Useful radio communication, more human. Examples:

[hardrock 1]

@hardrock: Yes I did.

Ok, I apologize if I may have been rude.

Did you read mine above where I say the formation direction is utterly broken (in some cases in Arma1), where I have my line formation look like a file/column formation with me as leader in the middle when we are moving forward?

I know this behaviour from OFP, I suppose it was the same in Armed Assault. I remember that in OFP it took a while until your formation direction changed to where the leader is facing after the leader changed the direction. I don't think this is bad though, otherwise all your units would reformate even if you only change direction for a few seconds.

Of course, it was always very tricky finding out what the actual direction of the formation was if the AI was in lead. That's where the clock indicator helped a lot, and that is also why I think a subtle formation direction indicator, that appears when a radio message with a direction comes in, would be a good idea. Just like the old clock.

[deady 0]

This is the kind of question you shouldve asked the community before going ahead and releasing the game really.

But anyway, personally I like the compass direction idea.

[NoRailgunner 0]

What about general reporting:

more than 500m

"Contact! <unknown>/<friendly>/<enemy>/<civilian>, <compass direction> ,<approx distance>, <heading>"

rifle range 200-500m

"Contact! <unknown>/<friendly>/<enemy>/<civilian> ,<compass direction>, <distance> ,<heading> ,<behaviour>"

close distances 0-200m

"Contact! <unknown>/<friendly>/<enemy>/<civilian> ,<clock direction> ,<distance> ,<heading> ,<behaviour>"

Dont know if its better for faster AI - reporting fireteams, groups, platoons instead of calling one by one? For example: "Contact! Unknown group of 9, north, 800m, moving east, safe."

Edited June 3, 2009 by NoRailgunner

[lt_darkman 0]

Please no... while totally precise, It's way too technical and counterintuitive...

I would say the ideal solution would be to split the system according to the distance or context :

- When "directly ordered" to do something or for short distances make the referential "player-centric" : "Target that man to your left, 50m (or 9'O clock, but YOUR 9 O'clock), so that there's no translation needed and no compass or clock showing. The order is instantly usable.

- When "reporting facts" or for far objects, make the referential "world-centric" : "BMP Spotted North, 2000m"

Some great ideas guys.

Keeping it simple though this one still works best for me.

Player-centric works best when you're under pressure. Any time spent working out what the message means is time you don't have. It's gameplay over realism I know but Situational Awareness is easier in real life than what we have in front of us. Detail is what you need when you have more time and need to know exactly where to look because the target is further away.

P

[froggyluv 2136]

Some great ideas guys.

Keeping it simple though this one still works best for me.

Player-centric works best when you're under pressure. Any time spent working out what the message means is time you don't have. It's gameplay over realism I know but Situational Awareness is easier in real life than what we have in front of us. Detail is what you need when you have more time and need to know exactly where to look because the target is further away.

P

+1

I prefer directions in all cases as relevant to the player. I disagree with the statement that 'direction' in CQB is too speedy to be helpful. Most of the time I can't even see my squad as I have them spread out providing cover fire in an arc formation. If multiple enemies show up and they yell 'Front, left,right!" and I'm looking sideways, it takes me more time to figure out which way their talking about than the almost automatic response of tapping 'k' for compass.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@hardrock: Rude? No, not that I saw :) Btw, I'm aware how the clock is supposed to work, and even then I'm not sure if it is sufficient. The problem is the bug where the formation direction is totally screwed up during the whole mission and can't really be reset. Not sure if addon causes it, or if I'm the only one that have it. :)

@Deady: We can't seem to come to a proper way ourselves :)

@Lt_Darkman:

Any time spent working out what the message means is time you don't have.

I agree, but keeping everything relevant to the leader, althouth leader centric, is keeping it short, simple, and concistent. 'Working out what the message means', while under pressure, simply bring up the regular compass for a line on the compass showing direction from player centric. Don't work with contacts though, only goto orders (currently in Arma1), and targets (hopefully soon in Arma2?).

Maybe a toggle for leader centric or player centric? Centricality (?) might not be the most important issue. But I think 'left of us' and '9 o clock' should be avoided due to all the above mentioned problems with it. In multiplayer, we tend to use 'o clock', 'left of us', cardinal directions, and degrees all over the place with no particular structure. It just happens, and it works.

[lt_darkman 0]

Maybe a toggle for leader centric or player centric?

Good idea.

If it's implementable then Centricity (like electricity but cheaper) sounds like a winner ;)

P

[EDcase 87]

I prefer the OFP style. Just pure info in military terms rather than trying to make up a sentence.

All AI reporting contacts should be relative to the player for simplicity. Would that work in MP?

For contacts within 200m the distance described using Clock face direction like ArmA.

Beyond 200m a compass direction and distance in steps like "Under" or "Over" | "200 meters" or "500 meters".

For distant refrences how about talking in "Clicks"?

Enemy | man | 100 meters | at | 12 O'clock

Enemy | T72 | over 500 meters | to the | Northwest

instead of

Enemy...man...to our...front....far

In my opinion most of the ArmA2 comms sound good like the "move to.." etc.

Some of the voice acting could be better like the sounds of pain are a bit weak and the yell for "corpsman" sounds more anrgy than in pain.

Its mainly the target reporting that needs improvement. The comms sound awkward because the voice accentuation varies too much and it sounds worse than OFP/ArmA because its trying to say more.

I also think it could be improved generally by reducing the pause between clips like when he says "in front of.....us"

Edited June 3, 2009 by EDcase

[Taconic 0]

A lot of good ideas are in this thread. It's refreshing to see a developer take such an interest.

My thoughts:

-Basically, the most important thing to do is to cram as much info as possible into as few words as possible. I think OFP did this best. We don't really need to hear that there's a "machine gunner far to our left" because it's assumed that the group is the reference point. "Machine gunner, left, far" would be sufficient and faster.

-Formatting the message is also very important. The most urgent info should be presented first. I think that OFP had it right in that it gave the bearing to target first since that is without question the most urgent piece of info. I would say that the best structure would be (Bearing) (Description of target) (Distance)

-I like the idea of using the clock as a reference for close/midrange and compass for long range. For the sake of consistency, a bearing could be given instead of using clock positions (ex: "Bearing 270, Man, Far" instead of "9 o'clock, Man, Far." I don't know if this is done with infantry, but it is done on ships. A small compass could pop up instead of a clock for reference. Calling out bearings would also give a bit more granularity in terms of information that the AI can convey.)

-I also like the idea of a whisper for very close range comms. It's intuitive and will tell the player immediately that the AI has spotted something very close instead of a target on the other side of the valley.

-I also think that something needs to be done about the cadence of the speech. I realize that BIS is trying to make things more lifelike (and they should be commended for that,) but I don't think it works out too well yet. The monotones used in OFP string together very well and were very clear. I found some of the voices in Arma occasionally difficult to understand because they spoke too quickly. OFP had the opposite problem. There has to be a balance somewhere.

[privateguba 0]

I think this is like the old Padlock arguing from the flight sim community.

From what I've seen, I'd prefer the old OFP clock style. At least as an option.

Yes , once you learn to use it, it's too easy and acurate to locate an enemy. There's no error. Even if you're spining, the clock appears and you turn on the given 'hour'.

Only when we're able to play the game at 10000x8000 inside a 360º dome at max details at 500 fps we'll be able to play with this more human and less acurate left/right system.

Edited June 3, 2009 by privateguba

[Duxa 10]

Is it possible for the AI to call out people are "o clock" instead of giving meaningless coordinate numbers?

[volkov956 0]

yea I prefered the Oclock even if the AI was wrong sometimes when reporting it to u (whern in a tank with an AI)

[Jimmy the Saint 10]

That would be great. I noticed the new sitreps in the (by the way great) demo and they get me confused.

An example - I get a radio-message that goes something like this: "Riflemen, 500 meters in front of us." - does that mean the rifleman is 500m in front of me, 500m in front of my squad or in front of the group leader?

[funkee 0]

No it's not ;) I like this new system. The old one was bad and inaccurate.

[Thirdup 0]

I have to favor the new system. The calls reporting "to the West" or "to the South" are far more accurate than the old "at 3 o'clock" (when godonlyknows what direction the AI was facing when he called it in under the old system).

[Jimmy the Saint 10]

The clock callouts worked like a imaginary compass as far as I know. So 3 o'clock was east, 6 o'clock south, 9 o'clock west and 12 o'clock north etc.

Now, when I get a message like: "In front of us." it's like oh yeah, but where are you looking at?

[frederf 0]

That is correct only if 12 o'clock is North. 12 o'clock can be any direction which is "front." O'clock is very often used with vehicles where 12 o'clock is where the vehicle hull is pointed. It's not unheard of for the "o'clock" method to be used with infantry but left, right, front, rear and East, West, North, South are far more common. Group facing directions tend to work pretty well with humans since they have a natural understanding of what "front" is in most situations that have a well defined front.

Thirdup, what game are you playing? The AI never calls out contacts East, West, etc. They seem to call out in terms of left, right, front or by grid reference if they are far.

[the_shadow 0]

i would like something in the lines of

"CONTACT REAR/FRONT/LEFT/RIGHT, MAN/CAR/TRUCK/TANK/PLANE/WHATEVER, 500"

meaning..

"CONTACT *direction*, *type*, *distance*

direction is ofcourse the direction you are traveling (dont have to be the direction the leader is watching)

could also be north/south/east/west but i prefer "direction of travel"

thats realistic and very good way of calling out targets..

but none of that was in either ArmA or OFP as i remember.

[An Fiach 10]

I think it is fine how it is, some of you want unrealistic accuracy, even with humans it can be extremely vague and that's rather the point.

[Dangerdog 0]

I'd like a radio silence command that would perhaps turn off the voice responses and just display the text.

[Jimmy the Saint 10]

Thirdup, what game are you playing? The AI never calls out contacts East, West, etc. They seem to call out in terms of left, right, front or by grid reference if they are far.

I am playing the demo version. However, I do not recall how the exact syntax for different situations is. So you are probably right. At the moment I am using the map as my best friend for orientation - even in multiplayer-coop.

*edit

I was not saying anything about the AI in Armed Assault 2 calling out east, west etc.

I was just referring to Operation Flashpoint where the callouts where related to a watch/compass system.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Jimmy the Saint

[BoxiouS 10]

Another vote for Bravo6's method here, and another vote for less fragmented comm chatter. It sounds awful. Not good when you want to show off the game to a mate and they'e bowled over by the graphics and sound and then:- "All. Move to that. Tree" Not good. Also shouting comms when you've just crawled half a mile and are under the enemy's nose is an immersion killer.

Good on you for asking our opinions though and if you're stuck for someone to re-record the chatter, I'm free. Got a bit of an accent but. "By 'eck pal, there's some bloke wi' a gun runnin' this way':D

Edited June 29, 2009 by BoxiouS
Spelling.

[Mcpl-Ripcord 0]

This is how we do it.

Contact left! (or pick your direction right ) anything to your front or rear is given by a clock location 6 o'clock is rear etc etc

Everyone in the platoon,section or fire team goes prone,kneels whatever is best for cover and faces left (or direction said)

then move into an extended line facing the direction of the attack

then whomever saw the "target" says

clock location now a more accurate direction is given since we r all now facing the proper direction 12 o'clock is to every ones front

"description of what is attacking us" (armor,infantry,dog etc etc)

Range in meters.. 200m (if the attacker is hard to see there may be a "follow my trace" which the person who saw the attacker fires on the position where he saw them and we fire in the same place once the tracer round has been fired or before if we see the rounds clearly striking.

then a firing order ...suppressing fire etc etc

generally we don't wait till everyone is facing the same way to start "winning the firefight"

we also don't wait for a Firing order to start shooting if we see the attacker..we just lay down fire to try to keep their heads down while we move into position and make a plan of attack.

it isn't like that all the time but that is the formula we use

[Yorke 10]

and for the devs, why dont you record full sentence of a transmission like "contact man 3 o'clock 100m" and then just crop the recording like contact | man | 3 o'clock | 100 meters, instead of recording everything separately, I mean when he says in game "3" it sounds like he is drunk, when says "o'clock" he sounds like he is tyred and "man" like he just woke up, so there is no sense...

and also I suggest recording "100 meters" together not "100" | "meters" separately, because they are said in the same tone, and it is hard to put together when different, I know it would add more work and bytes, but it will sound more human!

[TangoRomeo 10]

To keep things simple we only used direction callouts like front, half-left, left etc, reference being the squads movement direction/orientation. No clock reference, or compass directions - for precise target location fix we use terrain features or objects close to the target. The system i´m used too is called EREZA, and it should be similar, if not identical to other systems.

Einheit (Unit)

Richtung (Direction)

Entfernung (Distance)

Ziel + Hilfsziel (Target + additonal target reference)

Ausfuehrung (Execution) - not important for AI call-outs.

Example:

- Razor

- half-left

- 400

- enemy rifle squad, on that W-E narrow pass close to the v-shaped tree