Movement is so sluggish in all BIS games, WHY?

[Dreepa 10]

Edit:

The title should better have been: "Why is movement in BIS games so choppy while aiming down your scope when making small adjustments to your view by tapping 'a' and 'd'.

Hi

my suggestion to make Arma2 more appealling for a wider range of players and less clumsy to play in general:

Get rid of animation bound movement.

If feels weird and hurts the gameplay experience in many situations where you need exact control over your camera and target reticule.

A human naturally controls his body and is not bound to "bopping" or "choppy" movement like we are presented in all BIS games. Since OFP I am wondering why you went with this movement model.

It is really just

-not fluent

-annoying when you adjust your position just slightly

-frustrating in buildings and around obstacles like tress where you tap 'a' and 'd' alot to get into the right position

-feeling like an artificial restriction

I know Arma 2 is aiming at sim people (and I like it, I come from all the Jane's Games and also worked on a game called "Soldner" which was fairly realistic) but getting rid of that sluggish movement doesnt contradict realism. In fact it is not realistic to limit movement to animation sequences as you will never be able to animate a character like it would move in real life and thus will never be able to create an authentic feel of movement while binding it to the animation.

Thanks for reading.

Edit:

My suggestion would be: Add a new key, like SHIFT does for walk, that makes the soldier go really slow while putting all effort into maintaining a stable view down the ironsight. That key would probably be CTRL, just becauses its handy.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Dreepa
Clarifying the whole thing.

[DrGonzo 10]

Seconded.

I'd like to think that the problems with the wooden movement would be resolved in Arma 2, though maybe they won't.

One of the many things that annoyed me about the first Arma was the fact that the movement was too slow. It's made worse by the fact that in a game like Arma or Flashpoint a single hit can kill you, so you really need to be able to move quickly.

Although I thought Flashpoint was relatively wooden, it was less so than Arma. In Arma it takes too long to switch between crouching and standing, the aiming itself feels quite sluggish and rigid too and it's annoying that the character stops running whenever you run over the slightest elevation or bump in the terrain. I think that the original Flashpoint is relatively free from these flaws. But to be fair to Arma, the clipping in it is a vast improvement to that of Flashpoint.

Maybe they'll iron out the flaws and maybe they won't. I'll just have to get Arma 2 to find out.

[Nicholas 5]

If feels weird and hurts the gameplay experience in many situations where you need exact control over your camera and target reticule.

I have a TrackIR 4 PRO, and I have exact control the camera with my head and exact controll over the target reticule with my mouse. For the people that don't have a TrackIR, they press the Alt key to look around. How else are they supposed to do it?

In ArmA 2, you can crouch/stand while your running, so it's pretty quick. There is even a new "Running WHile Crouched" mode. It definatly feels more smooth in ArmA 2 than anything else. I like the current movement controlls. in GTA IV, you run one direction the nquickly start running in another, it took too long for Niko to switch directions(Altough it was smooth), i wouldn't like something like that in ArmA. And i guess I don't get what you mean by "Sluggish" you have an example? Thanks. Also if they did implement a real physics engine, the game probably wouldn't have been out for another year or so, because they'd literally have to rewrite a LOT of code.

[11aTony 0]

First of all. Can you imagine CoD movment in ArmA? This wouldnt be fast at all. In those kind of games it just feels that you are moving fast becouse maps are so small but in fact you move extremly slowly. For instance, CoD5, map downfall or seelow. Quite big maps. It takes ages to run from one side to another. In arma it doesnt take so long to run 200m or so. You are not so bored while running that distance either unlike in other game where you are like "c'mon can this go any slower, lets go already". Character gets tired very soon too. Then thre is Crysis movment. Pretty nice mix of industrial movment and arma movment but probably too slow for arma too. They mode for it in crysis with different modes like in armour mode you go very slow (CQB) and speed mode for distances. Since we dont have star trek in arma this in a no go.

Yeah, movment was a bit "wooden" in A1 before 1.14 but I simply love it in A2. It is best movment I have ever seen. Well suited for CQB and running long distances. Very smooth. I like it how they mixed A1 movment with GRAW2 movment. All they need to fix is going over wider objects like gas pipes, some fences. And motorbikes should be able to go over 10cm high obsticles with less problems. Sometimes you cant drive over them slowly.

Edited June 4, 2009 by 11aTony

[thomas82 10]

I'm absolutely with u!

in the original ofp many people played CTF / C&H / CQB-maps / DM ..

OFP was nice for CTF's! That changed with ARMA1, and thats why u see only koop / cti players left in the servers.. :-)

with ARMA2 it looks better.. some things needs to be fixed:

- the movement-bug (see ctf-people thread in suggestions section)

- better performance (to make the aiming / moving more fluent)

- FSAA against "pixel-war" => should be easier to spot enemies then

- graphics bugs like flickering textures (all the things that people allready described)

in the current version u can play ARMA2 only over big distances (big maps)

for me its a must to make it enjoyable on small maps aswell.

While other people want more and more animations - we want the controls to be more easy, faster reaction, all for a better gameplay

I hope BIS will satisfy us aswell in this question

Edited June 4, 2009 by thomas82

[max power 21]

Responding to the first post, if not like this, certainly not like OFP2. The reason why I'm a fan of this series is because it is not an industry standard shooter. I find the movement in this game more realistic than any other egoshooter, and I do think that moving more towards the industry standard would comprimise the simulator aspect.

Also, what kind of frame rates do you get? I found ArmA to feel pretty heavy until I upgraded my rig. Now it feels quite smooth.

[afp 1]

I very much agree with Dreepa, you dont get dizzy while running or walking on the street, why the need for this in a game. Just try to move the head up and down while walking to get in real the same effect as in ArmA...

This is just a part where the "realism" has been pushed too far.

Edited June 4, 2009 by afp

[Alex72 1]

I hear only that the ARMA2 movement is fantastic. They have good pc's though. Maybe its time to upgrade or for BIS to try and get some performance back to lower end PC's like they did in 1.09 with vegetation.

Cant really complain over movement being bad when your hardware is to blaim.

Alex

[dvolk 10]

I love the movement in OFP/ArmA. It's a big part of the magic of the series.

I was very concerned that they would change it in ArmA 2 to appeal to FPS players but really it's the good old ArmA movement, the only thing that has changed as far as I can see is that you can move while reloading.

[DaveP 66]

The Arma 2 Movement system is definitely one of the game's raison d'êtres, but for the fact that the V key only lets you vault small fences (I assume since it can't disseminate height you can't have a climb over function as well)

[zenith777 0]

I actually love the movement of ArmA 2. Makes you feel like you are actually carrying combat equipment. And you can control the movement very easily after a bit of training. The fact that the game has no industrial movement makes the game feel unique and not like other FPS shooters. I don't want the CQB to turn into CoD4.

[sidhellfire 0]

Oh noes, the Call of Duty kids strikes back!

Listen up. It's a soldier game, not another batman-like-war-superheroes. Don't need another fast paced abstract shooting game.

[thomas82 10]

..COD4? ... :-)

it should be possible to make ARMA2 enjoyable for CQB & CTI!

well.. it worked with ofp.. ;-)

[thefoolio888 10]

My understanding is that the movement of your character mirrors the movement in real life. The fact that there are stages to movement means that you have to think before, and during your movement.

If you were carrying a rifle in real life you wouldnn't start firing mid-step. You would finish the stride, steady yourself and then fire. This is what the staged movement represents. It is the fact that you don't glide around map and can act regardless of what phase of movement you are currently in, is one of the things that makes Arma what it is.

[Creation 10]

Looking at the game vidoes the character does look a little speeded up, which is a good thing, and i agree changing from crouch to stand takes way too long, and so does strafing sideways holding AT i mean sure you need to brace yourself, but its just a bit tedious slowly inching out of a corner.

[Scrub 0]

The agility of the character is greatly improved over Arma. I think many of these users only use the jog or sprint mode, try walking. Your head won't bob, your accuracy will be better. I don't see any vids from Iraq where someone jogs and fires. They run to cover, peek, walk and slice a room. Arma 2 does this all very well and reflexively. Maybe just need more time. I agree with those who say 'much faster and it'll be COD or OFP:DR'.

No, you cannot take on 3-4 entrenched people alone, good luck with 1 that knows you're there, that is what teamwork is for.

The 'staged' animations are: Switching weapons (will be very glad to see this one go), medic aid, fence hopping.. That's all I'm aware of.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Scrub

[thomas82 10]

i recorded the movement bug where the gun goes to "safe-mode" ..

thats a gameplay destroyer on CQB maps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOiFe3RY_OI

[Dwarden 1125]

i recorded the movement bug where the gun goes to "safe-mode" ..

thats a gameplay destroyer on CQB maps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOiFe3RY_OI

interesting

[OverDawg 10]

If you ever had any military training you'll know that moving around with combat equipment is something else. You are nowhere near as mobile. All movement takes effort and becomes slower. If the game simulates this then that isfine. That is however only valid for a classic infantry combat scenario. On the other hand, when doing CQB like clearing houses you wouldn't go for full combat equipment since it would hamper you too much. In this case mobility becomes more important. I guess Arma1 also failed at this as fighting in houses was a real pain and just no fun at all. It felt like you we're a giant in a tiny house while carrying a small pickup truck on your back.

[Sturmer 10]

I think OP is talking about how smoothly character moves around, not how fast.

I hated OFP 1 and ArmA only because bad movement. Everything was like operating some robot not living person.

And soldiers full combat gear is heavy, yes. and makes moving slow, but NOT robotic. Also stopping/sprinting should not be instant.

Going to prone should be fast but standing up slow.

[[aps]gnat 28]

-not appealing to gamers that are used to industry-standard shooters

naaaar, sorry .... the "industry" youre talking about is "cheap small-space Run-n-Gun simulators" with little regard for realworld physics.

OFP/ArmA1/ArmA2 was/is (and hopefully will remain) a whole different thing.

[thefoolio888 10]

Gnat;1297803']naaaar' date=' sorry .... the "industry" youre talking about is "cheap small-space Run-n-Gun [i']simulators[/i]" with little regard for realworld physics.

OFP/ArmA1/ArmA2 was/is (and hopefully will remain) a whole different thing.

Agree 100%

Arma2 is the only game which has stopped me giving up on games full stop. If they made it like every other FPS on the market they can keep it and my PC can go on eBay. I really wish some people would stop trying to turn games into other games that they like, just because something narks them.

Come on folks, enjoy the difference.

[twisted 128]

man, i find the movement in Arma2 really good, fluid.

[Dreepa 10]

Guys, while I respect everyone's opinion... please read more carefully!!

75% the posts here are missing the point.

My initial post was not about speed issues in movement, not about removing the "special feeling" etc.

Some of you read "standard shooter" and immediatelly go "zomfg, shooter kiddy go away"... in fact, that attitude is more showing who is the kiddy.

What the first post was about is "smoothness". I have to admit, "sluggish" was the wrong word.

We (as humand beings) can move small inches and smoothly/steadily aim while moving around a corner. We re no roboters. We are not artificially restricted.

In BIS games however, you are forced to tip the 'a' and 'd' keys while experiencing a weird bobbing and stumpy and clumsy feeling.

Slowly moving around the edge of a house is not feeling realistic. Slowly moving around a tree is not smooth.

In objection to what some people say, it is NOT realistic. Movement from the human perspective is fluid, its not a step by step experience.

Same goes for movement in buildings. When standing at a window and trying to find a good angle, its a usability nightmare.

Be it OFP, Arma or Arma2 (which I just bought)... you feel like a disabled person in so many situations.

To those that impute to me that I am a COD action player, be assured that I dont own 1 game of the series. In fact, it seems people nowadays just come on the boards to defame others without reading the whole posts. As I said, I come from similation games like the Jane's series and have spend countless days on military strategy games in my life.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Dreepa

[norsu 180]

We (as humand beings) can move small inches and smoothly/steadily aim while moving around a corner. We re no roboters. We are not artificially restricted.

In BIS games however, you are forced to tip the 'a' and 'd' keys while experiencing a weird bobbing and stumpy and clumsy feeling.

Slowly moving around the edge of a house is not feeling realistic. Slowly moving around a tree is not smooth.

In objection to what some people say, it is NOT realistic. Movement from the human perspective is fluid, its not a step by step experience.

Same goes for movement in buildings. When standing at a window and trying to find a good angle, its a usability nightmare.

I agree 100%. Body awareness is a good thing as long it isn't fully animation based like it is now. Especially the tapping while trying to get a good firing position in a tight spot is just frustrating. I haven't tried ArmA2 yet but hopefully movement doesn't feel as akward as it did in OFP or ArmA (which it doesn't seem to :)).