Suggestions that would make Arma II / AO more popular

[[frl]myke 14]

For the point of "clunky & unintuitive controls", look at this:

(pic is over 100kb, therefor a link instead of preview)

http://www.armaholic.com/datas/users/372-dscn4706.jpg

This boy is 3 yrs old. And this pic is not faked. Although i don't let him encounter enemy units, he can manage a own AI team, order them to positions either in 3D view or on the map, he can order them to board and/leave vehicles aswell order them to return to formation.

All this he does very straighforward, not just wildly click here and there and making "lucky shots" when ordering.

Also saw him entering a tank as gunner and ordering a AI teammate to take driver seat, driving around on Chernarus.

So any point about "ArmA 2 being unintuitive" is for me pure nonsense. If a 3 year old can, so can you.

[Pulverizer 1]

Okay, okay. Whatever! Arma2 has very intuitive and smooth controls. I agree. Please don't ever try to improve them, BIS. It's just a very common complaint among the new players but whatever, apparently we don't even want any new players to get into the game to "pollute" it.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Pulverizer

[Defunkt 431]

Controls are more than adequate for anybody prepared to spend a modicum of time mastering them and if they're not up to that then I doubt this game will prove to be a good fit for them. Dumb down the controls and they'll moan about the very next thing they find that requires any effort. The thing about half these great ideas is that they will all entail a commitment of resource on BI's part and there are many other things I would prefer they worked on over trying to make the game appeal to the terminally lazy. The balance of the ideas we can most certainly do for ourselves and I'd suggest to the OP that they just get on with doing so like most of the other regular contributors here.

[[frl]myke 14]

It's not "we don't want new players". For me, the steep learning curve is a way to keep those people out that are more into run'n'gun-rambo-killstatmatters out.

This way, those mentoined people will take a look at it and either they like that kind of gameplay which demands a certain effort to get used to it or they wouldn't be happy anyway.

There are enough games out there for those who want quick access and killstats "mine-is-bigger-than-yours" gameplay. No need to turn ArmA 2 into such game.

[Inkompetent 0]

Very well formulated Defunkt and Myke.

We all want improvements to ArmA. The game still suffer from some problems since OFP: Cold War Rising that *could* be improved upon, and there are things to left and right that could become smoother.

But as they say if BIS start to cater to all kinds of audiences they won't really please anyone, and ArmA is one of its kind. There are 13 games on a dozen for the other style of play.

As for jumping (or well, vaulting) - yes. It could be made smoother with control assignment, but at the same time the current implementation prevents accidental use of something that's bound to get you killed if touched at the wrong moment, and that can be used anywhere without the (part of an) object being spefically tagged as climbable. At least we got vaulting in ArmA2! It didn't even exist before!

[Pulverizer 1]

I totally get what you're saying (about noob filtering and such) but only a very few people are playing Arma2 and that is a problem. Not a problem to people playing with their very own little niche, but a problem to BIS' sales numbers and the new players, and players who enjoyed some now-dead game modes.

There's plenty of room for all kinds of players and game types in Arma. The run-and-gun folk won't join your hardcore no-respawn long play coops to ruin them or whatever it is you play, and you don't have to join their games. There's no limit to how many diffrent servers the browser can hold.

OFP always had the hexenkessel CTF guys and that didn't really bother me even though I thought it was a horrible waste of the game's capabilities. But now that the kind of gameplay is dead, among many other game modes, I feel kind of sorry for the guys who liked to play those.

[[frl]myke 14]

Well then, don't you think that BIS wasn't aware of the predicted sales when they decided to design ArmA 2 the way it is now? Don't you think they're well aware that they could have higher sales if they designed it "more arcadish" (you might not like this word but at the very end it would be exactly this: moving towards arcade)?

Besides that, there is a mission editor, almost everything can be scripted and if you keep AI away from players team, you can even go through with WASD + LMB.

Go ahead, design those missiontypes you like to see. It's not that PvP can't be realised in ArmA 2.

[Pulverizer 1]

Not this again. No one said they think BIS should make the game more arcadish, or to take away features of the controls, but to make them more intuitive and smooth. A person can maneuver and position himself effortlesly and fast even in very complex geometry in real life compared to how slow and involved it is in Arma, to a new player. Or set the fire selector without having to "cycle" through his hand grenades and under-slung grenade launcher etc.

Also, you are completely fucking wrong about BIS not pandering to the less hardcore players. Put on the easiest difficulty settings and Arma2 is totally arcade, more so than OFP DR. You become a semi-indestructable death machine that can sense all movement within 5 mile radius with his bionic IFF eyes, take multiple small arms rounds straight in the face, be brought back from the dead multiple times to full health in a matter of seconds, look over walls and around corners with an invisible floating camera, communicate telepathically, aim with computer assist etc.

---------- Post added at 01:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------

About designing mission types... I don't follow your logic. The missions have already been done and hosted on servers. That brings us right back to the OP as to why they aren't being played: Too few players, haow fix?

[b00tsy 28]

I'd be curious to know. There's an argument for BIS to run a server with the most popular gameplay mode if for some reason the community is failing to do that, or perhaps for the community to identify the gap and fix it.

I actually would like to see some official BIS servers that is not limited with all kinds of restrictions and long lists of rules for non clan members like most other servers. This would make MP in general much more accessable for the large croud.

MP mode is great, but you are basically forced to join at least one clan and forced to use and install team speak or you will have to play on servers where you can not do all the stuff because of the restrictions they placed for non clan members.

lately I am finding myself playing Domination in SP mode just so that I can do all the stuff I can't do on mp servers, because of all the restrictions.

Edited August 11, 2010 by B00tsy

[AntalopeAUT 10]

*Quoteon*

lately I am finding myself playing Domination in SP mode just so that I can do all the stuff I can't do on mp servers, because of all the restrictions.*Quoteoff

Ahhhh, so you are one of those guys that runs to the next Helicopter right after spawning and crashes it inside Base ? ^^

Ohhhh and btw. this is a game where you N E E D to communicate with your teammates...hell, imagine an army consisting of mute soldiers ? How do they get anything done ?

Not by means of verbal comms...thats for shizzle ma nixxxx....

Communication (fast, fluent and precise) will make you survive three to ten times longer than duking it out all alone or encumbering yourself with writing like a maniac in the chat just to get some infos in and out, so better think some ten to twenty times more about your despising of TS/Ventrilo/Whatever.

!And dont forget about all the massively epic team destruction that comes from playing for some time with the same players and hearing them talk to YOU...and before you can ask :

-I´M C.L. FOR LIVE- just sticking to some ferocious Warriors that are ready to unleash nearly all the devastation that can be brought down on enemies in this game ;)

Picard epicfacepalms out...

Cya on the battlefields

P.s: I forgot about the rules on servers : They do make sense (most times), are not to be joked with (especially on well administered Servers) and just are mostly to guarantee fun for everyone on the Server...

Edited August 11, 2010 by AntalopeAUT

[b00tsy 28]

Wow... FPDR

How about this. We let BIS finish their work, maybe try and get the community to advertise a little but that's tough considering 95% of us don't want BF/CoD players. That means going to sim communities, but that probably won't work considering they will probably have a game. If it does work weve converted a couple hundred people at best, a handful at worst.

You are looking at it at the wrong way I think. A lot of "COD type players" (I am a former one) play those type of games simply because they havent heard about ArmA. I only found out about ArmA 6 months ago, before that I was stuck playing the COD arcade type games while I was looking for more realism and real combat. The notion that everyone that plays COD or similar games are all ADHD teen idiots is simply wrong. And that attitude towards those players will reduce the chance of them trying out ArmA, while they might actually like the style and realism of ArmA.

---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 PM ----------

*Quoteon*

lately I am finding myself playing Domination in SP mode just so that I can do all the stuff I can't do on mp servers, because of all the restrictions.*Quoteoff

Ahhhh, so you are one of those guys that runs to the next Helicopter right after spawning and crashes it inside Base ? ^^

Ohhhh and btw. this is a game where you N E E D to communicate with your teammates...hell, imagine an army consisting of mute soldiers ? How do they get anything done ?

Not by means of verbal comms...thats for shizzle ma nixxxx....

Communication (fast, fluent and precise) will make you survive three to ten times longer than duking it out all alone or encumbering yourself to writing like a maniac in the chat just to get some infos in and out, so better think some ten to twenty times more about your despising of TS/Ventrilo/Whatever.

!And dont forget about all the massively epic team destruction that comes from playing for some time with the same players and hearing them talk to YOU...and before you can ask :

-I´M C.L. FOR LIVE- just sticking to some ferocious Warriors that are ready to unleash nearly all the devastation that can be brought down on enemies in this game ;)

Picard epicfaceplams out...

Cya on the battlefields

For your information, I am not one of those people that crashes choppers or TK's peeps on the base etc.

And the communication is all nicely build in to ArmA with text chat, yet all servers wants you to download external software for communication. I do not need a lot of words for efficient communication.

Btw, I was just voicing my opinion... I really don't get the attitude your giving, but okay.

[polar bear 10]

I haven't seen one person suggest that the controls be "dumbed down".

I asked for better in-game documentation and suggested a pretty minor change of swapping some of the keys so that you'd by default get a setup that is nearer what you have in other games, but that's just a configuration change. As someone who learned the game recently my only problem in learning the controls is I had to search google to find out what some of them were for.

I reject this notion that the game needs a n00b filter, you can have a n00b filter on your super elite password protected we-hate-n00b server. Require people to solve a math problem before handing out the password or giving them their secret decoder ring if you want. The game itself should not have a n00b filter.

On the other hand a realistic milsim type game needs extended controls and I don't think anyone disagrees and I don't think anyone wants them dumbed down. Just better explained--they're really quite easy to learn with a little bit of explanation.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Polar Bear

[AntalopeAUT 10]

Ah...was just prodding you coz ive seen maaaaaaany many of those guys coming on a server and proceeding as written by me.

All I am saying is: This game needs effort ...from you, the P L A Y E R ;)

And i cant quite clearly see your argument with using text chat, especially since i dont even have to lift my hands neither from mouse nor keyboard to talk to my mateswhich i would have to do if i was rapid-typing (even 10 fingers are lame compared to speaking directly to another one, time-wise viewed )

Yes, TS is sometimes quite overrun with people yelling over other people and such...if this is the matter i just switch ts channels and get my whisperlist online (left hand controlled, again no liftoff from important keys or controls).

Furthering the advantage of TS over chatting is still this one thing: many a player tends to ignore chat messages, even when they are directly spammed at them....i guess its from sensory overstimulation or such.

And to come back to a point i already emphasized earlier in another thread :

This game is elite, so play it as such. PERIOD ;)

Btw...if you check your manual ( forget that if you bought a dl ) you WILL find A L L controls proper and nice...

Oh, and if someone didnt notice up to now...the game is already a noobfilter standalone...lawl and unique in this world of gaming as well xD

Cya on the battlefields

Edited August 11, 2010 by AntalopeAUT

[Placebo 29]

I bet some people can even stick an icicle in their rear-end without making a funny face, but that doesn't mean the majority of people ever will.

Well, I'm sure your one of those people. Judging from the amount of smoke your blowing out your ass, it would probably melt before you felt it.

How are such comments 1. mature 2. conducive to this thread's discussion?

Discuss the topic as the mature, sensible forum members I would hope you both are please.

[b00tsy 28]

Ah...was just prodding you coz ive seen maaaaaaany many of those guys coming on a server and proceeding as written by me.

All I am saying is: This game needs effort ...from you, the P L A Y E R ;)

And i cant quite clearly see your argument with using text chat, especially since i dont even have to lift my hands neither from mouse nor keyboard to talk to my mateswhich i would have to do if i was rapid-typing (even 10 fingers are lame compared to speaking directly to another one, time-wise viewed )

Yes, TS is sometimes quite overrun with people yelling over other people and such...if this is the matter i just switch ts channels and get my whisperlist online (left hand controlled, again no liftoff from important keys or controls).

Furthering the advantage of TS over chatting is still this one thing: many a player tends to ignore chat messages, even when they are directly spammed at them....i guess its from sensory overstimulation or such.

And to come back to a point i already emphasized earlier in another thread :

This game is elite, so play it as such. PERIOD ;)

Btw...if you check your manual ( forget that if you bought a dl ) you WILL find A L L controls proper and nice...

Oh, and if someone didnt notice up to now...the game is already a noobfilter standalone...lawl and unique in this world of gaming as well xD

Cya on the battlefields

I don't think you will find a lot of "those people" on this forum. Those people do not bother participating in community discussions. ;)

Sure this game requires an effort, that does not mean people who do not have teamspeak should automatically be excluded and in general being ignored on the servers.

Ofcourse using voice is much more easyer, but again it is the "being forced" to use it that unnecessary creates blockades in MP mode. (and we were talking about making arma more popular and accesible to the general croud)

From all games with an MP mode I buy I expect (to a certain degree) that I can log on and simply have fun right away without going through any hoopla.

With ArmA not having any official BIS servers you are at the mercy of private servers where you can not experience the full joy of MP mode (again in general) unless you have joined the server clan and have installed TS.

I have not read the other thread where you mentioned that this game is "elite. I Do not agree with that. ArmA is a game like any other game, it's some people that like to think and like it to be elite for what ever reason and likes to create an elite atmosphere around the game. In the end we are all people just having some fun with a game (a cool and realistic game) so there is no need to be snobish about it. You and anyone else are not better then me and I am not better then you or any other ArmA player, period. It's just perception :)

Personally I find this game not so hard or experienced a high learning curve or anything, besides from the scripting in the editor. Controls are rather easy once you memorized all the key's/functions.

[JdB 151]

The one thing that would give BIS games more than 20.000 players playing most times would be more funds for marketing. If BIS/IDEA Games could allocate even a tenth of the budget that publishers like EA, Activision and Ubisoft throw at marketing, the game would be known far more than it is now, no matter what state it is said to be in. Gamers already into the simulator scene will hear about the game through the simulator-related sites and forums they visit, but people looking for a more challenging experience than the "realistic military shooters developed with the knowledge of ex-special forces operators"-run&gun fests, that are new to simulators will have trouble finding out about ArmA2.

It's not about what you make, it's how you market your product that decides if you will sell millions of copies these days.

[11aTony 0]

I dont think BIS needs to make whole game more arcadish for the game to be more popular online. Missions are what makes the game popular online. There need to be some nice arcadish missions, possibly featuring some kind of ranking system and/or achievements and need to be tested really good so there are not meny/no exploits. Achievements need to be saved in your profile so you dont have to do everything again when mission on server is restarted. And no, I dont think missions need to be ultra realistic scenarios becouse quite frankly those tipe of mission suck for public gaming. Those missions require you to be on TS or smt. and are usually hard. Good public gaming gives a lot of players. You cant have 20k players in clans on closed servers. ArmA is an open thing and I dont think it should only be used for ultra realistic gaming. Most noobs in A2 come on the server, look around for a min then ask what he needs to do. Then someone tells him to fuck off or dont reply at all. So they go out of the game, uninstall, put it on ebay and make remarks on youtube how A2 sucks ass.

So again, whole game does not need to go arcade if things like achievements, ranking system or physx for that matter are implemented in the game. BIS games are truly amazing but they lack candy that people like.

[polar bear 10]

There is nothing incompatible between being a high skill, elite game, and being accessible.

In the Counter-Strike community you hear the elite players saying surprisingly similar things to what I'm hearing here. You hear about how n00bs aren't willing to invest the time and energy necessary to understand what the game is about and to develop the skills required to play properly. You hear endless griping about TF2 and COD players coming into the game and wrecking the experience in the public servers.

Different kinds of skills and different learning in each game but at the end of the day skill is skill, in any case it's something that takes time and energy and patience to develop.

So has it hurt CS that there are n00bs running around in the pubs ruining the game?

Hell no. It's a numbers game: 90% of players never realize there's skill required to play the game. Of the 10% that do 90% of them never spend the time necessary to become truly elite players.

But you know what? 1% of a big number is a hell of a lot bigger than 1% of a small number. The elite players will retreat to their private servers, in CS they will call it "competitive play" and in ArmA they will call it "tactical realism", but those private servers will have a hell of a lot more elite players on them, because some of those COD n00bs will go on to learn the new game properly and become really good at it.

And also what really is wrong with having pubs full of n00bs who are having a blast enjoying the game? Answer: Nothing.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Polar Bear

[Pain0815 10]

sry wrong post wrong thread.

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

Quote OP:

5. Implement some sort of multi-player achievement tracking system and combine it with some sort of public player profile. Anything from "kill 10 enemies" to "successfully transport troops". Motivate people to go online!

NO NO NO NO NO! NO!

NO! not only is that a TERRIBLE idea, there is no way to build such a system for they highly diverse arma online game. so we can rest assured that we will never be playing, and have a little '"bleep bloop" Achievement unlocked! shoot the bad guy!'

this game wont ever be a popular as other shooters simly because it is so hard. that difficulty is why alot of us are here.

FYI, the guy, there are Steam achievements for Arma 2...

They are kinda stupid and not really developed properly, compared to achievement heavy games, but they are there.

[SPC.Spets 21]

Im a member of a gamer comunity, most of them play BC2, COd4, MW2, etc they love stats and fragcounts. I post a note of this game, explaining everybody that this is not about rambo style lonewolf, this is not arcade and is more sim and teamplay, no stats, etc. And at least 20 of 100 (not exactly) liked the game and understood the game mechanism. But only 10 of those 20 are still playing it, because they want frags and stats, magic boxes coming from the sky, instant respawn, flying knifes, and so on

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Wow, wait. Dont reject that "achievements" idea right from the start. Not because you just tend to know it from other games. The idea can be applied, IF the achievements reflect the general idea of ArmA2.

Create a totally new set of achievements and this could indeed foster reputation and drive sales without compromising the general concept.

[polar bear 10]

Wow, wait. Dont reject that "achievements" idea right from the start. Not because you just tend to know it from other games. The idea can be applied, IF the achievements reflect the general idea of ArmA2.

Create a totally new set of achievements and this could indeed foster reputation and drive sales without compromising the general concept.

I agree! And I'll note that the real world military just loves handing out achievements. The steam achievements are wrong in content, "Shoot 100 seagulls" is not what the game is about. "Revive a team-mate under fire" would be better or even "Drag a team-mate to safety who is subsequently revived by a medic."

There could easily be achievements for co-ordinated attacks like IR marker and laser marker and the like as well. The goal would be achievements that fit ArmA, not a mindless import of achievements from some other game.

"Work together as a team": Complete a mission while staying within 50m of your group leader.

If done properly the achievement system would help new players understand what they are meant to do and then reward them for doing it.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Polar Bear

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

There could easily be achievements for co-ordinated attacks like IR marker and laser marker and the like as well. The goal would be achievements that fit ArmA, not a mindless import of achievements from some other game.

Unless your secretly a BIS Developer, the line in bold is pure speculation and BS. You don't know the engine, and it's code, which means you don't know what's easy and what's not.

[liquidpinky 11]

I agree! And I'll note that the real world military just loves handing out achievements. The steam achievements are wrong in content, "Shoot 100 seagulls" is not what the game is about. "Revive a team-mate under fire" would be better or even "Drag a team-mate to safety who is subsequently revived by a medic."

There could easily be achievements for co-ordinated attacks like IR marker and laser marker and the like as well. The goal would be achievements that fit ArmA, not a mindless import of achievements from some other game.

"Work together as a team": Complete a mission while staying within 50m of your group leader.

If done properly the achievement system would help new players understand what they are meant to do and then reward them for doing it.

Formarly myself being a staunch hater of achievement, "congratulations you managed to tie your shoelaces" etc, I have actually been sold on the idea now.

If done properly then maybe it could add something worthwhile to the game other than some pointless drivel to pad your epeen.