CM Operation Flashpoint 3 announced | "Oops, they're doing it again..."

[Zipper5 74]

On the scale that DR had, and the incredible bore that was the campaign and all SP missions, it's not hard to get that "working out of the box". Would you really want a really boring game that worked exactly as it should but only because of how short it is on features, or would you like one with a few issues but offers a truly unique experience and a developer committed to supporting the game and fixing it's issues? I know which camp I will always remain in.

Oh, and the MP hardly worked out of the box. It was terrible, and the patches didn't fix it. Not to mention that the blurb on the box outright lied about it...

[Flash Thunder 10]

Breaking News: Sion Lenton has finally figured out that Join-in Progress is a Decade+ year old technology.

"it should be the norm"

Didnt we tell you that many years ago.

talk about head in the sand....

FPDR

[Zipper5 74]

I call this stage in sequel development "The Cleanup". Quietly and rather nonchalantly make all the issues of the sequel's predecessor disappear from the public eye. Works on the mindless masses that make up DR's pea-sized "fanbase", at the very least. :rolleyes:

[sparks50 0]

is anyone else getting so excited about the extreme realism OFP3 is going to bring??? :yay:

EA disagrees with that:

"Developed in collaboration with U.S. Special Operations, Medal of Honor brings an authenticity and realism unmatched by any other game on the market."

:D

[Baff1 0]

On the scale that DR had, and the incredible bore that was the campaign and all SP missions, it's not hard to get that "working out of the box". Would you really want a really boring game that worked exactly as it should but only because of how short it is on features, or would you like one with a few issues but offers a truly unique experience and a developer committed to supporting the game and fixing it's issues? I know which camp I will always remain in.

Oh, and the MP hardly worked out of the box. It was terrible, and the patches didn't fix it. Not to mention that the blurb on the box outright lied about it...

Can't say I noticed that myself.

I've only played the game MP in co-op mode and that worked right out of the box. I've had no issues with it at all.

That's what I bought it for, and that's what it did.

You know what my friends biggest complaint about ArmA2 is? Why they won't play it with me? It's too laggy for them. That's what they say. The MP lags.

They didn't say that about DR.

And much as the campaign was boring, so was ARmA's and ArmA 2's wasn't the greatest either. It wasn't even functional out of the box. Despite that I really love the theme of ArmA 2, I haven't finished the campaign. It just turned into some sort of Battlefield type game that really blew and drained the will to play right out of me. You know, like playing BF2 on single player. Not good.

I fully agree that the DR game has less depth.

But I don't have to chose between a game with only limited SP and a game with a broken SP and a promise to fix it.

This isn't a case of either or. Because I have both games. And I can play either.

And I would rather play a more complex game myself, but not always. Because sometimes, the game has to suit more people than just me. Sometimes it has to be accessable to the people I wish to play games with also.

In fairness, while not so many of my friends will play ArmA with me, they all went mad for this.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xklP-yNuU84&hl=en_GB&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xklP-yNuU84&hl=en_GB&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Even the girls.

And while I applaud that BIS is a developer dedicated to fixing problems in their games (not mention improving things and adding content), I get pretty pissed off that they are willing to sell it with those problems included.

I don't feel the money I pay for the game is non-functional in any way and if I did I wouldn't attempt to trade it with anyone. They don't have to come back to me in six months time to get me to fix my payments. They don't have to read up on my personal forums to see if the payments are going to go through before trading.

Would they prefer me to pay on the nail or to pay a little bit towards to and then dedicate myself to paying them the rest later? They wouldn;t accept that from me and I'm not keen to accept it from them.

You will never ever get me standing up and applauding someone for selling me broken goods under false pretences. You will never ever get me standing up for developers who sell unfinished or critically flawed products.

Never going to happen. This is not a bonus.

This is not a sales pitch I can recommend either.

And make no mistake, ARMA 2 did not mention that the single player was broken on the box. (By law, it is required to).

And everytime they do this, they get mauled in the reviews. And rightly so.

It hurts them.

It may be that this is the only way they can release, that they cannot get the funding to complete in time.

I wouldn't find that too hard to believe.

Or it may be that they aren't very good at planning their developments. That they are over ambitious. Or it may be that they get so much fan feedback thanking them for the continued patching and saying how great it is, that they think this is an acceptable way of carrying on... part of their plan.

In which case they don't deserve to make a lot of big money.

(Actually, BIS making massive money and retiring to a life of cocktail parties in Hawaii is one of my fears!. I'm sure they deserve to and that they've earnt it. And if they did a Drytek and and an ID and cashed out the franchise with a console port and retired for life, much as I think they would have earnt this and deserved it and be genuinely pleased for them, I would miss them).

Both ArmA and ArmA 2 are products I enjoy and have enjoyed a lot more than I enjoyed DR. More than I expect to enjoy DR2.

But I still enjoyed DR and I fully expect to enjoy the sequel.

So if for you the enjoyment of one soldier game prohibits the enjoyment of any other, that's your affair. Me? I like soldier games.

Co-op soldier games are the ones I am willing to pay money for.

I don't have enough of these in my repertoire and I look forward to gettting new ones.

And if the developer doesn't support a game that I don't need supporting, then that is something I much prefer to a developer supporting something that I do. (Which is again better than a developer not supporting a game that I do need support for).

And to answer your question do I prefer a great game with some critical issues over an average one without?

Typically, I don't buy BIS games until I am satisfied they have fixed them first.

(I did with OpF and I did with ArmA OA, I must confess).

So my answer to you, is no. I don't.

---------- Post added at 02:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 AM ----------

Breaking News: Sion Lenton has finally figured out that Join-in Progress is a Decade+ year old technology.

"it should be the norm"

Didnt we tell you that many years ago.

talk about head in the sand....

FPDR

He's still not going to have any dedicated servers though. I'll bet money on that.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Baff1

[jblackrupert 14]

On the bright side, IF they include dedicated servers and mod support, and spend more time on it (a lot more time) it could turn out pretty decent. Any competition would be good, frankly.

According to Consolemasters the EGO engine doesn't support dedicated servers. At least that was the reason given for GRID not getting it

after a year of them promising it.

Edited August 3, 2010 by jblackrupert

[cole 0]

EA disagrees with that:

Quote:

"Developed in collaboration with U.S. Special Operations, Medal of Honor brings an authenticity and realism unmatched by any other game on the market."

:D

ahahaha what the shit. I want that guys head on a silver platter.

[Takko 10]

The game will be based in Tajikistan

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/general-discussion-1335/420746-operation-flashpoint-sequel-under-development-7.html

[vilas 477]

nice, so now we will have Tadjyk soldiers in US vest , helmets, uniforms but reskinned to Russian camo ??

oh, super, many deserted mountains areas, again 5 houses on map :D but no trees - so Abrams will be safe to ride :]

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

nice, so now we will have Tadjyk soldiers in US vest , helmets, uniforms but reskinned to Russian camo ??

oh, super, many deserted mountains areas, again 5 houses on map :D but no trees - so Abrams will be safe to ride :]

This maybe allowing 120 fps - enough power will be left for the new feature - up to 120 AI soldiers at the same time :eek: And this time they will fire and hit!

Nah seriously, anyone thinks they'll show new render videos this time that'll be considered ingame footage?

Somehow I think this time we'll have US Army and Insurgents in FPDR II. I just don't know how it came into my mind :D Must be a random thought sticking in my head just like an arrow.

[Tonmeister 14]

The game will be based in Tajikistan

cool! Takistan, Tajikistan, pelican should be a hoot of a fail. more hate on the internet.

[Blackhawk 0]

This whole project is just a joke..

1. The fact that they are still going to call it Operation Flashpoint.

2. No Player vs Player

3. No dedicated support, again

4. A map based on an Asian country that probably is incredibly similar to Takistan. Now with the shitty quality that made Skira island, I can assume confidently this will be as bad.

Those 4 things, have already persuaded me not to buy the game.

[Inkompetent 0]

This whole project is just a joke..

1. The fact that they are still going to call it Operation Flashpoint.

2. No Player vs Player

3. No dedicated support, again

4. A map based on an Asian country that probably is incredibly similar to Takistan. Now with the shitty quality that made Skira island, I can assume confidently this will be as bad.

Those 4 things, have already persuaded me not to buy the game.

Four entire reasons to abandon the game? There doesn't need to be but one: Codemasters.

[thesun 14]

Reading this post it looks to me like he's implying that they'll try to turn the OFP into some sort of Tom Clancy "brand" ?

That's too much already....

[Zipper5 74]

Okay, here we go. Answering a wall-of-text post.

...

*sigh*

Can't say I noticed that myself.

I've only played the game MP in co-op mode and that worked right out of the box. I've had no issues with it at all.

That's what I bought it for, and that's what it did.

What can I say, you're one of the overwhelming minority. The majority, even the "fans" of DR, knew that it was absolutely broken and unfinished. Plus, it's desync was horrible due to the fact it used terrible P2P netcode (apparently done by Quazal, who don't usually do that bad...). If you didn't have those issues, you simply got lucky. But hey, in the end, they lied about the MP on their own box, claiming it's best experienced using dedicated servers, which never came into existance.

You know what my friends biggest complaint about ArmA2 is? Why they won't play it with me? It's too laggy for them. That's what they say. The MP lags.

They didn't say that about DR.

That reminds me of people I sometimes watch on YouTube, popular players of MW2, BC2, etc. "The MP on the 360 lags less than on the PS3", "BC2 used dedicated servers so why can't MW2? That would fix the lag", "P2P works much better than dedicated servers. My connection is always 4 bars". The lag on either console is not dependent on the console in any way, it's dependent on the host. And the host is never a dedicated server on the console, they mixed that up with the PC version. Finally, 4 bars in most games is if your ping is below 100ms, which isn't exactly lag-free.

It's exactly the same as Arma 2. For one, I bet their "lag" was FPS lag, in which case it's caused by their PC being sub-par enough to run DR (which isn't at all performance heavy thanks to it's console optimization), or it was actually desync which is simply caused by your friends' distance to the server and the quality of the connection. It's not caused by Arma 2 itself. Arma 2's MP is actually very fluid unless you're trying to be a sniper.

And much as the campaign was boring, so was ARmA's and ArmA 2's wasn't the greatest either. It wasn't even functional out of the box.

Both ArmA's and Arma 2's campaigns were functional out of the box. I played through both on the first try, and played them through many times afterward. It simply got more fluid for me as it was patched. Something went wrong on your end.

Because sometimes, the game has to suit more people than just me. Sometimes it has to be accessable to the people I wish to play games with also.

Not a game bearing the OFP name. It sounds like your friends enjoyed DR simply because it's more akin to the modern FPS, rather than a simulator like Arma 2. It needs a certain accessability, but not the point that it's dumbed down. And what's with that word, nowadays? "Accessable"? OFP is accessable, so is ArmA and so is Arma 2. But it's not dumbed down, and never will be. Accessable nowadays seems to mean dumbed down...

You will never ever get me standing up and applauding someone for selling me broken goods under false pretences. You will never ever get me standing up for developers who sell unfinished or critically flawed products.

Then why are you standing up for CM's horrible practices deployed with DR? Are you simply blind or do you not care? DR was far, far more broken out of the box than Arma 2. Fact. Even DR's "fans" thought it was. That's pretty bad. For you to think it's not puts you, and your friends, as I said before, in a very, very small minority.

And make no mistake, ARMA 2 did not mention that the single player was broken on the box. (By law, it is required to).

Of course, but it's not broken. It didn't work for you, but it worked for many others, including myself, on the first try. DR on the other hand lied about having dedicated servers on it's box. Heck, it lied by simply having the title "Operation Flashpoint", in my books.

And everytime they do this, they get mauled in the reviews. And rightly so.

It hurts them.

Both Arma 2 and OA got significantly better reviews than ArmA and OFP before it. They were both in substantially better state at release than the previous itterations, and have simply gotten better. So much better that some reviewers have redone their reviews using the latest patches and gave them significantly higher scores. PC Gamer US has also developed a love for Arma 2, see Evan Lahti and ARMACast.

And if the developer doesn't support a game that I don't need supporting, then that is something I much prefer to a developer supporting something that I do.

DR definitely needed support, and it never got it. In fact, the patches made things worse. The latest patch removed mod support entirely, and actually caused hardware issues. Now, I'd make the same comments about your perceptions as I did before, but to be honest I don't want to keep typing it.

All in all you seem to be a much more casual gamer, same with your friends. Therefore you all found DR more enjoyable as it's much more "accessable". That's fine, stick to DR, but you cannot deny that the game is broken in many ways, did not get support, and you as customers were treated like dogs by Codemasters. But hey, if that doesn't bother you, that's your choice. I just think you're simply giving them an incentive to continue such practices by agreeing to give them your money...

[UKWFMental 10]

couldnt agree with you more zipper,

DR had CO-OP that worked all depending on you and your mates having super fast broadband. Normal Multiplayer just sucked bigtime, no dedicated servers meant online just wasnt possible, but the maps were awful anyway.

Only game I have bought and uninstalled on the same day, I followed closely on the forums for many months, hoping just hoping they would sort out what the majority of the users were crying out for. Bugs i can deal with, but the whole setup was just broken.

What pissed me off was their being no apology after the debacle or even a hand up to say look, sorry guys we made a booboo and failed, sorry to have let u all down. But there was none of that so any respect I had left for them went out the window.

maybe they should introduce a BETA to all the users of DR, that way maybe they could make something decent.

So is it definitely true theres no Dedicated servers?

If thats the case, im out and so will the majority of PC clans.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

And while I applaud that BIS is a developer dedicated to fixing problems in their games (not mention improving things and adding content), I get pretty pissed off that they are willing to sell it with those problems included.

You know, I'm sure BIS also doesn't like shipping stuff that they feel could have used some more development time, but we all have to make compromises...

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

I bet the publishers were a major part why the ArmA series had a bad start each time BIS released a game (excluding Operation Arrowhead as a positive example ;) ). Just imagine "It's judgement day for the golden disc, now deliver us (the publisher) something we can sell even it's unfinished - we don't care". As for CM beeing publisher and developer in one person it should make things better - in theory.

Why didn't they deliver what they showed us in the first rendering videos? It was awesome so to say. The final product was a joke to everyone who admired/admires the Cold War Crisis campaign of the original Operation Flashpoint and although I'm not actively playing CWC anymore I still admire the depth of the game, the basics, the road as it began to develop into what we got now. Ever heard of the Outerra Project? I'm getting very very wet pants if I imagine ArmA-like missions included in something like this new virtual world. But that's another story :o

Edit:

By the way ... I've spotted FPDR today in the game section of an electronic market - 45 € :p You should have seen my face in that moment. I was frozen to shock state.

Edited August 3, 2010 by [GLT] Legislator

[Baff1 0]

.

It's exactly the same as Arma 2. For one, I bet their "lag" was FPS lag, in which case it's caused by their PC being sub-par enough to run DR (which isn't at all performance heavy thanks to it's console optimization), or it was actually desync which is simply caused by your friends' distance to the server and the quality of the connection. It's not caused by Arma 2 itself. Arma 2's MP is actually very fluid unless you're trying to be a sniper...

My PC's are all far above the recommended spec for ARMA 2 thanks. Far above the spec of yours most likely too.

ArmA's one of those great titles that can push hardware to the limits of technology. I spend a lot of money chasing the optimum performance for this game. It's my hobby.

I quite agree about P2P servers. That's what you get with consoles.

But as I said before, I play LAN games for multiplayer.

That's simply an issue I didn't have.

The very idea of buying DR for online multiplayer on PC is one I laugh at.

Why would you buy a console port if you were a online gamer.

For that matter I wouldn't dream of buying ARMA for that purpose either. There are just too many titles dedicated to that purpose that don't have to make as many compromises or just plum do it better.

As it happens, you are bang on the money, my friends who complained were trying to play a sniper.

In fact for a couple of my friends playing a sniper is the be all and end all inthese kinds of games. It's what they are looking for.

It should be noted that my friends distance from the server was about 2 feet.

I ould probably move the computers closer together i suppose but I don't think that will really help. Sorry.

If you weren't aware of the gamestopping bugs in ARMA 2's campaign, you might want to check out the support pages. I think Dogs of War was the one that borked the most. AI's completely freezing springs to mind.

I'm pleased that it worked for you and all. But for many many people, it didn't.

And the issues weren't minor ones like an improper animations on the Javelin, they were game breakers. Things that prevented completion of the game.

I also agree that compared to ARMA, DR is dumbed down. Once again, it's a console port. Why would you expect anything different from it?

I don't have any issues with CM's practises over DR.

The price was right. It worked straight out of the box.

I see no reason not to continue to trade with them. I am a satisfied customer.

I've bought CM products for decades now and never been unsatisfied with one once.

As I said to you before. I bought it for a purpose that it fulfilled. I was aware of it's limitations before I bought it. They were broadly what I was expecting them to be, if anything it was somewhat better than I had predicted.

ARMA OA got ace reviews I think. Or at least all those I read were.

ARMA 2 didn't. ArmA 2 to got panned for being a game that was broken on launch. The reviews I read said it was well worth buying for what it achieved but that it had unignorable issues.

Remember all those Youtubes of buildings full of immobilised AI's?

DR didn't need support for me.

It worked straight out of the box. I haven't patched it. The patch didn't address anything more than some multiplayer issues for consolers. It had like about 10 fixes none of which were related to my game experience.

I find patching my LAN to be a prize pain in the butt. You know your friends come over, you've got a room full of people and the game you spent hours preparing is suddenly all out of date and you have to spend hours more in network administration while they all swear at you impatiently.

What a complete arse.

I get my LAN working and then I leave it be. I don't rush to download the latest patches unless they address specific issues I am experiencing.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Ever heard of the Outerra Project? I'm getting very very wet pants if I imagine ArmA-like missions included in something like this new virtual world. But that's another story :o

I wish ArmA2 had microdetails in the terrain like in

. :o

[Baff1 0]

You know, I'm sure BIS also doesn't like shipping stuff that they feel could have used some more development time, but we all have to make compromises...

Seems very likely to my mind.

I still religiously buy multiple copies of all their titles. It's not something I hold against them. But it's not a practise I seek to encourage either.

As an end user, a consumer, this is obviously a business practise that I wish to see stamped out rather than forgiven.

I'm sure BIS would prefer it if I bought their game for maximum price in the first week, adding towards the chart success and the general sales hype of the game. Returning them a larger financial reward.

But we all have to make compromises...

When you make one with me, I am liable to make one back.

I can sympathise with the harsh financial realities of their lives, just as they can with mine.

Edited August 4, 2010 by Baff1

[Heatseeker 0]

I'm sure I mentioned stuff towards that ends.

I still religiously buy multiple copies of all their titles. It's not something I hold against them. But it's not a practise I seek to encourage either.

As an end user, a consumer, this is obviously a business practise that I wish to see stamped out rather than forgiven.

I'm sure BIS would prefer it if I bought their game for maximum price in the first week, adding towards the chart success and the general sales hype of the game. Returning them a larger financial reward.

But we all have to make compromises...

When you make one with me, I am liable to make one back.

I can sympathise with the harsh financial realities of their lives, just as they can with mine.

Its important to make these games work, but its also important to make the games not suck, DR worked but it sucked so.. whats the point?

If the game has bugs the developer can fix them and release a patch but how can they fix suckage?

BIS: "Our game has bugs, lets fix them, test them and release a patch!"

CM: "Our game sucks.. lets rush the *DLC out before everyone finds out!"

OA = good times mate :cool: .

[PogMoThoin 10]

Tajikistan, can they not come up with anything else, ffs. Imitation is the highest form of flattery

[Flash Thunder 10]

This news has basically destroyed my self esteem for the next few years. FPDR

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Tajikistan, can they not come up with anything else, ffs. Imitation is the highest form of flattery

Tajikistan is actually a real country... :j: