Zeus AI Combat Skills

[miles teg 1]

Yup for the first time I fought against Zeus AI WITH the ACE2 mod on the Tactical Gamer server (Alpha server). The AI DEFINITELY kicked ass and put up a really tough fight. I remember joining one mission in progress and was listening to the comms on team speak. I heard, "Oh crap, they're flanking! They're flanking! It's a whole damn squad!! They're coming in now on your rear! Face to the rear!" Followed by "They just wiped out our whole squad" and then on survivor in panic saying that two tanks had followed him and were bearing down on his position...this was shortly followed by "Crap..they got me!" lol!

That mission was a bit disorganized by TG standards. The next missions were done more professionally with proper bounding overwatch and squads designated to certain areas in the platoon formation in order to provide overwatch and flank protection for the main assault element. Once we used such tactics (along with proper formations, bounding overwatch, etc...) we did much better but not without some fairly fierce firefights and a few KIA.

At any rate, you learn REALLY quick with Zeus AI, not to get tunnel vision and to always check your flanks and rear as well as not to take for granted that some guys running behind you are friendly. lol

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

Edited December 11, 2009 by Miles Teg

[Tonci87 163]

Hmm I guess I´ll give Zeus AI a second try then. But I was getting CTDs with Both Zeus and ACE activated. It was in the BIS Bear Rising Mission. It became completely unplayable with a CTD every 5 Minutes at the End of the Mission

[(AEF)Swordsman 10]

On our server we found if you run the latest version without the experimental pbo it doesnt crash. In saying that the AI still engage with RPG's from a few hundred, so no loss there :D

Easily our most used addon to date - there needs to be an over-ride to disable ACE-AI and replace it entirely with Zues. :)

[Helmut_AUT 0]

Okay, I had some really nice fight today with a single enemy soldier holding up my whole spec ops teams of 5. I just couldn't pinpoint the sucker and he kept firing, was hidding in grass too. Had to offer myself as bait and rear-end him with two AI.

So if those increased tendency to spot and fire came from Zeus, then it really is a good mod.

The ony thing that bugs me a bit (using an older beta, I think 588, and the appriorate Zeus version) is that my team is constantly reporting vehicles and tanks from miles away and opposite a hill. "Tank at 079106"

Is this a problem with the beta builds, or with the increased awareness of Zeus AI that makes them spot these things?

[walker 0]

Hi all

There is talk of the Zeus AI occasionaly mugging and even kidnapping people. There is no proof of this! I suspect it is a rumour started by people with a political axe to grind wanting to criminalize Zeus AI and wanting people to vote for other AI systems.

Kind Regards walker

Edited December 11, 2009 by walker

[Tonci87 163]

Hi all

There is talk of the Zeus AI occasionaly mugging and even kidnapping people. There is no proof of this! I suspect it is a rumour started by people with a political axe to grind and wanting people to vote for other AI systems.

Kind Regards walker

WHAT? You serious?

[hund 0]

WHAT? You serious?

I think Mr. Walker might be exaggerating a little bit there. An AI stole a SMAW and some ammo from an injured dude, then watched him die slowly and painfully. No one was kidnapped.

And for all we know this may have been BIS AI at work.

[Tonci87 163]

I would call this a cool Feature

[.kju 3240]

Thanks for your effort! Way more fun to play this way.

That said please fix your configs.

a) No cfgAddons preloading. It is a BIG no no.

b) Do not define empty classes.

zeu_cfg_core_ai_engagement

http://pastebin.jonasscholz.de/320

class zeu_core_ai_skills

http://pastebin.jonasscholz.de/321

zeu_cfg_core_ai_spotting

http://pastebin.jonasscholz.de/319

[fabrizio_t 58]

Tried a bit more v1.02.05 and i think i like it very much.

In MP is just great.

In SP is great as well, as long as a stealthy approach is not needed. However this has probably more to do with ArmA2 spotting problems than to applied workarounds.

Great work so far, shame i can't force myself to like AI of latest beta builds :)

[Tonci87 163]

What are the problems if a stealthy approach is needed?

[fabrizio_t 58]

What are the problems if a stealthy approach is needed?

Sorry, i am talking about AI vs. AI tactics, don't want to create a misunderstandment.

Problem is that, quite independently on the units skill, distance ad time needed for spotting enemies is roughly the same. So uber-skilled AI units normally end being spotted just a moment after spotting enemy recruits. That does not leave much room for AI based stealthy tactics.

This is not a Zeus mod problem strictly speaking though.

It has probably to do on how spotDistance and SpotTime are scaled.

Also the raised sensitivity in ArmA2 v. 1.04 is partly responsible of the problem (while it cures many other issues).

Obviously this is just my opinion, i may be proven wrong.

Now i'll stop hijacking this thread, mercy Protegimus :)

Edited December 12, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[Tonci87 163]

Thats Ok I planed to test zeus together wit ACE on the Seal Team Six 3 campaign that is gonne be released next week. I was a little bit worried, because in the Seal team Six campaigns you really need Stealth

[Protegimus 0]

Thanks for your effort! Way more fun to play this way.

That said please fix your configs.

a) No cfgAddons preloading. It is a BIG no no.

Thanks for keeping me right kju!

Out of interest can I ask what the problem is with this...think I picked it up from ArmA references?

b) Do not define empty classes.

...

Can you clarify how I should declare classes that should inherit from a parent I've modified, e.g. I modify M24 properties:

class M24 : Rifle {
aiRateOfFire = 10;	// delay between shots at given distance
aiRateOfFireDistance = 1200;
};

and I want the M40A3 to inherit the modified properties, but this:

class M40A3 : M24 {};

is incorrect? (don't be afraid to spell it out, what's obvious to you is almost rocket science to config newb's :)

Thanks for your assistance,

Protegimus

---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------

...So uber-skilled AI units normally end being spotted just a moment after spotting enemy recruits. That does not leave much room for AI based stealthy tactics.

...Also the raised sensitivity in ArmA2 v. 1.04 is partly responsible of the problem (while it cures many other issues).

...

Now i'll stop hijacking this thread, mercy Protegimus :)

Beta 61032 AI are performing quite well (61062 not), though they often bunch up too much when moving tactically as mentioned above.

As we have discussed before and hopefully for BIS reference, build 60803/60819 provide the best AI combat performance; both from testing and actual gameplay.

I recommend not loading BIS hotfix.pbo (supplied with beta builds) when using Zeus AI, as with that sensitivity is set the same for all unit types.

I haven't specifically optimised the AI SF class sensitivity values in zeu_cfg_core_ai_spotting at this time, though they certainly have an advantage over lesser units. There is no doubt mileage to achieve what you want from careful optimisation - drop me a PM if you need more specific direction. It would be great if you share any optimised values too.

[Tonci87 163]

What does the hotfix.pbo actually do? What happens if i delete it from the Beta Folder?

[KNac 10]

Nothing, it changes sensitivity as Protegimus said. What would happen is you would keep 1.04 sensitivity values if I'm right, which are better for running Zeus AI, as different classes will have different sensitivity (i.e. FR > resistance).

I think you guys are running ACE on Zeus servers now Protegimus, do you recommend using Zeus AI with it? What do you think about AI changes with ACE? (tbh, I'm starting to get a bit crazy about what changes what: last beta builds change a lot of the AI and ACE has totally different weapon ballistics/accuracy so I'm not sure what does what at this point).

[Tonci87 163]

Thats exactly the point why I´m not sure If i should make Zeus AI implemented on our Clan Server. We are running ACE and the last Thing i want is a server crashing, but the zeus AI changes are awesome

[.kju 3240]

class Rifle;
class M24: Rifle
{
aiRateOfFire = 10;	// delay between shots at given distance
aiRateOfFireDistance = 1200;
};

That's enough. Via inheritance the M40A3 class will get it anyway.

Only if BI classes define a value, you need to redefine it.

so

class A { time = 5; }

class B: A {}; // no changes - B gets and therefore has the same content/values as A

class C: A { time = 6 };

so if you want to modify those values,

you only need to redefine the values for class A and C.

[Protegimus 0]

Zeus AI Combat Skills for ACE is released and available from the download link in the first post.

This version is built for ACE compatibility from the ground up, is tested in multiplayer & single player and causes no known issues.

To be clear, this is a dedicated version for ACE (and actually requires ACE to load). The original version is not required to work with ACE.

The original Zeus AI Combat Skills is still valid for standard and beta ArmA 2 play and will be updated when required.

Release notes in the attached readme.

Protegimus

[jasonnoguchi 11]

I just tested this ACE version putting 2 squads 500m apart with clear line of sight on utes base and for as long as i have waited, they did not spot each other... how come? :( tot they were supposed to spot and engage at about 600m?

Other than that, once engaged, the enemies are BAD ASS!!!! :) Very fierce and sustained fire fight. Machine gunners used suppressive fire VERY effectively. in fact, mggunner runs out of ammo way too quickly! hahahaa. However, when under suppressive fire enemy AI did not take effective cover nor look suppressed and returned fire out in the open all the same.

Edited December 14, 2009 by jasonnoguchi

[OrdeaL 10]

Protegimus: Hey thx for your great work but i cant figure out if i need Zeus before or after ACE/X in the target line..

i.e "C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\ArmA 2\beta\arma2.exe" -noSplash -noFilePatching -maxmem=2047 -world=empty -mod=beta;@Eng;@Zues;@CBA;@ACE;@ACEX

or "C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\ArmA 2\beta\arma2.exe" -noSplash -noFilePatching -maxmem=2047 -world=empty -mod=beta;@Eng;@CBA;@ACE;@ACEX;@Zues

Some people say the 1st one some say the 2nd way..which is right?? lol

[Protegimus 0]

Protegimus: Hey thx for your great work but i cant figure out if i need Zeus before or after ACE/X in the target line..

...

"C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\ArmA 2\beta\arma2.exe" -noSplash -noFilePatching -maxmem=2047 -world=empty -mod=beta;@Eng;@CBA;@ACE;@ACEX;@Zeus

Some people say the 1st one some say the 2nd way..which is right?? lol

Put it at the end, after @ACEX;

[Tonci87 163]

Tjanks for the ACE compatible Version, gonna test it out soon

[fabrizio_t 58]

Beta 61032 AI are performing quite well (61062 not), though they often bunch up too much when moving tactically as mentioned above.

As we have discussed before and hopefully for BIS reference, build 60803/60819 provide the best AI combat performance; both from testing and actual gameplay.

I recommend not loading BIS hotfix.pbo (supplied with beta builds) when using Zeus AI, as with that sensitivity is set the same for all unit types.

I haven't specifically optimised the AI SF class sensitivity values in zeu_cfg_core_ai_spotting at this time, though they certainly have an advantage over lesser units. There is no doubt mileage to achieve what you want from careful optimisation - drop me a PM if you need more specific direction. It would be great if you share any optimised values too.

From what i know DEVs have actually tried to roll back AI behaviour to 608XX version. The roll-back was done in 60902 build, if i recall correctly.

I am trying build 61062 and i saw too the attitude of AI "bunching".

Also noticed they still make a lot of pointless movements when some cover is nearby. They seem working better on open terrain.

All in all in 61062 i see improvements compared to 60890-60896 builds, formation is indeed softer and more "natural", but still there are problems.

I did not test 61032, thanks for the hint, i'll give it a try.

EDIT:

still looking for some good sensitivity values for SF, but what i noticed is that putting max spotDistance back to 1 in CfgAISkill gives a better chance of having stealth working correctly (eg: higly skilled units having a chance to detect on distance low skilled enemies while remaining undetected). It looks like that values way over 1 are giving lowly skilled units (0.25-0.50) too good spotting performance, almost on par with highly skilled units.

Edited December 14, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[deralky 10]

Hi

when i understand it correctly than,

when the server has the mod actived the non Player Controll AI will be changed from this mod right?

So when we wont to play an Coop Mission without own AI Troops is it than enough to only run the Mod on Server?