A.C.E. Advanced Combat Environment Mod 2

[D.Sloane 12]

i loved ace1 in arma1. im sure that ace2 in arma2 will be perfect. you guys great! keep us updated with progress please. i never played arma1 with ace1 online. im really excited for trying it on mp.

[markushaze 10]

Just my 2 c.

A big THANX to the devs of ACE 2 and ACE X.

Very impressive.

We as community should not take this for granted, and bitch around. Giving suggestions is fine, but do it with respect!

pleas stay respectful.

The devs of ACE are working on this in their free time, and so are sacrificing a part of their life FOR US. Of course they have fun doing it, but its still a lot of work.

man that's just great.

Pleas keep up the good work, ill be gladly waiting until its released, This is going to be fantastic, and includes all that i am missing on the Ultimate Military Simulation .

thanx Ace

[An Fiach 10]

IRL people do not black out because of running 50m nor do they blackout after running 10km. Its an overexagerated effect based on unrealistic fitness performance. IRL a soldiers fitness prior to going to war or any other type of deployment must be at a good level. The pschological aspects can be recreated in a game but its not done by this method. I used BHD as an example as that movie is based on a book which was a true story especially the end where the soldiers were running and being harrassed by the bad guys. Other things to consider are that all the character classes are of an unfit level especially the SF class. As an example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravo_Two_Zero

I don't see anyone blacking out in this video either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L9nzk3co-M&feature=related

Although the effect of fitness in Arma is good the best I think is OFP as that had a limit as to how far you could push yourself. Ideally I would agree on a limit based on where your breathing rate is increased which effects your aim. You could go as far as falling over but I don't think black outs should be modeled as it simply does not happen from the running itself nor is it because you are carrying heavy weight normally its because a person is dehydrated or has heat exhaustion which can be prevented by fluid intake.:cool:

Just remember the effect we are talking about here is not what was going through your mind when a tracer flew past you its about fitness. As I mentioned there are other ways to model such effects in a game but this is not one of them. Also for ACE modellers note the above video the M72 was carried in the top of the bergen and had to be removed from the pack to use. Also small items like bandages, morphine maps etc aren't carried in ammo pouches so shouldn't take up space in the webbing.

Heres what I was talking about from BHD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lODIwbJA7MY&feature=PlayList&p=CC31EFEC908DAEA8&index=14

I give you real world facts and experiences and you give me sticking your fingers in your ears 'lalalalala'. Wiki is not a reliable source but already as I said, you point to special forces soldiers/soldiers that are celebrated above others for their ability to do something extraordinary, and then you show me cinema clips.

It doesn't matter if the classes had the same fitness level, there obviously were limitations to what the ACE team could accomplish, but what they did accomplish is to remind the player that Rambo is just a movie and that you cannot carry as much as you want, as far as you want, running the whole way, then fight in a fierce battle and just keep running as if you just climbed out of bed. It is a realism mod for realism players only instead of controlling the pace of the mission as many others do by micromanaging every moment you are in the server, their mod does it for them by forcing players to depend on one another. Like a team.

As for being elitist, there is nothing elitist about building a mod for yourself and then sharing it with the community, not everyone will like it and they are not obligated to cater to everyone's opinions of how the mod should be created. Not elitist. Even less so then those that create great mods, tell everyone how great they are and then refuse to share it with anyone.

[CombatComm 10]

I wonder how many people bitching about the fitness portion of this addon are fat slobby armchair commanders? Probably the majority. Get out and run 100 m with a full ruck and m60 in your hands and see if u dont collapse. Most people in here would pass out just trying to pick up the gear. Shit alot of personel in the Air Force cant pass their PT test to save their lives.

[BoxiouS 10]

Everytime i check this thread there's page after page of people whining about the fatigue system. Having never played ACE for Arma i don't know how the old system worked, and frankly i don't care. Have a little faith people.

I wonder how many people bitching about the fitness portion of this addon are fat slobby armchair commanders? Probably the majority. Get out and run 100 m with a full ruck and m60 in your hands and see if u dont collapse. Most people in here would pass out just trying to pick up the gear. Shit alot of personel in the Air Force cant pass their PT test to save their lives.

I'm not fat, but i aint fit either. I don't have an M-16 but i just ran round the block with my rucksac full of wet washing and my guitar. Needless to say i was fucked and close to blacking out.:D

[Uglyboy 10]

Everytime i check this thread there's page after page of people whining about the fatigue system. Having never played ACE for Arma i don't know how the old system worked, and frankly i don't care. Have a little faith people.

I'm not fat, but i aint fit either. I don't have an M-16 but i just ran round the block with my rucksac full of wet washing and my guitar. Needless to say i was fucked and close to blacking out.:D

I hope there wasn't any neighbour around :D That would be kinda hard to explain :rolleyes:

[scubaman3D 0]

Needless to say i was fucked and close to blacking out.:D

hahaa...I love that you did that IRL. :)

[eLuSiVeMiTe 10]

ok im trying to find somewhere to download the ace mod from and cant find working links. can anyone point me in the right direction.

Thanx in advance

[sparks50 0]

The ACE mod for Arma 1 can be found here:

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/A.C.E_Advanced_Combat_Environment#Patch_9_Release_1.09

ACE 2 for Arma 2 is not released yet.

[Evil_Echo 11]

A kindly suggestion to those offering suggestions.

Don't cite as proof a dramatic movie based on a dramatic novel based on some reports of a real event. ACE tends to give more credit to sources like the Janes' series of reference books, field manuals, or actual experiences reported first-hand by active or ex-military.

That means references to "Commando" are not as likely to be taken as seriously as a reference to FM-23-23 about the use of claymore mines. :)

Additionally - some of your ideas do get taken seriously. Discussions of the better ones happen all the time among the team members. The more credible the idea, the better the chances you'll get a goodie down the road. Ok?

[eLuSiVeMiTe 10]

The ACE mod for Arma 1 can be found here:

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/A.C.E_Advanced_Combat_Environment#Patch_9_Release_1.09

ACE 2 for Arma 2 is not released yet.

ahh thats probally why i cant find it :P thanx mate

is there an eta for this yet or a beta

Edited October 16, 2009 by eLuSiVeMiTe

[Fisgas 10]

as it has been said, time and time again, when done.

[eLuSiVeMiTe 10]

lol ok. ive only just heard about it. someone was talking about it in another forum as if it was out already

[Callsign 128]

it is for arma1

[subs17 9]

I give you real world facts and experiences and you give me sticking your fingers in your ears 'lalalalala'. Wiki is not a reliable source but already as I said, you point to special forces soldiers/soldiers that are celebrated above others for their ability to do something extraordinary, and then you show me cinema clips.

It doesn't matter if the classes had the same fitness level, there obviously were limitations to what the ACE team could accomplish, but what they did accomplish is to remind the player that Rambo is just a movie and that you cannot carry as much as you want, as far as you want, running the whole way, then fight in a fierce battle and just keep running as if you just climbed out of bed. It is a realism mod for realism players only instead of controlling the pace of the mission as many others do by micromanaging every moment you are in the server, their mod does it for them by forcing players to depend on one another. Like a team.

.

Well actually there is more than one source of what happened in Bravo 2 zero and it is a good example of some important aspects that could make future mods better or more realsitic. Although its a dramatisation of the actual event it shows several key aspects regarding how much people who are SF can carry and also how they carry it. So note the M72s in the pack if ACE were to model that you could look at changing the load menu. If it were modeled like that would require the player to place the M72 in the pack. To use the M72 would require the player to drop the pack first and then remove the M72. Also note that the SF class should be able to run with it. The actual packs in that patrol weighted alot more than a standard bergen as they carried alot of extra gear some of which they dropped in the initial contact. The fitness class for a teeth arm soldier eg Infantry, engineer, artillery etc Should be fit also since those types of soldiers prior to going to war also maintain a high fitness level although they are normally not as fit as the SF units. At its current level in ACE that is not reflected realistically and also when the players character becomes fatigued it is way too early espeically with a light load.

As for being elitist, there is nothing elitist about building a mod for yourself and then sharing it with the community, not everyone will like it and they are not obligated to cater to everyone's opinions of how the mod should be created. Not elitist. Even less so then those that create great mods, tell everyone how great they are and then refuse to share it with anyone.

I don't get where you are going with this comment as its quite OT we are talking ACE fatigue modeling are we not.

It doesn't matter if the classes had the same fitness level, there obviously were limitations to what the ACE team could accomplish, but what they did accomplish is to remind the player that Rambo is just a movie and that you cannot carry as much as you want.

Overdone is the word that springs to mind here and no its not a limitation its because the person they modeled this off was unfit. Yes I agree that Quake(not RAmbo) style FPS gaming is unrealistic in having players carry 10 weapons and be able to run 100% 100% of the time is unrealistic. As for Rambo in what movie did he carry more than what is modeled in ACE? As for Blackouts that should remain in aircraft only although the blinking effect is good. I think ACE is revolutionising the way FPS is being played in many aspects its well ahead of the other FPS games out there because of this. Even if its modeled the same as ACE1 I'd still use it in Arma2 and just adapt like I did with Arma Ace1. Remember there is a differerence between flaming and discussing.

---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------

Thank you for the comments, as this is exactly what we wanted to happen. Players are forced to depend on each other now. The machine gunner needs teammates to carry extra ammo, the AT gunner needs people to carry extra rockets, and so on.

In addition, since resources are more limited, this forces the player to mind their inventory and not run their ar's on full-auto all the time. And its important to share as well. As a medic, I might often hand out my extra mags to other players and there is sharing among fireteams as well.

I like the machine gun and tripod combination which requires 2 players to setup.

[subs17 9]

Isnt the whole point of ACE that it's NOT modular? Just one mod to rule them all? With features implemented that are supported by a vast majority of the community? Making things modular in MP will only advantage/disadvantage players and will only stand to divide an already relatively small community. If for instance ACE makes shooting after running more realistic by making it harder, I don't want another player to be able to turn that feature off. If ACE incorporates new smoke effects that are more persistent, I don't want another player to turn that off so he can see more than I can. Also, would we find a 100 different types of ACE running on different servers? Don't make it modular I say, keep it simple, keep it clean.

Modular approach is the best way to go my view is combine a modular framework with a standard patch updating system. What is meant by modular is that if the developers want to improve an area of Arma they can without adversely affecting other aspects of the sim or its MP compatibility. Ideally you want an auto-updater as well so for example. If they made a Maverick missile view for the A-10 then installing it wouldn't effect the other modules of the mod. A good example is a sim called Falcon 4 its not modular in its frame work so if you made an F/A-18 mod it would still use F-16 avionics because of that where as FSX is modular you can have as many aircraft addons as you like and you're not limited to just one set of FM or avionics. It just makes it easier for the developers as well I think if they used that approach. It would be very cool if all addon vehicles/wepons/aircraft and terrain were made ace compatible and placed in an auto-update file so everyone gets it so long as its upto the ACE standard. At the moment with Arma we have all these addon vehicles/weapons etc And its not all submitted as part of one mod so you have to download them separately but the advantage is if at the same time they were added to missions like warfare, Evo and domination etc It would make things quite interesting particularly if a new tank or aircraft pops up. Modular is a cool approach.:cool:

[An Fiach 10]

Well actually there is more than one source of what happened in Bravo 2 zero and it is a good example of some important aspects that could make future mods better or more realsitic. Although its a dramatisation of the actual event it shows several key aspects regarding how much people who are SF can carry and also how they carry it. So note the M72s in the pack if ACE were to model that you could look at changing the load menu. If it were modeled like that would require the player to place the M72 in the pack. To use the M72 would require the player to drop the pack first and then remove the M72. Also note that the SF class should be able to run with it. The actual packs in that patrol weighted alot more than a standard bergen as they carried alot of extra gear some of which they dropped in the initial contact. The fitness class for a teeth arm soldier eg Infantry, engineer, artillery etc Should be fit also since those types of soldiers prior to going to war also maintain a high fitness level although they are normally not as fit as the SF units. At its current level in ACE that is not reflected realistically and also when the players character becomes fatigued it is way too early espeically with a light load.

I don't get where you are going with this comment as its quite OT we are talking ACE fatigue modeling are we not.

Overdone is the word that springs to mind here and no its not a limitation its because the person they modeled this off was unfit. Yes I agree that Quake(not RAmbo) style FPS gaming is unrealistic in having players carry 10 weapons and be able to run 100% 100% of the time is unrealistic. As for Rambo in what movie did he carry more than what is modeled in ACE? As for Blackouts that should remain in aircraft only although the blinking effect is good. I think ACE is revolutionising the way FPS is being played in many aspects its well ahead of the other FPS games out there because of this. Even if its modeled the same as ACE1 I'd still use it in Arma2 and just adapt like I did with Arma Ace1. Remember there is a differerence between flaming and discussing.

---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------

I like the machine gun and tripod combination which requires 2 players to setup.

I would like to point out that a portion of that statement was in response to other comments in this thread, so sorry for the confusion.

Anyway, @ BTZ I was pointing out the poor sources for info. Not many are reliable, especially with the tendency for things to get trumped up in the telling. This happens for many reasons, nothing that I need to go into here in detail.

You also assert that regular soldiers maintain a high fitness level which is true only if you consider contestants of "The Biggest Loser" to maintain a moderate fitness level. Simply paying attention to the news cycles where the militaries of many of the major world powers seem to be competing to see who can be the most obese, makes this obvious. In war time, fitness training takes a back seat to other priorities and minimum standards are not that high to begin with. You are using the top few % as a base line.

Pointing out flaws in your arguments or simply disagreeing do not constitute flaming. I am not in the least hostile, but tone typically does not translate well in text, particularly when you are disagreeing with an individual's stated position.

Interesting take on the M79 issue but I would imagine the issue with the packs is simply a limitation of either the game or the time available to develop it. The M79 could be secured in many ways not requiring dropping the pack to access it but neither method reduces the weight. Perhaps SF could run with it, perhaps not. Did/do they have the ability to set separate fitness levels for different classes?

It also depends upon what you consider a light load. Remember to add the 20 or so pounds (20 is probably at the low end for the standard issue) for the tactical vest with armor plates that most characters are already wearing. I carried roughly 100lbs of gear without counting my ruck and it's contents and people weren't mistaking me for Carl Lewis

[Pathy 0]

I can tell you the trouble with the fatigue system as it was in ArmA in one sentence; it didn't simulate or compensate for adrenaline.

It's pointless complaining about the ArmA 2 version when none of know what it's like yet, though.

@Anfiach. Your Army may have low standards and obese soldiers, but don't speak for other nations. ;)

[galzohar 31]

I still don't understand why they decided to keep the "blacking out" system. Real soldiers (and humans overall) don't run until they black out, but rather slow down when they are too tired to run quickly. Blacking out in the battlefield just because you ran too much carrying too much gear just doesn't happen. Just try it yourself, load yourself out with gear and try running as fast as you can, and let me know what happened first - did you black out or did you just slow down and wasn't able to run any faster? I can pretty much guarantee it'll be the latter.

[hollow point 1]

I still don't understand why they decided to keep the "blacking out" system. Real soldiers (and humans overall) don't run until they black out, but rather slow down when they are too tired to run quickly. Blacking out in the battlefield just because you ran too much carrying too much gear just doesn't happen. Just try it yourself, load yourself out with gear and try running as fast as you can, and let me know what happened first - did you black out or did you just slow down and wasn't able to run any faster? I can pretty much guarantee it'll be the latter.

I agree. One guy posted saying he saw a soldier once passing out. Ive seen someone pass out too. It doesnt mean it should be included. I personally didnt like the passing out feature. It happend WAY too soon and was just annoying.

[VKing 12]

I still don't understand why they decided to keep the "blacking out" system. Real soldiers (and humans overall) don't run until they black out, but rather slow down when they are too tired to run quickly. Blacking out in the battlefield just because you ran too much carrying too much gear just doesn't happen. Just try it yourself, load yourself out with gear and try running as fast as you can, and let me know what happened first - did you black out or did you just slow down and wasn't able to run any faster? I can pretty much guarantee it'll be the latter.

I agree. One guy posted saying he saw a soldier once passing out. Ive seen someone pass out too. It doesnt mean it should be included. I personally didnt like the passing out feature. It happend WAY too soon and was just annoying.

You already slow down in-game after you've sprinted a while, over long distances it's no faster to sprint than to just run, so you do slow down before you black out.

And both IRL and in ACE you can push yourself beyond that, but then you risk running yourself into the ground.

And why does everyone seem to think you just collapsed or blacked out immediatly in ace1? You could run and sprint for quite some time, even when relativly heavily loaded, before you even got the really heavy breathing.

[Prydain 1]

I agree. One guy posted saying he saw a soldier once passing out. Ive seen someone pass out too. It doesnt mean it should be included. I personally didnt like the passing out feature. It happend WAY too soon and was just annoying.

It may happen in your local weight watchers club, but for soldiers this shouldn't happen unless they have eaten too many Mc'yDs, haven't eaten for a day or two or are about to get kicked out for not being fit.

I recently [mostly] ran and jogged a distance of 2.3miles (according to my Curvimetre) carrying a toddler, I didn't black out and I am far less fit than what is required of soldiers.

And why does everyone seem to think you just collapsed or blacked out immediatly in ace1? You could run and sprint for quite some time, even when relativly heavily loaded, before you even got the really heavy breathing.

Well if you sprinted more than a metre or two you would loose all weapon stability, I liken it to like suddenly being struck with ataxia. Blacking out did happen quite a lot for me in ACE1, it was extremely annoying when you play with an organised group because you need to quickly react and move a lot so you just end up 'battle-incapable' because your weapon would be swaying all over the place and some times blacking out would come up and just turn the rest of your game into you childishly whining about how the system is designed with fat people in mind.

[mattxr 9]

jesus f**k can we stop with the blacking out/fatness/fatgiue shite and lets talk about a differnt feature for once ive read in the past 20 pages or so just tonnes of unessary shite about blacking out now my eyes are bleeding, im suprised they just dont get this thead locked untill someone has something good to say i knw i would.

Speaking of other features, how will the mask system work in mp? So i configure say a gas mask in my config will that mask be able to be seen by other players etc? will it limit my view all the time like with the mask effect?

[usarmy19dsniper 0]

How about we change the topic with some eye candy from the ACE team of new features?

[Evil_Echo 11]

To all those who have claimed they can run with heavy loads, soldiers are out of shape, etc. in the last 3 weeks....

You have 4 days from the date of this posting to post a link to a new YouTube video of yourself sprinting with 40kg of gear on your back for 200m and then reciting the first 20 sentences of your national constitution without any errors. At the begining you must include yourself showing your national identity card in a way it can be clearly read on the screen by a person with 20/20 vision in non-HD mode without any magnification aids. The video will be checked for tampering.

Failure to complete the challenge will be an explicit and total admission that you are spamming this forum and BI will be asked to look into whether you should be punished for abusive and/or harrassing behavior.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Evil_Echo