Project Reality Development

[norsu 180]

Man, some people just don't understand what modding is all about. But hats off to PR for withstanding all the garbage :cool:.

I have never been into PvP in OFP, ArmA or ARMA2 mostly for few reasons. My main issues which I hope PR will address at least to a degree:

-Clumsy and laggy multiplayer interface all around (the biggest issue IMO)

-Too many different workarounds for things like spectate, spawn options and other common things in modern PvP games

-Many PvP maps use different ways to include features mentioned above which increases confusion

-Many PvP maps encourage the use of vehicle and special weapon spam leaving no specific roles that make modern PvP so great

Basically the whole PvP at the moment feels like a shoddy open source project with unclear goals and bad management. Everyone can make their own solutions and features but in the end it's all scrapped together with duct tape and chewing gum. I hope PR will provide a clear and simple system which uses coherent solutions to create more united and stable PvP community. A unified, clear and non laggy UI for all features would be a great start.

[Tankbuster 1733]

UK_Force;1596776']I apologise .... for sounding cocky on your forums' date=' but my news update is lost now in this thread somewhere, hence I thought a new post would be better.

[/quote']

It aint ideal, but that's how it's done here.

[Alex72 1]

Sorry to hear this UK Force but understandable. Your mod is your mod and your free to do with it as you please - ofcourse. Good luck with the project. Looking forward to the end result!

[Kristian 47]

I still dont understand people who tell mod what they can and what they dont, modders make mods about stuff they want to do, and feel good with. I mean,

ideas are good thing to give to devs, but telling that "you cant do that" and "you should do that" is just wrong. I am no dev myself, but thats how I think it is.

Sorry to heear you leaving the forums UK Force, I was hoping our forums would have been better, but its your call mate, will be checking PR forums obviously everyday. ;)

[Zeron 10]

Next time just send someone to public forums without strict moderation who can handle this "work", Public relation isnt for everyone.

Good luck in the other forums though :)

[cross 1]

UK_Force;1596776']I apologise .... for sounding cocky on your forums' date=' but my news update is lost now in this thread somewhere, hence I thought a new post would be better.

...

I am getting tired of repeating answers, and fed up now of people telling us how to run our Mod.

I was hoping the BIS Forums would be a lot more mature than this ... maybe the are - either way some have treated me like an outcast from the start - which I do not need, I run 3 other forums - and none act like this.

This will save me having to visit here, and sift through countless spam, and countless posts - telling us what we have to do, by many a community member in here - who seem to know so much more than us.

To the ones that do support Project Reality, I hope you take the time to visit us, as like I say we have a decent mature community of our own there.

[/quote']

Well, since you are modding it is YOUR forum as well.. you are modding ArmA2 so it is not PR vs A2 ;).

This happens always, everywhere. Especially when it is all theoratical/planned/WIP stuff you are posting. Simply because everyone has different expectations and a different picture in their minds. It really does not matter what they post because they do not know what it will look like.

Do not generalize or reflect the behavior of a few to the whole community, if you want to be a part of it.

At this stage, (I know it is hard) you MUST filter all other discussions that are non-constructive. Only reply to posts that you deem meaningful to your mod development so that spam will go away in time.

Post your WIP info and reply to meaningful posts, for now...

Things will change when people have something to play with. Even the most against people will download and play with it ;)

Take it easy..keep it up

[Richey79 10]

Damn, is UK Force now leaving these forums? That's a real shame.

I'm afraid I can't be bothered to trawl through the PR forums. Over there, significant news seems to be booted off page one by posts simply saying 'brilliant!' or 'the third class radio operator on map x has 12 eye-holes in his boots - this is incorrect!'

Anyway, this will almost certainly be what Arma2 MP needs. I hope those arguing against the PR/A2 mod realise that most of the gaming scene see Arma2's MP as currently being dead. Coop is boring unless you have a few really good friends who are all dedicated enough to put in many hours work and share exactly the same interests/outlook.

I'm glad that PR/A2 aim to tightly control which servers run their mod. This is the key strength of PR/BF2: unlike current public A2 MP, in public servers for PR/BF2 everyone uses mic, everyone knows what the objectives are and works together to achieve them. Many more people could enjoy A2's MP, but they are bound by time constraints and have to be able to hop onto a server at any time and have a good experience.

Someone earlier in this post became worked up about what he perceived to be 'clunky' animations in Arma2. I personally think this is much less of a problem (not really a problem at all unless not carrying a weapon) than what I've always found to be terrible warping that seems to have been built into the netcode since OFP. Kind of hard to lead a target while it is rhythmically freezing and warping across your screen at 300m out. Hopefully PvP will solve this, and they won't decide to use any NPCs at all in A2/PR.

Good luck to you and your team (make me launch A2 MP browser once again!).

[whisper 0]

If the medical system is more of a gameplay thing than a realism thing then you may want to list it as such, as currently it doesn't look good when you list an unrealistic feature (at least with its current description) as a realistic one.

I may have missed it, but it's only listed as "PR Exclusive", nothing said if it's for "uber realism" or "good gameplay". I see it as purely gameplay thing , imho.

On a side note (not related to your post, Galzohar), gameplay is what I await most from PR, not realism. Which seems to make many here insecure and going full auto on PR team, because they dare doing things their way on an open engine.

What would be the point of BI building such an open engine if it is forbidden by community to do things your way? Shame, real shame

[MadTommy 0]

Damn, is UK Force now leaving these forums? That's a real shame.

I'm afraid I can't be bothered to trawl through the PR forums. Over there, significant news seems to be booted off page one by posts simply saying 'brilliant!' or 'the third class radio operator on map x has 12 eye-holes in his boots - this is incorrect!'

All you need to do is keep abreast of this section.. http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f380-project-reality-news

New news will always be on the 1st post so you wont need to troll through the forums.

But i'm sure the important news will filter through to this post... finding it amongst all the tat may be hard though.

Its a shame the views on both sides appear to have been polarised by a few idiots... that's the power of the interwebs i suppose. The fanboys should meet behind the bike shed and have it out. :)

Edited March 26, 2010 by MadTommy

[User2010 10]

Damn, is UK Force now leaving these forums? That's a real shame.

I'm afraid I can't be bothered to trawl through the PR forums. Over there, significant news seems to be booted off page one by posts simply saying 'brilliant!' or 'the third class radio operator on map x has 12 eye-holes in his boots - this is incorrect!'

You don't need to visit their forum it's all on their frontpage http://www.realitymod.com.

Edited March 26, 2010 by User2010

[cheritto 0]

Very ambitious project, i hope the PR arma team will be able to achieve it.

Better communication system, better gameplay, better wound system as obectives, i cant understand why some guys are complaining.

Dont listen negative cristism and believe in ur dreams :D

[loosebruce 10]

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on!

[galzohar 31]

I may have missed it, but it's only listed as "PR Exclusive", nothing said if it's for "uber realism" or "good gameplay". I see it as purely gameplay thing , imho.

This is a big area however in short we are looking at a much more accurate and intricate health and medical care system than the one currently available in game. Units may fall unconscious if enough damage, pain or blood loss occurs – these units can be resuscitated - as in the real world with appropriate medical attention. Following resuscitation and depending on their injuries they may continue to take an active part in a mission or they may require CASEVAC and further medial attention.

So he definitely said it's supposed to be realistic. But then again reading it again there's no direct mention of unrealistic features in it, so the hope is still there ;)

While I do expect PR to bring the good gameplay, I also hope they do it while minimizing the damage to the realism.

As for the stamina system, while ACE has one, I'd love to see PR come up with a better one, especially considering how many people (myself included) really dislike the ACE implementation and the ACE team claiming that's the best they can do with the engine. It's not that I want to be able to carry a ton of gear - the opposite, I want to have a realistic disadvantage for carrying a lot of gear, but the current ACE stamina system does not provide that properly, and I hope PR can come up with something better.

[Alex72 1]

I like the simple one of VBS2 where you get tunnel vision when tired. Darken edges of the screen and at the same time the borders around the whole screen are stretched making the world on the edges hard to keep track of. Hard to see things move in the peripheral vision. This goes slowly back (effect goes backwards) when you slow down. And if you stop it goes faster back to normal.

However i dont dislike ACE system more than one thing wich is the total blackout.

But this is really another story. Instead of being total OT i hope there is some ideas in this post that can be useful. :)

[MadTommy 0]

So he definitely said it's supposed to be realistic. But then again reading it again there's no direct mention of unrealistic features in it, so the hope is still there ;)

While I do expect PR to bring the good gameplay, I also hope they do it while minimizing the damage to the realism.

It would go against what the pr team stands for.... i know that they started with an very gaming arcade shooter with the ambition to make it far more realistic, i'd eat my hat if they planned to dum down the realistic elements of arma2, quite the opposite is expected. You don't have anything to fear in that regards. The pr community and dev team love their realism. :)

[max power 21]

So he definitely said it's supposed to be realistic. But then again reading it again there's no direct mention of unrealistic features in it, so the hope is still there ;)

While I do expect PR to bring the good gameplay, I also hope they do it while minimizing the damage to the realism.

As for the stamina system, while ACE has one, I'd love to see PR come up with a better one, especially considering how many people (myself included) really dislike the ACE implementation and the ACE team claiming that's the best they can do with the engine. It's not that I want to be able to carry a ton of gear - the opposite, I want to have a realistic disadvantage for carrying a lot of gear, but the current ACE stamina system does not provide that properly, and I hope PR can come up with something better.

As PR is seemingly going to have 'mini-blackouts' as a gameplay mechanic like ACE //facepalm, I can't imagine it will be that much different.

I realize that the devs can't restrict player movement to simulate tiredness... but blackouts? Seriously? After all the cool effects that are possible with the shaders and post processing, and all of the mission side stuff we've seen with Eagle Wing?

[Daniel 0]

I really do hope PR forgoes resorting to blackouts.

I'm sure they won't though, it would fly in the face of good PvP gameplay (although i'm not suggesting blackouts have a place in co-op :D).

[galzohar 31]

I think we'll never see a good stamina system if nobody finds some kind of way to restrict player movement when tired. If I can move just as fast with lots of gear, even if it's limited in duration, will rarely prevent me from carrying that amount of gear if I have any kind of use for it. I'll just rest more on the way and when I do get to the actual combat it won't be a limitation as in actual combat I actually don't run 100% of the time nor do I run for long distances and thus I wouldn't be bothered much by the stamina system. That is at least the problem with the ACE system.

Currently sprinting is disabled after a certain distance. If only jogging was slower by default then you'd actually need to sprint sometimes and making you more tired will reduce your ability to sprint and keep you to jog. Even better if you could disable jogging as well for extra-heavy players after they jog/sprint for some distance. Though I have no idea if any of that is anywhere near possible, but I really do hope PR comes up with a stamina system that goes beyond post-processing effects and knock-downs, as those are hardly anywhere near realistic.

As for the medical system, can't you "jumpstart" people back to life in BF2PR? I really disliked that concept and hope they do something more realistic in Arma 2 PR.

[JdB 151]

All in my opinion:

We've had many problems with PR (Public Relations, not Project Reality) over the years, you just get used to the whining and complaining, the skin thickens over time. Now, whenever someone does (the level of abuse has decreased the last few years in our case, whether that's due to a change in the community, or a change in our strategy, I'm not sure) complain, we just ignore it and Report it to Moderator. They are much more capable of dealing with these problems, getting into the thick of it yourself only causes damages to you and your project. It's all about selective reading and restraint on any news-outlet in this community if you're working on something.

I don't know how much negative criticism Project Reality has gotten over the years in the BF2 community, but it must have been nothing compared to here when they throw the towel (which is their right of course) as far as using this forum goes. One thing I would like to comment on their PR "strategy" from what I've learned, is not to add to the hype yourself, people that have no clue what is going on in your project are more than capable enough of doing that themselves. Saying things like "award-winning" only causes you pain, but does not bring you instant acceptation, certainly not in this community where some have excessively negative attitudes. Constant newsupdates and screenshots is another thing that came to haunt us time and time again. Larger news updates that are thorough and informative that only contain things (around here often mistaken for "promises") you're sure you can achieve being posted on a limited scale is the way to go imo in this community. It has worked for us the last few years.

Best of luck to you guys.

Edited March 26, 2010 by JdB

[Daniel 0]

I'd rather people concentrated on other aspects of military simulation beyond stamina systems full stop. There's more to killing each other than just how far you can run with a 50cal on your back!

Add some darkening to the screen or post processing for now and ask BIS for an engine option (beyond the current sprint followed by jog) in Arrowhead.

[W0lle 1046]

UK_Force;1596776']Myself and the team would like to thank you all for your time' date=' however we simply feel this Forum is not working for us, in a number of ways.

If I am honest - its kind of disappointing.

[i']Project Reality will therefore not be posting in here any more[/i], if you have specific questions, feel free to visit our site, where there is an active community developing, and our team will answer any questions.

To the ones that do support Project Reality, I hope you take the time to visit us, as like I say we have a decent mature community of our own there.

Regards

UKF

We're sorry to hear that but you have to understand that the forum rules apply for everyone and we don't make any exceptions to anyone, no matter how much popular or hyped a Mod is.

In this case we can close the discussion here.

Please refrain from creating any further PR threads here, this goes for anyone.

In addition to what has been said before: We will deal with any PM sent to the PR members which contain spamming, bashing, flaming or any other abusive messages. The forum rules apply for private messages as well.

Edited March 26, 2010 by W0lle