ArmA II: Operation Arrowhead discussion thread

[sniper pilot 36]

LOL I for one don't see my self as complaining, I see it as voicing what I would like to get out of this engine. And of course we'd be able to use A2 content as W0lle said, I just was wishing we would see the FLIR implemented completely with A2's content, but I'm sure if not, we will have some talented modders who will rise to the task.

Don't get me wrong I'm buying OA even if it just was a addon pack (but don't tell Bis that!)

[p75 10]

Now it is mentioned, together with this:

That means that in worst case you can use the ArmA2 Vehicles but they have no proper FLIR working because they are not prepared for it.

If we like it or not, this is how it is. As said before, with a little bit of thinking this shouldn't be surprising after all. I for myself expected that.

Wolle,

Could you then check with BIS if they will be soo kind enough to release tools for the community to do that....? For the vanilla Arma 2 models and addons.....

I ask because I think alot of people will be very judgemental and angry about the fact that they can use Arma 2 vehicles, but not the new features which OA will bring within OA. That brings a whole new meaning to the usability of the Arma 2 pack for OA. And is therefor not compatible as stated earlier by Jenkins.

There should be some middle road, I'd understand that there are time constraints, but leaving it totally out would make the vehicles models of Arma 2 kinda useless within OA.

For example, if the player could see the Apache with FLIR properties, but the MI-24 not while in the same airspace.....that would shatter the immersion factor dramatically....if you get my drift........

Tools would be that middle way if BIS is lacking resources, timewise...........

Edited August 25, 2009 by p75

[bogdanm 0]

I can’t say I wasn’t expecting this, BI’s unpaid guard dogs are always on duty. Too bad that they can’t distinguish friend from foe… And just to clear up some things, BIS still has my full support, just like I showed many times before here and on other websites, but I will always say what's on my mind.

EDIT: p75, you said exactly what I ment but you made it sound a lot better. Next time I'll choose my words more carefully and bring some steak to bribe the dogs. ;)

Edited August 25, 2009 by BogdanM

[p75 10]

I can’t say I wasn’t expecting this, BI’s unpaid guard dogs are always on duty. Too bad that they can’t distinguish friend from foe… And just to clear up some things, BIS still has my full support, just like I showed many times before here and on other websites, but I will always say what's on my mind.

I agree with you, though. There should be a middleroad as I just posted above. Let us see what Wolle will come up with. If the time constraints prevent them from doing the work, a set of tools which will allow the community to do it is the least they can offer........Although, not as fancy as out of the box.......it will be sufficient for most people. If that doesn't happen, I guess alot of people who bought Arma 2 feel left in the cold.......and that could be really bad for BIS business wise. As people might turn to things out of the legal border, because they feel cheated. Sad, but a reality nowadays. And won't be willing to pay for the next product. I trust BIS to take the right decision here....

The initial Q&A gave the impression that the Arma 2 customers didn't throw away their money because it would be integrated within OAs spectrum.........and provide additional real estate, which pure OA customer wouldn't be able to access.

See my example two threads earlier for a sketch if that wouldn't be the case........

Just wait on Wolle and BIS to reply

Edited August 25, 2009 by p75

[Simon C 0]

I don't see the problem to be honest. We get the ArmA II vehicles in OA, and FLIR can be added to them. Look how fast people added the current ArmA II FLIR to vehicles. I'm sure with a bit of work, all these new features can be added. I say bravo to BIS for actually making the ArmA II vehicles usable in OA, very nice indeed. :)

[kremator 1065]

Grrrrrr WOOF WOOF !

[p75 10]

I don't see the problem to be honest. We get the ArmA II vehicles in OA, and FLIR can be added to them. Look how fast people added the current ArmA II FLIR to vehicles. I'm sure with a bit of work, all these new features can be added. I say bravo to BIS for actually making the ArmA II vehicles usable in OA, very nice indeed. :)

We don't have FLIR in Arma 2 now!!! And I don't think (no offence intended) that you understand the technique which is used to add the FLIR feature as intended for OA. It won't be a problem if BIS will release a tool to the community, but....that is not sure as of yet and up to Wolle/BIS to confirm.....If such a tool won't be released.....then it could turn ugly as alot of people will be very pissed off....

Edited August 25, 2009 by p75

[DanL2mx 10]

The more I read about OA the more I want to have it already installed in my computer. I'll be buying this one for sure.

But yeah, BIS should take all the time they need to polish the expansion before releasing it.

That means that in worst case you can use the ArmA2 Vehicles but they have no proper FLIR working because they are not prepared for it.

If we like it or not, this is how it is. As said before, with a little bit of thinking this shouldn't be surprising after all. I for myself expected that.

Yeah, that is highly likely to be the case. However...

The FLIR/lasers/flashlights from Operation Arrowhead, will they be included also in ArmA II or are they only available in Operation Arrowhead?

BIS: No, this would be a too serious change in the engine which could also break the content of ArmA II.

As I understand it, the vanilla ArmA II will not have working FLIR, AN/PEQ-2s, etc. because of the engine, but the expansion pack will have a revamped version of the engine, so it is entirely possible to have the vanilla units with FLIR if you have Arma II + Operation Arrowhead.

IMO if by installing OA BIS could somehow update the original game's files (adding the necessary textures and bump maps required to have working FLIR) then most of the guys that feel outraged or unsatisfied would stop complaining, not to mention that it might improve the sales a lot, as almost everyone that bought the original game would be rushing to get the expansion.

Although I realize that it is not as simple or easy as it seems.

[TimRiceSE 10]

We don't have FLIR in Arma 2 now!!! And I don't think (no offence intended) that you understand the technique which is used to add the FLIR feature as intended for OA. It won't be a problem if BIS will release a tool to the community, but....that is not sure as of yet and up to Wolle/BIS to confirm.....If such a tool won't be released.....then it could turn ugly as alot of people will be very pissed off....

Please, enlighten us on the technique that will be used.

[Simon C 0]

We don't have FLIR in Arma 2 now!!! And I don't think (no offence intended) that you understand the technique which is used to add the FLIR feature as intended for OA.

We don't have FLIR now? So what's that effect I can see when I use a UAV? Granted, it's not real FLIR, but it's pretty good. And no, I probably don't understand it, but I'm sure many of the community's talented modders will do when they get their hands on it.

[dm 9]

Could you then check with BIS if they will be soo kind enough to release tools for the community to do that....? For the vanilla Arma 2 models and addons.....

Theres no tools needed. Its not some magical "make it TI" button in O2. The thermal system - as it works in VBS2 - uses a seperate texture stage in the rvmat (same idea as SMDI or NOHQ) which needs to be baked into the model at packing time (by binarize).

For example, if the player could see the Apache with FLIR properties, but the MI-24 not while in the same airspace

Something that has TI will show up with the proper TI, something that does not will show up white. Thats how it works in VBS2.

Tools would be that middle way if BIS is lacking resources, timewise...........

Its not about tools, time or resources. Its about creating a whole new set of textures for ALL the content, and then distributing those textures AND models. Something that runs to about 6 or 7 GB of data.

no offence intended that you understand the technique which is used to add the FLIR feature as intended for OA.

No offence, but you have absolutely NO idea of what you're talking about either. So might be a good idea to shut up too. ;)

[p75 10]

We don't have FLIR now? So what's that effect I can see when I use a UAV? Granted, it's not real FLIR, but it's pretty good. And no, I probably don't understand it, but I'm sure many of the community's talented modders will do when they get their hands on it.

It is no real FLIR and it ain't good either....Try it on Cheranus and see if you can detect any vehicle on the ground from a somewhat distance....you can't.......

---------- Post added at 06:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------

Theres no tools needed. Its not some magical "make it TI" button in O2. The thermal system - as it works in VBS2 - uses a seperate texture stage in the rvmat (same idea as SMDI or NOHQ) which needs to be baked into the model at packing time (by binarize).

Something that has TI will show up with the proper TI, something that does not will show up white. Thats how it works in VBS2.

Its not about tools, time or resources. Its about creating a whole new set of textures for ALL the content, and then distributing those textures AND models. Something that runs to about 6 or 7 GB of data.

No offence, but you have absolutely NO idea of what you're talking about either. So might be a good idea to shut up too. ;)

LOL........thank you for the heads up, charming as ever :) Well, then they can help with how to do that, specifying the parameters :) Assisting the community :)

PS: that is a time related issue for BIS as stated earlier.

Edited August 25, 2009 by p75

[Sennacherib 0]

Arma2 has the same engine than VBS2. VBS2 has FLIR stuff, not Arma? now BIS are creating an expansion with FLIR. I suppose that they still use the VBS2 engine. so why? Arma2 has no FLIR.

they would been able to implement FLIR, in Arma2.

the new commercial strategy is :

fewer sales of VBS2 and Arma2, ok we can create an expansion with the content of VBS2 to counter OFP: dragon rising (it has FLIR + active flashlights)?

sorry but, more I read, more I have questions. I have the feeling that the customers are considered as idiots :(

[W0lle 1050]

Arma2 has the same engine than VBS2. VBS2 has FLIR stuff, not Arma? now BIS are creating an expansion with FLIR. I suppose that they still use the VBS2 engine. so why? Arma2 has no FLIR.

they would been able to implement FLIR, in Arma2.

the new commercial strategy is :

fewer sales of VBS2 and Arma2, ok we can create an expansion with the content of VBS2 to counter OFP: dragon rising (it has FLIR + active flashlights)?

sorry but, more I read, more I have questions. I have the feeling that the customers are considered as idiots :(

OMG, not this again... please. Yes indeed the ArmA2 customers are considered idiots because there was no FLIR in ArmA2 while it is in VBS2. And the VBS2 customers are considered idiots too because they have no working flashlights while OA has. We are all considered idiots ZOMG :confused:

But yes you are correct, they could have implemented FLIR in ArmA2 but they have not. But I highly doubt that VBS2 sales have anything to do with that. BIS (or BIA) developed that FLIR in VBS2 and they decide when they make it available to the general public, simple as that.

Enough with that crap now, we had that countless times in the past and I'm tired of reading it now.

[Bush 0]

Arma2 has the same engine than VBS2.

No that is not correct. ArmA1 has the same "engine" as VBS2.

OFP, VBS1 = Real virtuality 1

ArmA, VBS2 = Real virtuality 2

ArmA2 = Real virtuality 3

Source: http://www.arma2.com/supply/presskit/file/20-realvirtualityengine-gc2008.html?lang=en

[flyfinn 0]

Scratch One..

I'm buying OA

Over and out

[walker 0]

Hi all

Any news on the official OA release date yet?

Late September early October would seem a good release schedule. With the US release say the Tuesday of the first full week in October followed a couple of days later by the rest of the world.

Kind Regards walker

[Bush 0]

Hi all

Any news on the official OA release date yet?

Late September early October would seem a good release schedule. With the US release say the Tuesday of the first full week in October followed a couple of days later by the rest of the world.

Kind Regards walker

Here:

When is the release date?

BIS: Not before 2010. The exact date is not yet decided.

[lwlooz 0]

Hello,

I am generally startled by BIS design/communication process on this.

When I first heard of this I thought that this was going to be a brilliant opportunity to buy a major patch from BIS in order for them to pack it with new features and new content.

Now why one can't just make a simple Expansion where you install something and drop the new OA.exe and the new OA-data in your Arma2 folder , just like we did with Resistance , is beyond me , but I generally don't know much I suppose.

That would prevent like all technical support problems,community splits and whatnot as everyone would be on the same build with the same data , no?

Then I am being told that BIS doesn't even have the manpower capability to change the data of the old ArmA2 content nor provide a automatic generic FLIR method for backwards compability.

But what really baffles me completely why BIS always talks of this like its a completely new game when all we are going to get is a slightly updated version of this very engine with new content. It makes no sense?

Having 2 "branches" of the same game with people having various amounts of shared content is going be a technical nightmare , not the other way around I would assume.

If Operation:Arrowhead even gets its own seperate folder on the hdd , I will lose all hope in humanity.

Or to put in short: Don't make a bloody half-arsed expansion/half-arsed datadisk that is neither of the two. Please.

[echo1 0]

In case you weren't around for Resistance during it's prime - mod makers used to have to make two versions of each addon they made - one for original OFP, and one for Resistance. Sure they may not have been in seperate folders or whatever, but they were two very different beasts. Yet the community didnt exactly implode or anything...

[dxfan01 10]

Here:When is the release date?

BIS: Not before 2010. The exact date is not yet decided.

I'm Crying :icon_sad:

[4 IN 1 0]

In case you weren't around for Resistance during it's prime - mod makers used to have to make two versions of each addon they made - one for original OFP, and one for Resistance. Sure they may not have been in seperate folders or whatever, but they were two very different beasts. Yet the community didnt exactly implode or anything...

If i remember correctly that changed quite fast from making two for both into making only one for ofp:r as many player by then have ofp:r or stop playing, talking about 1 year of time or less

[kozzy420 21]

Cant wait for this Operation Arrowhead. The info on it sounds great and that one video I saw a few days ago got me really excited :D

The setting for it looks like alot of fun :D

[jonneymendoza 10]

No, there won't be.

that sucks. why not? why cant this engine have fully destructible environments? engine cant handle it?

[sick1 13]

I wish Bis had more staff and backing power. They could make a monster of a game better. However if this game was released say by some modders out there charging a PayPal fee I would still buy it because there is nothing like it out there. I still dont know how they can find the time to make an expansion when there is still so much work that could be done to A2.