still has along way to go before it reaches the reliability of an automatic gearbox.

But what those against steam (including me) need to realize is that, according to the devblog, BIS had no choice and has to use steam. It is not because they don't care about their community or want to make a cash grab, its because they have to in order to meet their goals for the game. For those who will stop modding or even stop playing arma because of this I am deeply sorry that you have made the decision to leave the community and I honestly hope you reconsider, but know that BIS is not trying to disappoint you, but rather has been forced to.

We should all realize by now that no matter how much complaining we do or arguing about whether steam is good or not, it is still going to happen and there is nothing we can do to stop that.

So my suggestion is, instead of splitting up and bickering amongst ourselves, maybe we should all support BIS and see where this goes. Instead of focusing on the negatives of steam we should be focusing on the positives and what great things it can bring to the game.

Our community can make steam either a great or horrible thing for arma. Which one depends solely on what we as the community make of the situation. There is plenty of reason to be upset but know that complaining will only make things worse. Instead, lets accept and move on so we can support BIS in making arma 3 the best possible product it can be given the situation.

That's my spiel.

[antoineflemming 14]

I hate steam and am very disappointed to see arma 3 be steam only. I will not waste time or space on why, but what I will say is that no-one should be saying that there is no reason to like steam or that there is no reason not to like steam. It's very much a matter of personal preference, similar to the use of standard vs. automatic cars. Yes automatic is easier, but some will always prefer manual because it gives them more control and if something goes wrong they know it is their fault, not some automated system's fault. And steam still has along way to go before it reaches the reliability of an automatic gearbox.

But what those against steam (including me) need to realize is that, according to the devblog, BIS had no choice and has to use steam. It is not because they don't care about their community or want to make a cash grab, its because they have to in order to meet their goals for the game. For those who will stop modding or even stop playing arma because of this I am deeply sorry that you have made the decision to leave the community and I honestly hope you reconsider, but know that BIS is not trying to disappoint you, but rather has been forced to.

We should all realize by now that no matter how much complaining we do or arguing about whether steam is good or not, it is still going to happen and there is nothing we can do to stop that.

So my suggestion is, instead of splitting up and bickering amongst ourselves, maybe we should all support BIS and see where this goes. Instead of focusing on the negatives of steam we should be focusing on the positives and what great things it can bring to the game.

Our community can make steam either a great or horrible thing for arma. Which one depends solely on what we as the community make of the situation. There is plenty of reason to be upset but know that complaining will only make things worse. Instead, lets accept and move on so we can support BIS in making arma 3 the best possible product it can be given the situation.

That's my spiel.

Well modders have nothing to fear, really. I mean, it's not like Armaholic's going to go away. Why? Because mods aren't forced to go through Steam. And if they do, modders retain the rights to those mods in accordance with BIS's EULA.

[rautapalli 10]

Oh man, the majority of the posts in this thread are around the same level as youtube comments. What the hell happened to the ARMA community?

[Alex72 1]

Myke;2300538']Dwarden said that beta's are optional and that anytime you may reverse to a older patch level' date=' beta or not. So if a server doesn't use the latest patch, you can select the desired patch level and steam "downgrades" your game accordingly.[/quote']

Thanks for that. Sounds good.

[4 IN 1 0]

Yeah that is exactly what I mean. Small doses of bad news would be better than suddenly dropping a bomb of shit (for those who dislike steam). I think an "emergency" Q&A devblog to answer the biggest concerns could do well to help calm things down a bit and recover from the damage that has been done.

Nah~I think the need one of THIS:p

[4 IN 1 0]

Well modders have nothing to fear, really. I mean, it's not like Armaholic's going to go away. Why? Because mods aren't forced to go through Steam. And if they do, modders retain the rights to those mods in accordance with BIS's EULA.

There is a problem right now where people simply filled with rage and do not pay enought attention or even bother to look into EULA to find what is the real concern are and whats not.

[Hellhound 10]

I hate steam and am very disappointed to see arma 3 be steam only. I will not waste time or space on why, but what I will say is that no-one should be saying that there is no reason to like steam or that there is no reason not to like steam. It's very much a matter of personal preference, similar to the use of standard vs. automatic cars. Yes automatic is easier, but some will always prefer manual because it gives them more control and if something goes wrong they know it is their fault, not some automated system's fault. And steam still has along way to go before it reaches the reliability of an automatic gearbox.

But what those against steam (including me) need to realize is that, according to the devblog, BIS had no choice and has to use steam. It is not because they don't care about their community or want to make a cash grab, its because they have to in order to meet their goals for the game. For those who will stop modding or even stop playing arma because of this I am deeply sorry that you have made the decision to leave the community and I honestly hope you reconsider, but know that BIS is not trying to disappoint you, but rather has been forced to.

That's my spiel.

No offense but you should look up gullible in the dictionary, you might learn something ;)

For me, i don't even play online, so it's just stupid practise to launch an external program to tell it to be able to play offline (but you still need to run the program, so it's not even offline 100%).

I wonder what the REAL reason is they went STEAM exclusive, because from what i've heard sofar it doesn't add up. Shurely piracy can't be it, since steam games get cracked the minute they are unlocked on steam if i'm correct. This way BIS will only lose money.

And what was the poll all about ? , i believe the vast majority was flat out against making this game steam only, so it makes absolutely no sense (in fact i feel stabbed in the back).

This is yet another game i won't be purchasing because of steam/origion/ubi EULA that i simple won't accept.

[boredgunner 1]

Oh man, the majority of the posts in this thread are around the same level as youtube comments. What the hell happened to the ARMA community?

My thoughts exactly. The amount of uninformed people regarding Steam and Steamworks is just shocking. It's just typical, illogical stubbornness. That's how most old people are :rolleyes:

"YOU CAN'T FORCE MY HAND" is the sadly the best argument I've seen, regarding ArmA 3 and its Steamworks usage. I prefer a more logical approach, and for this reason, I'm glad ArmA 3 will use Steamworks since it will only benefit the game.

Edited February 22, 2013 by boredgunner

[RavoC 10]

I will buy the boxed version, I will install it, play it and love it (if the game is available, off course:j: otherwise I would have to play in offline mode (alone:()).. and I hope you guys prove me wrong when I say steam, specially with my net steam wouldn't be an improvement for me, but then again I don't hate steam it has gone uphill for some time now.

Then again I think it's the same question of; would you like 100% beer or a bit of pee with that? or, we've been friends for so long and would you please share your wife with me for one night?

Not saying that arma is my wife or anything mine mind you.. but I still feel like steam is something added like a child which bears responsibility from the devs of valve, BI and the community. But I have full confidence BI will do the best it can, most of this community has it's own idea and sometimes you just have to take the middle road but I'm sure arma gamers are strong minded enough to get it exactly right.

Then again I once said it would be awesome to have easier mod installation for new players.. but since DayZ came out, I don't dislike it just that some gamers aren't as dedicated to just gaming maturely as some arma gamers are. But I'm glad that people will have an easier time getting into arma and perhaps get more maturely and not rage quit over the installation of mods etc and start team killing everbody.

:o

Edit:

Ohh one question btw, can you still run a client side "server" yourself play missions with friends that can instantly join? I doubt we wouldn't be able to just asking for my good feeling :D:D

Edited February 22, 2013 by RavoC

[babylonjoke 22]

There is a problem right now where people simply filled with rage and do not pay enought attention or even bother to look into EULA to find what is the real concern are and whats not.

Hello mr 4 in 1, can you explain then instead of speak out of turn?

Edited February 22, 2013 by Babylonjoke
strong language, maybe

[Placebo 29]

But isn´t the demand for a Dev Q&A something that belongs in this thread?

Not if all the questions are Steamworks related, and the word "demand" isn't one that's likely to get a response ;)

[W0lle 1050]

I will buy the boxed version, I will install it, play it and love it (if the game is available, off course:j: otherwise I would have to play in offline mode (alone:()).. and I hope you guys prove me wrong when I say steam, specially with my net steam wouldn't be an improvement for me, but then again I don't hate steam it has gone uphill for some time now.

The boxed version will only save you from downloading the game from Steam.

For activating and launching Arma3 you still must have the Steam client running.

[AlexVestin 24]

Nah~I think the need one of THIS:p

I'm sure BIS paid attention to local the last 24 hours, so there must be atleast some inside-talk about a Q&A at their POS :) Steamworks isn't the only subject being discussed.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Is it possible Bohemia to include steam client in the disc so people don't need to download Steam from the internet?

[froggyluv 2136]

Yeah that is exactly what I mean. Small doses of bad news would be better than suddenly dropping a bomb of shit (for those who dislike steam). I think an "emergency" Q&A devblog to answer the biggest concerns could do well to help calm things down a bit and recover from the damage that has been done.

Was and am really surprised that the Steam announcement was released without a little more uplifting blog/announcement to better buffer the starving masses on the points they don't like. Kind of like "Heres (to some) the bad news but check out this great news ________"