Zeus AI Combat Skills

[Gearson 0]

Protegimus:

I generally enjoy how this mod affects the AI. However, when using a blufor AI sniper equipped with an m107, I found him to be fairly ineffective at ranges of about 800m, plus or minus 200m or so. This was in spite of the fact that I had used every trick I know to increase the AI skill. I use setSkill [number] as well as setSkill [array] to max out all skill parameters, rank is set to colonel, and AI skill and precision are both set to 1 in the server profile. For ten magazines of ammo, I'd estimate this AI was able to get perhaps 4 kills. By comparison, I was able to get more than 20 kills as the sniper on the same mission with 10 magazines. I should point out that when I played as the sniper, I played largely by myself. When using the AI sniper, I played as a high commander directing a platoon sized supporting element. When playing the sniper by myself, the platoon sized element was still in the mission, but they spawn in a location that minimizes their effect on the scenario. In both scenarios, the sniper was able to remain largely stationary. For many situations, I find the current AI accuracy could stand for slight improvement, but in cases like these I think a greater improvement is warranted. Isn't there some way to greatly improve accuracy for units that are mostly stationary, but only slightly improve accuracy for units which are regularly mobile?

Another thing: I do find that at night the AI are just a little bit better than I am, while I can generally outclass the AI playing the same mission during the day.

Thanks again for your time.

[fabrizio_t 58]

- AI use smoke and frag. Be aware of your enemy's ability to throw frags!

Protegimus, how is this supposed to work?

Didn't saw AI throwing smoke grenades and rarely fragging.

Resorted to create my own script for CQB fragging.

The only smoke grenades i've seen were those launched by AI with M203, but that's a known vanilla bug (they deplete explosive rounds and start throwing smoke grenades).

Thx.

EDIT: i have fairly high arma2profile settings:

skillFriendly=0.99000019;

skillEnemy=0.99000019;

precisionFriendly=0.85000014;

precisionEnemy=0.85000014;

I use units with 50%-100% skill in editor.

Edited December 3, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[spangg 0]

At work at the moment, but it would be great if someone could test if ai snipers are really that bad as it is mentioned a few posts up COMPARE TO VANILLA AI! if nobody I will do in the evening. Maybe a check with slx and Zeus ai 2gether as well?

I'd expect a real danger from the M107, at least a kill after every 3 shots under 600m and at least 2 out of 10 anywhere under 1000. What do you guys think?

Maybe the ai_precision is way too low on .2, .5?

Or what else?

Is it possible to give better aiming to snipers?

Edited December 3, 2009 by spangg

[Protegimus 0]

Protegimus, how is this supposed to work?

Didn't saw AI throwing smoke grenades and rarely fragging.

...

Video link in first post here demonstrating a lot of the features and hopefully dispelling the confusion.

Smoke is nothing like on the scale of VFAI where I believe it is a scripted response to almost every contact - I'm sure you can use that too if you like!

Helmut_AUT: When using the latest betas, move or rename the BIS hotfix.pbo This is the mechanism BIS has used to increase engagement range, by setting

sensitivity = 3.75;

for every 'person' class in the game.

Zeus AI takes a much more refined (imo) approach, adjusting sensitivity on an individual class basis, so that your basic peasant farmer doesn't have the same ability to detect enemy presence as a Spetznatz sniper.

Alex72: I haven't inspected the UPS, but unless it does something funky with the AI Skill values it should work very well with Zeus AI.

Inkompetent: Thanks for pointing me to that - update prepared, video on the first post to demonstate its effectiveness, I'll release as soon as I've had the opportunity to test against the new betas!

Gearson: I haven't tested use of AI snipers at such extended range, it wasn't really in the scope of the work I was doing. I'll have a think about your comments to see if I can come up with something, but any change would have to be very carefully implemented for the right effect, no-one's gonna enjoy getting blown away by an AI sniper from 800m+

[Gearson 0]

Gearson: I haven't tested use of AI snipers at such extended range, it wasn't really in the scope of the work I was doing. I'll have a think about your comments to see if I can come up with something, but any change would have to be very carefully implemented for the right effect, no-one's gonna enjoy getting blown away by an AI sniper from 800m+

I respectfully disagree. Look at it this way - who would enjoy having a sniper on their team who cannot seem to hit the broad side of a barn at 800m with an m107? I, for one, do not. Keep in mind that my server and mission were setup to use the highest skilled and most accurate AI possible for the game. Given that most people will probably not be doing this, I would think there would be a bit of wiggle room before many people start getting blown away at 800m on the first shot. I've looked at the config files and I understand it's a bit of a tall order, but I would really appreciate it if something could be done. I hope there are others who feel the same way. Mission designers should be able to adjust the skill of their enemy snipers if they feel it is a problem.

[Alanthegreat 10]

This is the Best mod for Arma 2 in my appion. I have it on my two servers LastSight Online and F2F lastsight Online Servers. It has changed the game for us in all MP modes. It know forces people in the server to work together, that is why this is the best. Protegimus thank you for programing it. To have it run on the server with out needing it on your computer is great. I have lost some people on my server because it is too hard for them but for the rest of us we would not have it any other way. this is a great mod I can not wait to see what you come up with next. Also no problems with the mod so far it has changed the game for the better on MP. you have help me get people on my server and make them work togather with out me having to say a word on the game or team speak. The only thing I want is to get the enemy Ai to stop flanking the same way all the time and work a little more like a team with supresing fire and then flank at the same time. But that is not your fault. HAve a mary Christmas.

Alanthegreat LSO

[jasonnoguchi 11]

Does the AI in this mod attack differently using different weapons? i.e suppressively using MG, long range using sniper and assault on assault rifles? or do they all charge at the enemy no matter what weapon they are carrying?

[Protegimus 0]

New version available for download on first page.

Tested with latest beta 60899, however (especially server admins) please take note of the following advice in order to get the best experience:

Server admins are recommended to use Zeus AI Combat skills version: 1.02.05

server side in combination with ArmA 2 beta build version: 1.04.60803

AI performance in build 60803 is currently superior to that of later releases,

including 60899 from an infantry combat perspective.

Typically 60803 AI respond better to engagements, provide more effective

suppression, make better use of cover & concealment, maintain formation during movement and make improved flanking attacks.

Client side, build 60899 appears to maintain a better frame rate and AI no

longer shoot while changing stance, reducing the danger of friendly fire.

However, AI are much more hesitant under contact and when attacking a position tend to make more direct frontal attacks with lower strength in numbers and without providing covering fire!

Engagements are pretty awesome using the 60803 and 1.02.05 combination.

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

Does the AI in this mod attack differently using different weapons? i.e suppressively using MG, long range using sniper and assault on assault rifles? or do they all charge at the enemy no matter what weapon they are carrying?

jasonnoguchi, I was able to achieve pretty much what you are asking with just the mission editor. Seperate the sniper team from the assault team and make certain the sniper is the senior rank (otherwise the observer will probably order him to attack). If you use Zeus AI and increase the skill of the sniper/observer team, they will probably detect contacts close to their location and engage of their own accord. You could test out the same method for the gunners.

Zeus AI Combat Skills does not directly modify the behaviour of the AI to the level you describe. However the changes it makes in ability, to simulate the different soldier roles does go some way to achieving this. Ultimately, for an AI squad if the squad leader orders the squad members to attack, that's what they will do.

Overall it is still a significant improvement over vanilla AI performance, even taking the latest hotfix changes into consideration.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Protegimus

[Alex72 1]

Thanks for the update Protegimus! :)

Just to be clear though. Do we as players (not server) set the arma2.profile to what you wrote on the first page?

recommended skill settings for the profile:

skillFriendly=0.89999998;

skillEnemy=0.89999998;

Recommended precision settings for the player/server profile are:

precisionFriendly=0.5;

precisionEnemy=0.2;

Playing with latest beta 60899.

Thanks.

[froggyluv 2136]

Tried the latest version with the 819 beta and the infantry won 3-5 this time over abrams which is alot better than 0-8 in my Tank/Infantry test mission.

Next I disattached (ungrouped) all of the Infantry units so that they had no "Groups" but the same waypoint ie.Guard/Sentry given individually. Infantry won 8-0 and it wasn't even close. They lit up that Abrams before he ever gets to town the good majority of the time.

This leads me to believe that there is something about the AI leader's group commands that actually renders the individual units less effective :eek:

Sounds like a good case for a fraggin!

[Alex72 1]

Is it ZEUS AI that makes the AI fire at helicopters with small arms? Never saw it before but i dont know if its the latest beta.

However if it is ZEUS im wondering if its possible to change to that they fire only upon transport helis? Firing a M4 at a full fledged attack helicopter is not a very smart move lol. Leads to certain death basically all the time.

Really liking everything else in the update. :)

[snakedoctor34 10]

New version available for download on first page.

Tested with latest beta 60899, however (especially server admins) please take note of the following advice in order to get the best experience:

Server admins are recommended to use Zeus AI Combat skills version: 1.02.05

server side in combination with ArmA 2 beta build version: 1.04.60803

AI performance in build 60803 is currently superior to that of later releases,

including 60899 from an infantry combat perspective.

Typically 60803 AI respond better to engagements, provide more effective

suppression, make better use of cover & concealment, maintain formation during movement and make improved flanking attacks.

Client side, build 60899 appears to maintain a better frame rate and AI no

longer shoot while changing stance, reducing the danger of friendly fire.

However, AI are much more hesitant under contact and when attacking a position tend to make more direct frontal attacks with lower strength in numbers and without providing covering fire!

Engagements are pretty awesome using the 60803 and 1.02.05 combination.

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

Do we have to remove the hotfix.pbo with 60803 as suggested...

Edited December 6, 2009 by snakedoctor34

[SnR 1]

Any chance of a 1.04 update Only ;)

[manzilla 1]

Any chance of a 1.04 update Only ;)

For what? Shouldn't this work just fine with v1.04? Unless I'm confused here it's the more recent betas where the AI has been changed by BIS. I think v1.04 should benefit greatly by this Mod. I could be wrong though.

[TheCrusader 10]

Hi Protegimus,

I just tested your addon with beta 803 and your suggested skill settings, and its an amazing experience. Thx for all your work and testing!

[fabrizio_t 58]

AI performance in build 60803 is currently superior to that of later releases,

including 60899 from an infantry combat perspective.

Typically 60803 AI respond better to engagements, provide more effective

suppression, make better use of cover & concealment, maintain formation during movement and make improved flanking attacks.

Client side, build 60899 appears to maintain a better frame rate and AI no

longer shoot while changing stance, reducing the danger of friendly fire.

However, AI are much more hesitant under contact and when attacking a position tend to make more direct frontal attacks with lower strength in numbers and without providing covering fire!

Engagements are pretty awesome using the 60803 and 1.02.05 combination.

Nice to hear your opinion, Protegimus.

I absolutely agree with you.

Any builds between 60588 and 60819 provide a great AI challenge.

Build 60803 and 60819 are quite similar, i'd choose the latter due to these bugfixes:

[60818] Fixed: AI no longers switches to aware when player leader turns in in an armored vehicle, it only goes prone/crouch.

[60818] Fixed: AI groups never went to "combat" when player was a tank commander, resulting in multiple "under fire" messages.

[60818] Improved: AI subordinates in player's group now report Clear as appropriate unless player has given Danger command.

Would you mind to post your opinion/findings into the main BETA thread?

I think most people did not noticed this sensible AI behaviour degradation with latest builds ...

EDIT: downloading the latest 1.02.05 version ...

Edited December 6, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[mr_centipede 31]

I played this with 60899, got pinned down, surrounded and out of ammo. Need to put arty support in that mission. hehe. good job on this mod. really feel the intensity. and hearing the AI report "oh no! out of ammo", really gives you a sense of futility.

[Protegimus 0]

Thanks for the update Protegimus! :)

Just to be clear though. Do we as players (not server) set the arma2.profile to what you wrote on the first page?

...

Thanks.

You're welcome and arma2.profile settings are recommended for players so you get the benefit when playing campaign or missions in single player mode. Plus, if you are playing on a multiplayer server, any AI you command will benefit from the improved AI behaviour.

For servers, recommended settings should always be implemented.

As an aside, if anyone is doing testing with variations in skill and precision, go ahead and post your findings.

Do we have to remove the hotfix.pbo with 60803 as suggested...

Yeah, ref. the Changelog, just move the files out of the ..\ArmA 2\beta\addons directory

More info on the whys and wherefors here.

Any chance of a 1.04 update Only ;)

No changes required for base version 1.04. Pretty much everything works as it's supposed to.

You'll lose out on improved AI tactics and behaviour though, in an engagement they will return fire, but often seem rooted to the spot where the firefight began. Build 60803 is much more of a challenge and lots more fun - lot's of experienced players handed one by the AI's pretty decent use of the four f's...

Nice to hear your opinion, Protegimus.

I absolutely agree with you.

Any builds between 60588 and 60819 provide a great AI challenge.

Build 60803 and 60819 are quite similar, i'd choose the latter due to these bugfixes:

...

Thanks fabrizio, will test and report back!

-- Edit 06.12.2009 16:27 --

60819 came through testing. One question I couldn't definitively answer was if AI still lay down as much suppressive fire when manoeuvring as with 60803?

The are certainly making decent use of cover & concealment.

Thanks again to Big and the guys at Armaholic, download mirror is updated!

Edited December 6, 2009 by Protegimus
Question regarding build 60819 and fire suppression

[Gearson 0]

Thanks for the update, Protegimus. I noticed a significant change in accuracy overall, however the sniper was as ineffective as ever. Not sure what to make of that. Still, I enjoy it overall. Cheers.

[miles teg 1]

I have a question. On the latest versins of Zeus, is the AI accuracy increased or decreased. The reason I ask is that while suppressive fire is all fine and good, in real life, AK47's and their variants do not have good accuracy. An experienced rifleman can generally only hit 200 meter man sized targets consistently. I imagine the Ak74 and AK-107 are prehaps ok out to 300 meters. Even accurate 5.56mm rifles like the M4A1, are generally not used past 300 meters without magnified optics and other modifications.

So to be sniped by some terrorist with an AK47 from 500 meters becomes highly annoying. This is one area where I really hope Zeus AI improves things so that firefights last much longer and so that players are not immediately gunned down at long range. That way players can experience the real beauty of Zeus which is how the AI fire and maneuver at closer range to flank, surround, and assault extremely aggressively.

Anyways, thats just my 2 cents worth.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Inkompetent 0]

That would be nice indeed. Pin 'em down with PKs and SVDs at 500 meters, pin 'em down even more with RPKs at 300 meters, and finish them off with AKs and hand grenades up close :)

[miles teg 1]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Medium machine guns and sniper rifles are great longer range weapons where as assault rifles should be for the up-close and dirty work under 300 meters. Good suppressive fire on the part of MG's like the M240 and PKM would definitely pin a squad of players down, and from what I experienced from the Zeus AI, they are more then capable of moving in for the kill, flanking, surrounding, and destroying with truly viscious assaults that leave squads of human players fighting for their lives. From my experiences with Zeus it truly feels like I am playing against real human players. No longer can I take for granted that I can easily ambush an enemy AI patrol with a small squad. Now, the react like professional soldiers to contact with quick flanking maneuvers and covering fire. So like a real life ambush my squad then has to quickly pull back and readjust positions or better yet, have another squad or two man team covering the flanks to mop up. Likewise for assaults or defensive tactics, human players have to be on top of their game using real life tactics to defeat the AI. What's awesome is thta it forces squad leaders to really take their roles seriously in COOP missions and to really think out how the AI might react and what measures to take to counter what will be a very aggressive and tactically superb reaction. It definitely gives you and your team a profound sense of satisfaction when you defeat the Zeus AI on missions.

Taming the "sniper AK's" would just, I believe, remove the one insanely annoying aspect of ArmA2 AI (aside from their nasty habit of shooting through trees and bushes at times, but that's for another mod to solve probably).

Anyways... in summary, I LOVE this mod and I really hope that it keeps getting better and better.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[KNac 10]

Miles have you decreased the AI skills in your profile? That's why you may be getting 'sniped' by AK74's.

Also, new beta which is supposing to make AI squads better again (like early 608xx releases), so time to check!

[Protegimus 0]

...

Taming the "sniper AK's" would just, I believe, remove the one insanely annoying aspect of ArmA2 AI (aside from their nasty habit of shooting through trees and bushes at times, but that's for another mod to solve probably).

...

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

The whole premise of Zeus is making infantry combat what it should be in ArmA 2, so I take all feedback on board.

Release 1.02.05 did see a very small increase in AI accuracy (precision). This was deliberate because on Zeus gaming nights with decent numbers (20-30) of human players in coop versus AI, we found we could overwhelm the AI with organised section attacks just a tad too easily with the 1.02.04 level of precision.

Although Zeus AI infantry will happily engage at 500m, it is area suppression.

The chance of you receiving a wound is realistically low and you'd have to be pretty unlucky for anything more serious. If you're up against a mounted MG or armour, you're gonna have more of a problem, but this is as it should be.

A pretty extreme example is demonstrated in the video on the first page. In Castle Defence I was happily dodging bullets behind the battlements for nearly 10mins, until the suppression was focussed on us at which point I couldn't even get a bead to get a shot off!

wrt to bushes and trees, the AI are pretty good at using them for concealed firing points, looks like the fir trees could do with some work on the view block.

If you can confirm the server profile is configured as recommended plus server ArmA 2 version and can give some example of scenarios where you think AK snipers may have bitten, please let me know and I'll certainly take another look. If you've got a mission even better.

Check out this insanity, we were pinned on the beach, boss ordered us to deploy smoke and charge!

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Dictionary Attack: (warning: language filter off!)

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Protegimus

Edited December 7, 2009 by Protegimus
Added tactical marvel video

[miles teg 1]

The whole premise of Zeus is making infantry combat what it should be in ArmA 2, so I take all feedback on board.

Release 1.02.05 did see a very small increase in AI accuracy (precision). This was deliberate because on Zeus gaming nights with decent numbers (20-30) of human players in coop versus AI, we found we could overwhelm the AI with organised section attacks just a tad too easily with the 1.02.04 level of precision.

Although Zeus AI infantry will happily engage at 500m, it is area suppression.

The chance of you receiving a wound is realistically low and you'd have to be pretty unlucky for anything more serious. If you're up against a mounted MG or armour, you're gonna have more of a problem, but this is as it should be.

A pretty extreme example is demonstrated in the video on the first page. In Castle Defence I was happily dodging bullets behind the battlements for nearly 10mins, until the suppression was focussed on us at which point I couldn't even get a bead to get a shot off!

wrt to bushes and trees, the AI are pretty good at using them for concealed firing points, looks like the fir trees could do with some work on the view block.

If you can confirm the server profile is configured as recommended plus server ArmA 2 version and can give some example of scenarios where you think AK snipers may have bitten, please let me know and I'll certainly take another look. If you've got a mission even better.

Protegimus

No offense Protegimus, but your example videos were all CQB scenarios and in the last showed a complete loss of tactical discipline with the human squad. Neither show the issue of long range "AK sniper fire. If you increased the already insanely accurate BI average assault rifle accuracy, then sadly it will be a great disappointment. Even with normal stock BI AI accuracy on veteran mode, I get shot at 500 meters with AK's. I don't plan on spendng hours on trying to make videos to prove that because you are right, it doesn't happen all the time, but it happens way more often then is realistic. You will hear the same story from countless players.

At any rate, it's up to you whether you want to accept that input. If not, that's fine. I will be happy with just ACE2 if it's up to ACE1 standards at least. No biggie. I just feel that it will be a rather sad note on what could have been the ULTIMATE AI realism mod as you are so damn close.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

The Lost Brothers Mod Team Leader

Edited December 7, 2009 by Miles Teg