Ragdolls = In .... Realistic wounds ???

[zooloo75 834]

If there was dismemberment, it would make battles much more graphic and realistic (if kept to a certain degree) and would make a shootout last either longer or shorter, because you want to use more tactics and take more cover so you don't end up getting your brains blown away or your arm blown off from some high caliber weapon.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Yeah go tell that to a room full of recovering amputees and tell us how that goes...

Still just a game, and it wont come with wheel chairs.

Which I think is the point. It will be a hot day in heaven the day we see an amputee simulator. And how many people are realy going to be effected by that level of gore in a game ,compared to those that realy do wake up and wonder of they going to face a red mist sort of day.

[Tonmeister 14]

as it stands i believe Bis, by not using "gore" and "dismemberment" as a quirky marketing strategy to keep you desperate lot interested in a game here, have given milsim a degree of sophistication, obviously something you have no capacity to appreciate.

and for the comment

"If there was dismemberment, it ... would make a shootout last either longer or shorter"

what a load of fucking bollocks. only pussies hide.

[dmarkwick 261]

as it stands i believe Bis, by not using "gore" and "dismemberment" as a quirky marketing strategy to keep you desperate lot interested in a game here, have given milsim a degree of sophistication, obviously something you have no capacity to appreciate.

and for the comment

"If there was dismemberment, it ... would make a shootout last either longer or shorter"

what a load of fucking bollocks. only pussies hide.

Haha :D a win post :D

I don't care for gore, but I like a little blood splatter so I can work out what happened. And of course a blood trail often comes in handy. But I believe these blood effects are a different category to gore and dismemberment.

[krazikilla 5]

A game which made Ragdoll and disemberement pretty right was Red Orchestra 1. Version 2 looks even better.

I think it looks good, its used but not overdone:

[Haystack15 10]

That's the question of one's ignorance. You can set the mass value to anything you like, the reason they bounce like balloons is because of the zero-attention span clowns expecting some feedback, when they fire at something, while in real life humans are heavy and don't react much to a 5.56 - you just drop dead, or drop dead over some railing of a guard tower, for that matter -- that is what we need in ArmA 3. ;)

My last post wasn't a question. :p

I've seen games where they still look odd with the value tweaked. :mad: Not to mention they will completely fall on top of their body sometimes. Like my last post was saying. Ragdoll Physics look weird to me. And with Dismemberment, Well to be honest Dismemberment in ARMA doesn't seem like the ARMA game I know in love.

But hey I never shot a guy with a gun or blown someone's leg off and looked at how he dies. Nor have I never seen a person just die and collapse right in front of me. Until i do see that happen I'll try to compare it to RDP ;)

Edited May 20, 2011 by Haystack15

[Archosaurusrev 12]

I hope by dismemberment they mean "Oh darn, got shot by an AK and my palm got ripped off, I say"

Not "OMG OMG OMG GOT HIT BY A 556 AND MY HAND FLEW OFF ARRGRGRGRHRGGHHJHJKKBBLL!"

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

My last post wasn't a question. :p

I've seen games where they still look odd with the value tweaked. :mad: Not to mention they will completely fall on top of their body sometimes. Like my last post was saying. Ragdoll Physics look weird to me. And with Dismemberment, Well to be honest Dismemberment in ARMA doesn't seem like the ARMA game I know in love.

But hey I never shot a guy with a gun or blown someone's leg off and looked at how he dies. Nor have I never seen a person just die and collapse right in front of me. Until i do see that happen I'll try to compare it to RDP ;)

0WaQY7GMAgI

Game released in 2002. Yes, those are death animations, hit detection is ragdoll, bodies can be carried as well.

Archosaurusrev,

Iroquois Pliskin was the unofficial entry of Seal Team 6 into the oil platform complex in MGS 2. ;)

Edited May 20, 2011 by Iroquois Pliskin

[Archosaurusrev 12]

0WaQY7GMAgI

Game released in 2002. Yes, those are death animations, hit detection is ragdoll, bodies can be carried as well.

Iroquois Pliskin, wasn't he Snake in MGS2?

Offtopic....

Ontopic, as long as the ragdolls aren't over the top it's ok.

[-GR-Operative 10]

VBS 2 now includes full gore (check some pictures and see for yourself ;))

[Haystack15 10]

Game released in 2002. Yes, those are death animations, hit detection is ragdoll, bodies can be carried as well.

Archosaurusrev,

Iroquois Pliskin was the unofficial entry of Seal Team 6 into the oil platform complex in MSG 2. ;)

Dude you not reading my post correctly

My last post wasn't a question. :p

I've seen games where they still look odd to mewith the value tweaked. :mad: Not to mention they will completely fall on top of their body sometimes. Like my last post was saying. Ragdoll Physics look weird to me.

Now do you get it?

[dysta 10]

Think about hostile using a dead people as a shield when in hostage situation. If it happens in ARMA3, mostly player will just shoot at the body, trying to penetrate the dead victim and the hostile. That's extremely inhuman.

[nodunit 397]

Well nobody ever said war was nice.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Dude you not reading my post correctly

Now do you get it?

You don't get it unconsciously, and I didn't get your post intentionally. Which part of the flexibility of the physics engine do you not understand?

[max power 21]

Yeah go tell that to a room full of recovering amputees and tell us how that goes...

Any amputees survive in ArmA, Sky999? Or are you suggesting that they add a module where you live out your live with permanent disability?

You've just illustrated my point perfectly. Adding amputations and floppy bodies in ArmA 3 does not even approach the reality of the 'real cost of war'.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Max Power

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Any amputees survive in ArmA, Sky999? Or are you suggesting that they add a module where you live out your live with permanent disability?

You've just illustrated my point perfectly. Adding amputations and floppy bodies in ArmA 3 does not even approach the reality of the 'real cost of war'.

ooUubWoAOLU

[krazikilla 5]

Heres another clip of another game with gore and ragdoll.

Even i think here its too much of ragdoll (should be toned down like 50%) and too often the gore kicks in - I think its well made.

[Cyteless 10]

If we're talking gore, I think bloodiness to a level like Red Orchestra would be good. Grenades pepper the target, large calibre weapons dismember, and tank rounds and artillery leave very little left.

I certainly don't want Hollywood-gore, it's distracting and all together removes the enjoyment of playing a game.

[nodunit 397]

Heres another clip of another game with gore and ragdoll.

Even i think here its too much of ragdoll (should be toned down like 50%) and too often the gore kicks in - I think its well made.

Yeah that is a bit over the top, I've seen photo's of a guy shot in the head with a 50 cal sniper rifle and while it did left the uppert part of his head..nonexistant, it didn't blast a big a gap as at 0:20

[dysta 10]

You've just illustrated my point perfectly. Adding amputations and floppy bodies in ArmA 3 does not even approach the reality of the 'real cost of war'.

Have to list up the "cost of the operation" in every end of the game, and let player to read all of them at the end? Typically costly.

Or just some "Before/After" snapshots when finish the game could do fine.

[Laqueesha 474]

Dismemberment at the very least is a must. Real warfare is very graphic, and as ArmA prides itself on being a simulator, it would be most logical to include dismemberment. With the new physics engine, it shouldn't be too hard to implement, whereas previous incarnations of the RV engine didn't have much of a physics simulation system, if at all. ;)

[nodunit 397]

either way it needs to be optional so it could still sell to both crowds, making it default could scare away potential customers who aren't into that sort of thing.

[max power 21]

Have to list up the "cost of the operation" in every end of the game, and let player to read all of them at the end? Typically costly.

Or just some "Before/After" snapshots when finish the game could do fine.

No. I was saying that you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking that special effects in a video game will translate into a representation of the real cost of war.

rexehuk was comparing gore to 'the real cost of war' in order to make the argument that a sim without it doesn't simulate and therefore lacks in credibility. The analogy is false and that argument is invalid. Gore just like any other special effect should be applied based on what it adds. Having limbs fly off in an explosion I don't think adds a component where the special effects are somehow now portraying the horrible consequences of war.

[Skagget 11]

First; a picture of a concept art screenshot aint enough to say that anything in that pic is "confirmed". Yes the guy on the ground looks alot like he is a ragdoll; which was my first though too.. that they would use it in the game. But come on; that aint enough for something to be confirmed. Its over 1 year of possible release; so start confirming functions based on the concept art = really ? :)

Regarding the blood, the gore, the dismemberment etc.. is that what makes ARMA the game it is today with its previous releases ? and/or is it what you really think the game is lacking primary today ?

Dont think that the general ARMA-fan sleeps restless as the ARMAseries dont have a exploding body system as you shot someone with a 50cal in the head.. I know I have never had the idea of "Im so sad that the limbs arent flying from my grenadeexplosion, why oh why BIS didnt you make the game so I would see more gore" :)

But I do think a better hitbox, a better bodysystem for death and maybe a better bloodsystem that can be turned on or off; thats something to look into. Ive always disliked the ragdoll-system as the bodies as mentioned have looked like crap.. there are legs that twist around its own rotation, arms folding around in circles etc.. As someone mentioned too; its a codething to make ragdolls alot more heavy, thats maybe a option, I dont know.. but alot of games using a ragdoll system ends up with crap.

I hope that ARMA3 has some new bodysystem or deathsystem. Aswell as a better "medic" function.. There are alot of need for a system to patch you up. ACE have one, Norrn have one R3F is another, so the need is there for a good solution regarding bandages and draging etc.

To the topic in hand; I want a better system :)

And whatever they do; dont rush it; just work on it and make it BIS-own instead of just droping ragdoll system in and thats it.

[tsb247 0]

I'm not sure how I feel about ragdolls and gore. IMO, gore would be a better way to deal with large explosions and maybe ragdolls to a smaller extent. However, I don't want to see either go too far. It would ruin it for me. I have always seen ragdolls as a physics gimmick more than anything.

EDIT: I also see no conclusive proof of ragdolls. Just a screenshot of a guy that looks like he has been shot. That is all. I won't believe it until I hear dev confirmation or see a video.

Edited May 20, 2011 by tsb247
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