RKSL Studios - WIP Discussion

[konyo 14]

Yeah was really looking forward to the seaking. The rescue one gave me hundreds of ideas for some missions :p

Yeh that was my 1st thought too when i saw those pictures. I guess someone will just have to re-texture the FFAA's seaking? :/

[rksl-rock 1301]

Yeah was really looking forward to the seaking. The rescue one gave me hundreds of ideas for some missions :p

If you didn't like that. You'll hate this:

Because of the public release of this tool im forced to remake any model that has any comercial base, ties or derivatives. Those affected include:

• Tornado GR4 and F3
  
• Harrier
  
• F-35B
  
• Hawk T1 / 60 series
  
• Hawk T2 / 100 series
  
• Nimrod MR2 and MR4
  
• C-130
  
• C-17
  
• A400M (gen 1)
  
• Chinook HC2
  
• Chinook HC3
  
• Chinook HC4
  
• Lynx AH7. AH9. AH9A HMA8, HAS3
  
• WAH1 Apache
  
• SU-24D
  
• Mig-21
  
• Mig-23
  
• Mig-29
  
• Yak-141
  
• IL-76 and A50
  
• Mi-171 and 172
  
• F-16
  
• Mirage 2000
  
• Puma HC1
  
• AS332
  
• AS532
  
• IA330 SOCAT
  
• ATR-42
  
• Saab 2000 AEW&C
  
• Seaking
  

Everyone say a big "thank you" to the guy that made the tool. Expect delays kids. Long ones.

And before someone asks "are you really going to remake all of them?". The answer is I doubt it.

Edited August 6, 2010 by RKSL-Rock

[DaSquade 0]

*Supports Rock in his verdict.

For those that don't understand why the fuss...Please put yourself in the place of a paying customer of Rocks service. If you still don't understand it you are missing the point of what this community used to stand for (at least some that put all their heart, soll and time into their work...for free).

If you want to use or modify my work ask first. Its simple really

Addons makers don’t get cash they get credit! Support them!

[Tankbuster 1746]

*Supports Rock in his verdict.

For those that don't understand why the fuss...Please put yourself in the place of a paying customer of Rocks service. If you still don't understand it you are missing the point of what this community used to stand for (at least some that put all their heart, soll and time into their work...for free).

Exactly. As I understand it, these tools enable people to contravene the BIS EULA, so I hope we'll hear something sensible from BIS soon.

[dkraver 1]

If you didn't like that. You'll hate this:

Because of the public release of this tool im forced to remake any model that has any comercial base, ties or derivatives. Those affected include:

• Tornado GR4 and F3
  
• Harrier
  
• F-35B
  
• Hawk T1 / 60 series
  
• Hawk T2 / 100 series
  
• Nimrod MR2 and MR4
  
• C-130
  
• C-17
  
• A400M (gen 1)
  
• Chinook HC2
  
• Chinook HC3
  
• Chinook HC4
  
• Lynx AH7. AH9. AH9A HMA8, HAS3
  
• WAH1 Apache
  
• SU-24D
  
• Mig-21
  
• Mig-23
  
• Mig-29
  
• Yak-141
  
• IL-76 and A50
  
• Mi-171 and 172
  
• F-16
  
• Mirage 2000
  
• Puma HC1
  
• AS332
  
• AS532
  
• IA330 SOCAT
  
• ATR-42
  
• Saab 2000 AEW&C
  

Everyone say a big "thank you" to the guy that made the tool. Expect delays kids. Long ones.

And before someone asks "are you really going to remake all of them?". The answer is I doubt it.

Damn thats sad :( Was looking forward to all the updates.

On a side note one very small "positive" thing comes from this. You dont have to look at a bunch of different models an have the problem about which one you want to use time on. Now you can start on one model and only think about that since there isnt any other models to think about :p

[rksl-rock 1301]

Damn thats sad :( Was looking forward to all the updates.

On a side note one very small "positive" thing comes from this. You dont have to look at a bunch of different models an have the problem about which one you want to use time on. Now you can start on one model and only think about that since there isnt any other models to think about :p

There is no "positive thing" to this. Basically I've wasted 2 years on these projects.

And what makes you think there will be more models? Why should we make anything new?

[kremator 1065]

So the fact that this software has been released (haven't a clue what it is BTW) means that you have wasted 2 years of your life? I respect what you have given to the community and your commitment to quality but I do think this statement is a little melodramatic. The reason that you continue is because a model made by RKSL studios is looked on as ultimate quality. If you suspect that someone has ripped your MLODs then you will have evidence that can be presented on the forums and the copier excommunicated!

There is a phrase ..... Don't cut off your nose to spite your face!

There will be positives .......we just don't know what they are yet!

Kind regards

[Tankbuster 1746]

I think what Rock is saying is;

He earns his living from making models for commercial and military and governmental clients. It's in the contract with these people that he can use the same model he sells to them for non profit stuff.

So, if software that allows others to rip off the nonprofit version (ie the gear we use) and sell it, which has happened, then Rock is in a whole world of legal and contractual hurt. So, he has to remake all of those from scratch, just for us.

[dkraver 1]

There is no "positive thing" to this. Basically I've wasted 2 years on these projects.

Sorry was just trying to shine a light some where in the darkness :(

And what makes you think there will be more models? Why should we make anything new?

Was just hopeing that you love for the game and your drive for quality will make you keep going past yet another obstucle :(

Anyways hope BIS will figure out a new way to secure the addons people are making.

[rksl-rock 1301]

So the fact that this software has been released (haven't a clue what it is BTW) means that you have wasted 2 years of your life? I respect what you have given to the community and your commitment to quality but I do think this statement is a little melodramatic. The reason that you continue is because a model made by RKSL studios is looked on as ultimate quality. If you suspect that someone has ripped your MLODs then you will have evidence that can be presented on the forums and the copier excommunicated!

There is a phrase ..... Don't cut off your nose to spite your face!

There will be positives .......we just don't know what they are yet!

Kind regards

Well I've been through this before in ArmA1 when Frandsen aka RavenDK aka Cougar started passing out MLODs of our models to all and sundry. Those same models then appeared on several 3D market sites. The knock on of which was that I got a load of legal shite which cost me quite a bit in lawyers fees. Then along comes ArmA2 with a new P3D format which was impervious to the ArmA1 MLOD tools. So we were "safe" again...Now we face the same shit again... (predictable i know but after the last time i thought people would be more grown up about it)

The tool is made by T_D and de-binarises all ODOL models. Basically makes all model s easily editable. Which breaks the BIS EULA. And as recent events have shown enables people to sell models on Turbosquid and other sites.

But due to the fact that RKSL is pretty much run as a "charity" offshoot of my commercial work. And most of the models I had planned to use are "derived" from that commercial work. I'm in a very difficult position due to the contractual terms those models were sold under. Basically while I can use them in a "non-commercial" way I cannot distribute or allow those models to be published or distributed in an editable format. Or a format that I know can be made easily editable.

So, given that I've spent 2 + years developing "ultimate quality" (thank you for the compliment) addons and now due to this "EULA busting" tool I can't use a single model I planned to. I think I'm entitled to be pissed and a little melodrama.

And the thing is I'm not alone. Quite a few people in this community now sell models to various companies and agencies. I know a few other groups that are just as concerned (for varying reasons) about the impact of this tool.

So I have a choice, make new models or pack it in and move on. I haven't decided either way just yet. But since I spent quite a few pages of this thread telling people what was supposed to be coming soon. I thought I better post and explain that I wont be releasing the content as promised.

While you may think I'm "cutting my nose off to spite my face". In reality I'm protecting my own ass from potential legal action at the cost of my free time and the work I do for this community for "free".

Edited August 6, 2010 by RKSL-Rock

[Schancky 10]

So if BIS were to stop this tool, would it change anything, or would the problem still exist?

[rksl-rock 1301]

So if BIS were to stop this tool, would it change anything, or would the problem still exist?

The genie is out of the bottle. What can they do now?

For the record I love making addons. A huge part of the fun, is reading that people are using them and above all enjoying them. But a small few will always abuse our work.

Lets face it history has proved time and time again that there are "bad" people in this community that will always steal anything they can at any time. Everyone knows it but we still make and publish addons. But not everyone is exposed to the risk i am now facing so as much as I appreciate everyones support it wont change the position i am in.

Regardless of what happens next i cannot publish the listed addons without exposing myself to possible legal issues.

[kremator 1065]

I totally understand your position. Legal issues are indeed tricky. I was just annoyed that it seemed you were taking it out on us (the community) for this new tool.

I'm grateful for everything I get on these forums and can only hope that there is a suitable solution. We do respect what you and other model makers do and hope that it will be able to continue.

[Defunkt 431]

The genie is out of the bottle. What can they do now?

Revise the ODOL encryption, update ArmA and tools accordingly.

[cannonouscrash 12]

I feel sorry for you rock. To have some person come along and undo what you spent 2 years doing must be like being kicked in the teeth and then then nuts all at the same time.

This is a gaming community and if it wasnt for the what brings the wonga into your house then perhaps we wouldnt know of RKSL. Begrudingly i have to agree that your commerical 'arm' is more important than the non commercial.

Im just gonna cry because ill never see a Tornado in Arma :-(

(and yes im to lazy/thick to create one myself)

[Takko 10]

Revise the ODOL encryption, update ArmA and tools accordingly.

Is it BIS fault that this tool was released? No, so they do not have to even attempt

switching the ODOL encryption for released games which would surely make a big effort.

[Defunkt 431]

Is it BIS fault that this tool was released? No, so they do not have to even attempt

switching the ODOL encryption for released games which would surely make a big effort.

Not saying what they should or will do, only what they could do.

[rexehuk 16]

Sad to hear Rock, does this mean current releases like the typhoon will be pulled?

I wish you luck in any legal action you pursue, hopefully something falls into place that resolves this a bit easier.

[Daniel 0]

Well that sucks, the Eurofighter and Merlin had me really looking forward to the rest. :(

Sorry to hear this, I hope BIS considers looking at the options.

[hellfire257 3]

The person behind this should be hung, drawn, and quatered, and then shot, and then shot again by a Challenger's main gun just to make sure. I will have to drown a kitten. You have been warned.

Angry!

Edited August 6, 2010 by Hellfire257

[PuFu 4600]

So if BIS were to stop this tool, would it change anything, or would the problem still exist?

All they can actually do is kill all the links to the existing tool on those forums. Nothing more nothing less, especially since the tool was designed to serve a different purpose altogether(i am assuming T_D had nothing of this sort in mind when he created it), and is not breaking any EULA (AFAIK) as long as no content that has been reversed-engineered is published.

Now, while the tool (which i have tried myself) is not gonna keep all the MLOD properties (missing points, inverted faces etc), and a lot of aditional work would be needed to get it in the game, it will give you the base model, which is sufficient to be able export to 3rd party software, and then sell it or what not.

I support and understand rock's decission 100%, especially since he is earning a leaving out of those models.

Even if he wasn't, very few ppl who haven't create a 3d box by themselves will understand the amount of work that is needed for creating a model, texturing it and configing it.

If i were to see any of my models lined up on a website such as turbosquid for sale, i would be rather pissed for someone else getting the credit and money for some work he has never done, even if those models were not part of a commercial contract i had..

I am not sure what is BIS stance here, but this is a delicate matter either way.

[dkraver 1]

I vote for BIS to hire Rock/UNN to make a RKSL DLC so his rights wont be hurt in anyways ;)

Joke aside i trully hope that BIS takes this problem serious and finds a solution. An idea could be to update the tools with a personal encryption part so people can give their addons a personal password/encryption so a single tool wont as easy as to just open a format.

I can understand and respect the problems Rock and others have vs the legal problems with released stuff and if they have to stop releasing addons because of it, thats the thing they have to do. Even though i will cry about everything not released. :(

[[frl]myke 14]

Joke aside i trully hope that BIS takes this problem serious and finds a solution. An idea could be to update the tools with a personal encryption part so people can give their addons a personal password/encryption so a single tool wont as easy as to just open a format.

Basically a good idea but, how would the game engine handle this? I thought of extending the already existing bikey/bisign method but since i'm no programmer nor cryptographic specialist i don't know if this would be possible at all.

[dkraver 1]

Myke;1709475']Basically a good idea but' date=' how would the game engine handle this? I thought of extending the already existing bikey/bisign method but since i'm no programmer nor cryptographic specialist i don't know if this would be possible at all.[/quote']

Im not a programmer aswell so i dont know if its possible. I dont know if its possible to just encrypt the part when you wanna open the file but still have the game read the files. Without knowing a lot about it a thing like winrar files can be password protected to open but the program stil recognizes it as a winrar file :confused:

[PuFu 4600]

Maybe the same way puttygen can create a SSH RSA key file. It randomly generates it, based on your mouse movement over a area of your screen, and on top, you can assigned a pass to your private key...

But then again, i doubt that will happen