Suggestions that would make Arma II / AO more popular

[CarlGustaffa 4]

There's nothing wrong with enjoying the 10+ minute drive across the map I'm just pointing out there's lots of other ways to play ArmA without doing that if it's not something you want to do.

The problem is that most often that 10 minute drive is uneventful. Takistan is a goldmine for infantry ambush opportunities, but I haven't seen then utilized much in the missions I play. Might be a challenge to script though.

[johncage 30]

the very things that will make this game popular will turn it into another mindless run and gunner like bf2, cod, moh.

[HyperU2 11]

I frequently jump onto servers and see stuff like this. Maybe ARMA really is too difficult to ever become popular. (names deleted to protect the negligent)

[cjph 0]

I got my nephew (early twenties, veteran WoW, BF and CS player/modder) into Arma2 and while he enjoyed the SP experience he had a lot of trouble getting into MP, even our server. Getting the right game version, addons and mods can be too much hassle for the younger players used to the switch on and go console world, let alone then finding they are easy pickings for the AI. Can't see this changing soon.

Maybe the new, smaller island in the BAF DLC is a move towards smaller CQB environments and missions which could lure traditional FPS players into Arma gradually, with familiar sized maps and gameplay on public servers. Hopefully the more mature players (and those like my nephew who is tired of the sniping, run and gun FPS) will sitck with it and become team players, joining us more experienced players on locked or heavily modded servers.

Just my little dream world.

[carlostex 38]

I think if we had true physics this game would have its number 1 problem solved. But that would require a new engine from the start.

Maybe if 10 years from now you start working on Arma 3: please BIS build your engine on the top of a good physics base.

[Inkompetent 0]

I think if we had true physics this game would have its number 1 problem solved. But that would require a new engine from the start.

Nah, it would just require a proper physics engine on top of the existing engines in the game. Easier said than done to incorporate one still though ^^

[polar bear 10]

The #1 playability problem is the unwieldy, jerky, awkward movement through doorways and other enclosed spaces. I'm not sure entirely what the cause of this is, a combination of simulating arms/legs with a lack of physics and maybe insufficient collision detection? I don't know, but whatever the cause is, if it could be fixed, that would be HUGE.

I know it is at least partly the simulation. In CS:S movement in enclosed spaces is very smooth but on the other hand your gun will clip through a door which is obviously not realistic either.

Still there's got to be some way to make the experience smoother without sacrificing realism--it isn't realistic, after all, to be totally disoriented by trying to duck into a doorway!

[tyler4171 10]

Perhaps adopt the way Americas Army 3 did it, probably end requiring a lot of already used CPU resources but it could work: Approach a wall/door/window with glass and your guy lowers his weapon.

[vilas 477]

after seeing some CoD kids that come for a month or two weeks (like in other games), but make big bargain, i am afraid of making Arma more popular

from one hand BIS need money for development, from other hand CoD kids make mess and problems here by wishes how to make Arma not OFP-son

new comers also behave in such way that they demotivate old crew , old players/addonmakers/missionmakers/moders

they come from shity games and... want DLC and doubling addons already and more realistic released instead of motivating BIS to care about engine

Edited August 26, 2010 by vilas

[HyperU2 11]

I reinstalled Raven Shield tonight. Reminds me that best does not equal popular.

[vilas 477]

i will reinstall OFP again, i already have RTCW , maybe Max Payne1 again :D

yes, popular not means better, specially popular music, popular food...

"elite" was always not popular , and i prefer pay few times more for BIS games, but be free of CoD/CS kids philosophy (thats why i am going to buy DLC, not for UK units, but too support BIS)

[Gmork 10]

Polar bear is right in many things. The Arma series are very difficult games to keep up to date. Not because of the game itself is difficult, but because of the amount of addons you require to add to be able to play with other people, and although there have been developments, you need to be constantly downloading utilities that organize the addons, or need to be constantly searching in forums to be able to learn the basics to be able to keep the game running and make some missions.

Now I have to say I kept buying the Arma series in the past because this it the type of game i would like to learn to play and concentrate on. This will only happen when BI or whoever develop tools that solve the constant problems for all the clients who do not have the advanced IT skills you need to keep the game updated. The only develoment I would like to see is a user friendly addon updater and more manuals and easy access to information for people who want to create missions. I have many friends in the same situation. They stopped playing Arma2 because of the extreme complexity of the tools required to keep the game updated. Therefore there must be hundreds or thousands of players in the same situation who would be faithful players if the game became mor euser friendly in general. They just released OA a couple of month ago and before Arma 2 and before that Arma 1 ...etc and they have developed the British expansion. If BI want to make more money selling games, i think it is worth having all these suggestions into consideration.

What about doing a pool about this? how many people who love ArmA, series would play more often or would recover the passion to play if the game was automatically updated without requiring a Masters in IT and tons of frustration?

How many people would play more often if there was more detailed and easy to find information about developing missions? (and please do not answer saying there are tutorials, forums, and some manuals..I have used hundreds of hours getting bits and pieces from different forums to make my basic missions).

Looking forward to the moment Arma2 becomes easier to be maintained. I bought all their games from operation flaspoint to ArmA2, but have not bought OA and Britsh expansion as I do not want to waste money until something is done about these issues.

Now before the BI inconditionals try to bite my neck i want to say I like what BI has created, and I think their games are the best in the market, they just need a little bit of polishing so not only "the chosen ones" can thoroughly enjoy the products they have they purchased. BI games have lots of potential and there are many thousands out there who want to start believing in them :)

thanks

Gmork

Edited August 30, 2010 by Gmork

[DaSquade 0]

5. Implement some sort of multi-player achievement tracking system and combine it with some sort of public player profile. Anything from "kill 10 enemies" to "successfully transport troops". Motivate people to go online!

Running a bit behind (post date)...

Anyway, after a long time i actually try my OA and BAF copy this weekend in MP. It took me a while before i found a 'nice' server (damn, no offence but domination somehow isn't my cup of tea).

Anyway, again i had to conclude the power of OFP/ArmA is not your rank/killpoints. We were with like +15 players and nearly all played as a team. No one was caring about who would get the first shot a objective X or who would get the most kills....nice relaxed coms and very nice teamplay. We even took the time to drag the wounded to safety under protection of other players. We had dedicated pilots that stayed in their role...and everybody agreed this was how this game should be played.

Just saying as good teamplay is priceless imho! I hope the BIS staff is aware of this and doesn't bring it to the level of other known games...

[Rex Ursus 10]

This is a very good post. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

I agree with most of the ideas. I also agree with much of what Xeno and Polar Bear have to add as well.

I would like to stress this one point. Arma as a whole is very undocumented. For a Sim of this complexity the manual could be at least three hundred pages if it was to do this Sim any justice at all. The reason why I read this post in the first place is because I was trying to find out things in the forums that any decent manual would have included in its hundreds of pages (that one can read at work). As an example I would like to hold forth Mr. Murry's excellent work on his comprehensive editing manual.

[Flash Thunder 10]

Lets make it better for the people who already play it and have invested time into arma.

Fix alot of AI bugs, add more AI features

Fix very old bugs that are still in Arma 2 and OA from past builds of RV

further enhancements to RVs collision detection, physics, lighting, animation systems.

Editor updates, like Mission breifings in editor, Weapon loadouts for ease of use.

-Achievements are the biggest waste of time

-This game will never be mainstream NEVER.

[Rokit 10]

The #1 playability problem is the unwieldy, jerky, awkward movement through doorways and other enclosed spaces.

Shoot, I think the movement is unwieldy, jerky, and awkward in general. That's my main gripe about the game (and I just bought it). Like when you crouch, bring your gun up, and walk forward, your character's arms twitch back n forth. Now, I know they did this on purpose because no one can hold their gun perfectly steady while crouching and moving, but I think they can do a lot better than that.

When you hold a gun yourself and walk forward trying to hold it steady, the gun may move but it's not a distraction. It's certainly not a twitch fest as in Arma's case. I feel less like the player and more like some documentary film maker following the player. It's just a distraction. It may truly be the case that's how guns move when you carry them, but it doesn't feel like that when you carry them. You feel like you're holding the gun steady and it's not a distraction. In Arma's case it's a distraction.

I think if they lessened the movement, made it less twitchy and more smooth, the game would be a lot more enjoyable for me. Frankly I love Arma's realism which is the whole reason I bought it. I was playing CoD, but just got sick and tired of the BS. In black ops it takes not one, but 2 shots to the head to kill a person with a silenced sniper rifle from 5 feet away. 2 shots to the foot will give you the same result. Ridiculous. I think one thing CoD did get right though, was movement. It's smooth and doesn't hinder the experience.

Hope BI does something about it. My 2 cents.

[nettrucker 142]

How many people would play more often if there was more detailed and easy to find information about developing missions? (and please do not answer saying there are tutorials, forums, and some manuals..I have used hundreds of hours getting bits and pieces from different forums to make my basic missions).

I gonna say exactly that. You'll find tons of information today just with a little effort. But a little effort is already too much asked.

Well I believe that people are getting more and more lazy doing searches to find what they need. In the very beginning of the OFP days there was no documentation at all. Fellow community members were writing tutorials especially concerning mission editing configs and so on and sharing their knowledge on different dedicated sites. Today . . . people want everything on a silver plate without effort from their side. I'm glad that these tutorials exist and even I have to go through the trouble to search for them in different places . . . I don't mind. People are not reading even all the stickies posted here were you can find 90% of all info on the ArmAverse. It's too much hassle and effort, it's better open new threads with things which have been asked and answered a billion times.

Just my 2 cents ... if gathering info on a game and learn it to play is too much of a pain, than they should stick to other games which doesn't require any effort at all. :)

kind regards

[Macadam Cow 1]

people want everything on a silver plate without effort from their side

And I'd say this is becoming a society problem. We're getting used to have what we want (usually nothing life depending) when we want (NOW).

Fast speed Internet, cellphone,...we're living in the immediate (not sure if it's the proper word)

Newcomers in the ArmA world (usually teenager) directly go on internet if they encounter a problem. They want the specific answer to their specific problem in a really short period of time. It became almost natural. they're wondering about something, hop internet, they got their answer and 4 days later it's all forgotten. They don't try to use what they already know to bypass that problem. In a way we can't blame them because, indeed, the answer in lying somewhere on the internet.

Just like you said, back in the Ofp times, there weren't as much information about the addon/mission editing. People were trying, failling, trying again,...It takes much more time but what you learn using this method, you'll never going to forget it. The best way to learn is to learn by yourself, using other people's knowledge as an help, not an assistance.

I'm not saying I'm different but at least I've known another way of thinking and...Oh well I think I've made my point here :D

I reinstalled Raven Shield tonight. Reminds me that best does not equal popular.

I'd say it's even the opposite. Said to say but usually the "masses" like simple things. The more complicated it gets the further the masses go away.

Just like music, movies, politics,food,...just about everything in this world

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong

Edited November 26, 2010 by Macadam Cow

[nettrucker 142]

And I'd say this is becoming a society problem. We're getting used to have what we want (usually nothing life depending) when we want (NOW).

Fast speed Internet, cellphone,...we're living in the immediate (not sure if it's the proper word)

Newcomers in the ArmA world (usually teenager) directly go on internet if they encounter a problem. They want the specific answer to their specific problem in a really short period of time. It became almost natural. they're wondering about something, hop internet, they got their answer and 4 days later it's all forgotten. They don't try to use what we already know to bypass that problem. In a way we can't blame because, indeed, the answer in lying somewhere on the internet.

Just like you said, back in the Ofp times, there weren't as much information about the addon/mission editing. People were trying, failling, trying again,...It takes much more time but what you learn using this method, you'll never going to forget it. The best way to learn is to learn by yourself, using other people's knowledge as an help, not an assistance.

I'd say it's even the opposite. Said to say but usually the "masses" like simple things. The more complicated it gets the further the masses go away.

Just like music, movies, politics,food,...just about everything in this world

For me it's more an individual attitude problem rather than a society problem. People are not used or willing anymore to achieve something on their own. :mad:

You can find on the major dedicated ArmA sites nearly any information you need, but that's just too much for people. If they would read the stickies and all the links which are referring to the info on ArmA here on BI forum they can gain pretty much any knowledge which has been gathered in the last ten years since OFP came out.

I will never understand why people are unable to search for things on their own. It must be an overwhelming obstacle to use the search button.

kind regards

[Eclipse4349 0]

I say the single biggest problem that holds Arma 2 back, now that it is in a state that is worthy of releasing to the masses after the recent patches, is the learning curve, coupled with greatly lacking training and documentation in-game. For those that recognize Arma's potential and don't mind spending hours figuring things out, it works. For those who don't have the time or the desire to put the effort into it, it is a waste of their money. The community is AWESOME, the game is AWESOME, but only if you have the will to use the community to learn how it works. And then there are the extremely useful features like setting a waypoint for yourself on your map by holding shift and left clicking. Extremely useful, but complete luck that I stumbled onto it.

A huge effort should be made to document all features and all aspects of play, and work them into boot camp style missions. Or at least somehow document and explain things somewhere in the game.

Arma is an incredible experience, but only if you take the time to learn it. Most people, unfortunately, are unwilling or unable to do so. That is a fact of life. I coach everyone I bring in to the fold, but I can only do so much! It is unfortunate that so many people were confused or frustrated into giving up on it. They are missing the magic of the best military sandbox ever created.

[HyperU2 11]

^^^ Yep. I've been playing since OpF and I feel like I still only know a fraction.

[xxbbcc 6]

1. Smooth the player movement, especially collision detection, around doors and walls and such

ShacKTac's collision addon helps with this. Not the ultimate solution but it's pretty good.

All key binding screens in the UI ought to come with a paragraph on screen explaining what the associated feature does, you should not have to search a forum to find out!

The game really needs to come with a PDF manual that explains it all again

This would be useful.

In "cadet" mode the game ought to pop up constant hints explaining features and suggesting things to try

Make links to those youtube training tutorials available directly from within

4. I've already mentioned that the game should automatically install addons required to join a server and completely manage that aspect of the experience

Only if these can be turned off in options.

5. Implement some sort of multi-player achievement tracking system and combine it with some sort of public player profile. Anything from "kill 10 enemies" to "successfully transport troops". Motivate people to go online!

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

6. Create and promote some faster paced multiplayer modes, e.g., with respawn near squad

Create a mission using the editor that does that. BIS has enough things to fix.

I realize some of these suggestions will get flak from people who say that n00bs ruin the game and they can't stand people who ever played COD and if you want to play ArmA you should be willing to troll forums for tidbits of information on how to play the game because that means you are a "thinking" person.

I'm not for forcing people to have to hunt for information so I agree with your points on the manual, etc. However, people who play CoD or MoH are not into military simulation - they're into movies with a camera they control. Arma simulates war as much as possible while it can still be called a game.

Sure, there are problems in the game in various spots (some pretty frustrating) but in general, I think the learning curve is steep for 2 main reasons:

• Not well documented and the training missions are not very good.
  
• It's unforgiving, making the first successes hard to come by. Other games reward the player a lot sooner. People need a fair amount of perseverance to learn how to play "right" and the first few days are definitely not enjoyable. When I first played Flashpoint, I was utterly frustrated for days with how quickly I kept dying.
  I personally think that in this game, the only "reward" should be that you completed your task and managed to stay alive with as few saves/reloads as possible.
  

Edited December 29, 2010 by xxbbcc

[cotabucky 10]

I love the game and have since OFP on the xbox and pc.The only thing that realy comes to mind is anything that can help free up the ability to make the mission you want to make in the editor without having to dedicate your entire life to learning how to do what you want to do.

That being said,a lot of my enjoyment is learning the Editor and scripting :) . Its just I have a Family and sometimes its hard to focus on learning this beast of an editor.I still have fun though and I like alot of the ideas already mentioned for improvements ;) .Still the Best game/design ever IMO and felt that way since OFP.Yes keep the improvements coming but Be carefull to never change whats great.So far I couldn't be Happier how BIS has improved this game over the years.It just amazes me how awesome ARMA2/OA is!

[Eclipse4349 0]

Definitely the best game on the market as far as a more realistic war sim, **IF** you have the time and patience to learn it on your own. A much more robust boot camp/tutorial covering all aspects of the game and it's commands and features, in detail, coupled with extensive documentation, needs to be a strong focus if a large player base is a goal. Most people give up on it well before they get to the point of realizing how incredible and rewarding it is. Unfortunately, Arma needed this from day one, and never got it.

[metalcraze 290]

Except people who don't have the patience to learn to play this game on their own shouldn't be playing it in the first place. No tutorial will teach them not to run around like retards playing Rambo. Thankfully the series have quite a few safeguards against these people.

Edited December 29, 2010 by metalcraze