Operation Arrowhead Needs to add a cover system.

[galzohar 31]

When you say "cover system" the first thing that comes to people's mind is Rainbow Six Vegas 2's cover system and they go "omg no! just no!" and for a good reason - that cover system is one of the most unrealistic features ever put into a "wannabe-realistic" first person game. However there are many ways to implement a "cover system" that are not unrealistic, and then again I've yet to see a good one (waiting to see how RO2 does, but would rather not refer to it until it's actually installed on my PC and tested by myself).

[welcome to hell 23]

When you say "cover system" the first thing that comes to people's mind is Rainbow Six Vegas 2's cover system and they go "omg no! just no!" and for a good reason - that cover system is one of the most unrealistic features ever put into a "wannabe-realistic" first person game. However there are many ways to implement a "cover system" that are not unrealistic, and then again I've yet to see a good one (waiting to see how RO2 does, but would rather not refer to it until it's actually installed on my PC and tested by myself).

I agree Vegas cover system ruined the game, since when player take cover it all of a sudden jumps to 3rd person and player can see his surroundings without exposing himself.

And than the enemy player walks in having no idea where you are, (but you can see him in 3rd) and bam its over.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Well that's not what you wrote. Am I supposed to guess you mistyped :j:

My point being, what is anyone doing with a game like A2 when he/she is calling it a shooter. Now, obviously that is not what you meant, but how should I know. Don't blame me for your inability too formulate sentences.

Jesus, you only just got here and you are already more elitist than most of us. Calm down. :p

[max power 21]

I think an 'analogue' stance system would end up making the game look silly. You'd have a bunch of people running around the servers in varying degrees of crouch. You could probably solve the difficulty of moving between up and down stances by double-tapping to snap full up or full down, but I've never really found a situation online or in SP where I was dying to have this feature.

I've seen the AI use cover very well. I was dead beside some Russian machine-gunner and he was using a lamp post as cover. It looked very convincing, actually.

Parenthetically speaking, anyone who takes cover behind an oil drum deserves what they get.

[Defunkt 431]

In terms of a control mechanism variable stance (combined with the current lean) only needs to work as freelook already does, hold another key down and your mouse is manipulating your body rather than your head.

[das attorney 858]

In terms of a control mechanism variable stance (combined with the current lean) only needs to work as freelook already does, hold another key down and your mouse is manipulating your body rather than your head.

Excellent solution :)

[That guy 10]

In terms of a control mechanism variable stance (combined with the current lean) only needs to work as freelook already does, hold another key down and your mouse is manipulating your body rather than your head.

this is how it was in raven shield, however, it was rarely useful as you were unable to use your weapon wile shifting stance, loosing a valuable second wile the enemy gave you terminal lead poisoning

this game does not need a "cover system". any solution only makes the game more cumbersome than it already is

[maddogx 13]

I think an 'analogue' stance system would end up making the game look silly. You'd have a bunch of people running around the servers in varying degrees of crouch.

I think the analogue stance should only affect stationary anims, as it would be completely useless while moving. So if you're standing, go into a slight crouch, then start running, you'll still run in the normal animation. When you come to a stop, you will smoothly return to the previous stance. I guess it would make sense to implement a threshold between stances, so if you were standing, then analogue-shifted your stance over half way to crouch, you would run in the normal ducked animation. :)

I've never really found a situation online or in SP where I was dying to have this feature.

It's happened to me quite a lot. Especially with those low rock walls you find everywhere on Chernarus, going prone will obviousy hide you, but if you want to take a shot over the wall you have to shift into kneel, which exposes most of your upper body. Also, the animations are too slow for my taste. Being able to adjust your position properly would really make all the difference.

[vilas 477]

ArmA 2 absolutely needs a cover system!

I think it is the element that was lacking since OFP days in a game of this scale!

I was disappointed when ArmA 2 did not emphasize on this issue, even thou it is a fantastic game.

Leaning is Ok, but it needs to be fluid, also player is limited to 3 sets of vertical stances, most of my deaths occurred because i was standing to look over a tiny fence or where i had to crouch to look over the bushes.

My biggest wish for Arrowhead is a cover system.

Add Y - axis leaning and make it fluid same for the X - axis!

cover system ?

but there are a lot of objects in editor as sand bag wall and etc.

you can do your own mission using objects from editor and place as much covers as you wish

[sparks50 0]

A cover system is a movement system, its not about a lack of things to take cover behind.

A fluid vertical stance would be fine, but would only be very useful in hot situations for TrackIr users.

(I dont consider the RVS solution with mouse controlled stance a very good one, because you need the controller axis for other things, perhaps at the same time)

I'm a fan of the Call of Juraez 2 cover system, it feels pretty natural and Isn't restricted to specific hardware users. (ignore the slowmotion etc)

SVWNdlpfUu4

I know its a lot to ask for a cover system though.

Edited November 19, 2009 by sparks50

[NeMeSiS 11]

I know its a lot to ask for a cover system though.

If we are going to have a 'cover system' it should be like this though. Its just as natural and fast as walking into an object and crouching, and it doesnt require any extra button presses. And the most important thing is that you arent glued to an object like in GTA4/GoW.

Its one of the best gameplay features ive seen in a while.

[galzohar 31]

Having only 3 stances allows you to only take cover effectively behind objects of 3 possible heights. Heck, in other games certain object heights were so "perfect" (only the top of your head is visible yet you can shoot) that it was simply unfair when they were used as cover, while other objects were pretty useless for cover in comparison. Not having anything more than the stand/crouch/prone and the (very very weird) basic lean is definitely a problem, though a context-sensitive cover system is not necessarily the best solution (and an R6V2-style cover system is obviously a horrible solution).

[welcome to hell 23]

I think an 'analogue' stance system would end up making the game look silly. You'd have a bunch of people running around the servers in varying degrees of crouch. You could probably solve the difficulty of moving between up and down stances by double-tapping to snap full up or full down, but I've never really found a situation online or in SP where I was dying to have this feature.

I've seen the AI use cover very well. I was dead beside some Russian machine-gunner and he was using a lamp post as cover. It looked very convincing, actually.

Parenthetically speaking, anyone who takes cover behind an oil drum deserves what they get.

No they would not run around in variable stances. While adjusting the cover player would be in the spot where he stands since WASD would control the stance instead of movement.

That way player can operate his body and aim and engage targets at the same time. Using nothing but keyboard and mouse. Track Ir or any additional hardware required.

[Pain0815 10]

Try lean + Press alt when your gun is aimed to move your gun in that position to get the bigges part of your body covered while shooting.

If go between crouch and prone just aim down and look up just with your head. So you can find cover behind lower things.

But in know what you mean. It would be cool if you have a new Coverbutton which makes your char take his head and weapon down in standing and crouch position until you release this button so he go back in shooting pos.

But i wouldnt make it interact with objects!

Would be cool this "cover-button" would work for mounted weapons too.

Maybe another stance between crouch <> prone and stand <>crouch where you unable to return fire but you are a bit lower than the firing stance.

Or you Char is going up a bit while aim in in crouched pos like in vietcong

Edited November 19, 2009 by Pain0815

[Defunkt 431]

I'm a fan of the Call of Juraez 2 cover system, it feels pretty natural and Isn't restricted to specific hardware users. (ignore the slowmotion etc)

I haven't tried it myself but from that video it looks poor in terms of weapon model collision (shotgun clipping through box). I wonder if it uses the two - arms - floating - in - space - bullets - fired - from - forehead spatial model that is the bane of so many older games. This allows you (in games like COD4) to engage enemies with only the top inch of your helmet visible. Any sort of automatic-interaction with objects even if only setting the height at which you crouch seems to me to be at odds with the unique integrity of ArmA's player animation (being able to freelook, see your own body and the 100% connect between 1st & 3rd person views).

[max power 21]

No they would not run around in variable stances. While adjusting the cover player would be in the spot where he stands since WASD would control the stance instead of movement.

That way player can operate his body and aim and engage targets at the same time. Using nothing but keyboard and mouse. Track Ir or any additional hardware required.

Well you can already run around while leaning.

So which stance would you revert to, then, when you begin to run? Standing or crouching?

Edited November 20, 2009 by Max Power

[Alex72 1]

WelcomeToHell: "Fanboys"

Do you think you wont find "fanboys" in their favourite games forum? Im am ofcourse a proud fanboy as this is my favourite game, and anyone hanging around his/hers favourite will be a fanboy/girl to that game as well. No need in throwing that word around. If someone thinks the game operates well when it comes to taking cover then its that persons opinion. As its said you can take cover very well in ARMA2 as it is now. And many im sure havent thaught of that. Lean down and then use freelook to look/aim around. Works pretty good.

I would not want a button to press and my guy suddenly bonks down. Like that ridiculous Vegas game where you press a button and the unit slams his back onto the wall... I want to work in the game - use skill to move and take cover. Not press a button and get perfectly fitted onto a wall or down behind cover.

[galzohar 31]

"100% connection between 1st and 3rd in Arma 2"? Where did you see that? I've created many situations in which i will see myself perfectly fine in 1st person, but switching to 3rd person (while not moving a single inch) made my character clip through the terrain (weapon, upper body, etc).

As much as I love this game, it still needs an incredible amount of work and has an incredibly high amount of very annoying issues.

[LJF 0]

Please no cover system: they suck, ruin immersion, look horrible, hardly even work in linear arcade games, feel robotic, make me feel sick, and add nothing whatsoever to the sorry games they are in.

Walk behind something and crouch, there, you have cover.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Imho AI needs to be tweaked more to increase they awareness about different objects and how effectively they can use it. Some extra animations would be nice too or maybe some sort of "extented default animations" that are useable with keyboard + mouse eg. slowly peak around objects, move slightly, throw or roll a handgrenade, weapon resting...

[jw custom 56]

As much as I love this game, it still needs an incredible amount of work and has an incredibly high amount of very annoying issues.

Couldn't agree more.

[johncage 30]

Please no cover system: they suck, ruin immersion, look horrible, hardly even work in linear arcade games, feel robotic, make me feel sick, and add nothing whatsoever to the sorry games they are in.

Walk behind something and crouch, there, you have cover.

wrong:

more complex cover system please. variable height and angle to avoid fire. ability to stick to cover to minimize profile.

thank you/

[max power 21]

I guess that's a bad example. You could pretty much recreate that scene in ArmA 2 100% the way the stances are now. Two people sitting and one on one knee with binoculars. The wall I guess is at the correct height.

You'd never come across that situation in ArmA, either. People don't take cover and hang out for a while like that. They are always peering over the edges of walls, butt up against them, and if they don't have an opportunity to fire in anger within 10 seconds they either move on or begin shooting at birds or barrel.

A lot of the issue people have with stance heigh can be resolved by controlling your distance between you and your cover.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Max Power

[jtec 0]

I would love to see this variable stance in Op Arrowhead! You would have to be mad not to want such a system implemented, the stance could easily be controlled with a keyheld followed with mouse movements. It would deal with alot of the problems with cover either being too high or too low to be of use!

[LJF 0]

Variable stance is fine, but not a cover system like was suggested, that's just not right. Vegas was awful.

However, a variable stance system would be difficult to implement, and there are other things I think are much more important at the moment, such as countermeasures, fire control systems and armour penetration for light/heavy vehicles. Or an improved lighting system to help with the flashlights (shadows), I played OFPDR the other day and tried out the flashlights, my suspicions were well founded it seems, no shadows. I cannot stress just how much this doesn't work, or how much it just looks wrong.