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Latest ArmA2 & ArmA2:OA Press Coverage | NO discussion here!

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  (mr.g-c @ Feb. 15 2009,21:31) said:
If i would have to recall what people complained at most at the graphics, than its clearly:

1. The over-blooming.

2. The brownish look of the overall scenery.

Both is not realistic.

Whenever i use tone auto-correction of PS CS4 it produces pictures how it should really look, by removing that "brown filter" which is constantly over the whole scenery.

I would like to know if BIS addressed those "critics/complains", or if they just ignore it and leave it like it is....

Thanks!

I got a problem with that, i don´t like when a few people think that they have to speak out for the whole community. Just keep it to your own opinion and don´t speak for others and i am fine with it.

I often dont´t agree with a lot of complains brought in here, for example i don´t give a FU about how realistic an animation looks. What matters is they have to work, i prefer smooth gameplay over realistic animations. Maybe people prefer to do the moonwalk ingame but i want the tools to stop you before you can do so. I think they got much more important things to do then adjusting cow animations.

Maybe you don´t like the so called "brownish" look of ArmA 2 but i do. I life close to the Black Forest here in germany and as far as game graphics go this game could well play on an autum day in my backyard.

Some people in this Com are so... BIS gives us a cow and we want her to milk icon_rolleyes.gif There are threads called "do they listen" if they wouldn´t this Com would have died in 2003.

In all the years i played PC Games i never was so close to the developers than here. I am fine with how the communication with them work they also could go the EA or Codemasters way and hide in some sort of cave.

Easiest way now is to call me a blind fanboy but as it was said before its all about "respect".

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  (Dwarden @ Feb. 16 2009,00:26) said:
  (sparks50 @ Feb. 16 2009,06:07) said:
BTW I wonder if this Youtube channel is genuine?

http://www.youtube.com/user/ARMA2official

no idea,

as official videos are posted under / by Idea Games on both YT and GT and ST ...

e.g.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ideagames

Definitely not. The IGN video is for IGNs website only. On top of that, there is a video or 2 that are exactly the same - which makes little sense. He tried to make it look real, but failed smile_o.gif

All around the internet, all I'm hearing is good commentary about Arma2. Perhaps a few concerns/questions, but everything seems to be going pretty good so far (especially people who haven't met you guys!wink_o.gif. Some people needa give BIS some slack and not be such dicks all the time. If theres somethin you don't like about it, perhaps they could suggest what they personally would like to have in it. Not everyone can be happy or get what you want.

That said, I don't mind the brown texture thing yall were bringing up. I think its probably because of the weather feature for sure (considering the vast difference in screenshots), even if it wasn't - it really gives the 'dirty' feel. A feeling much missed since ofp imo. The 'white glow', may be weather related as well but thats impossible to tell as well. Perhaps in time we'll see more of what they are trying to do with it, like yall were saying - they've got like a long time to work on the game.

-Which is odd considering they'd have to make 1 video a week for 6 months if they do what their developers youtube account says and will make 1 video a week until release. smile_o.gif

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  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]BIS gives us a cow and we want her to milk icon_rolleyes.gif

Priceless, and oh so true...

With a localized particle spray it could be done... but we all know that milk simulation "SUX BIG TIME" in Arma...

rofl.gif

Apart from this dairy concerns, please keep on the good work BIS.

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  (mr.g-c @ Feb. 15 2009,23:31) said:
If i would have to recall what people complained at most at the graphics, than its clearly:

1. The over-blooming.

2. The brownish look of the overall scenery.

Both is not realistic.

Whenever i use tone auto-correction of PS CS4 it produces pictures how it should really look, by removing that "brown filter" which is constantly over the whole scenery.

I would like to know if BIS addressed those "critics/complains", or if they just ignore it and leave it like it is....

Thanks!

ArmA looks too much "virtual". The "brown" -filter, as you call it. Makes ArmA II look Realistic. first screenshots were " wow_o.gif "

They look nice, the chopper sounds nice in the video, the guns sound awesome, aanimations look cool. all I need. I am going to buy it even if it misses da moonwalk  tounge2.gif

Where you see over-blooming?? confused_o.gif

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  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]

I got a problem with that, i don´t like when a few people think that they have to speak out for the whole community. Just keep it to your own opinion and don´t speak for others and i am fine with it.

It isn't....neither for the BI-Forums community, nor for others.

Its what I recall from reading in like over 5 different Arma2 related Forums(one i run on my own) and various comments in (mostly german) Online gaming newspapers.

Anyway, those two issues were never a big deal for me too, for the blooming i hope to have a slider in settings menu and for the "brown-is-real" stuff, it rather picked my eyes again by viewing the latest ChDKZ-Teaser, in which i noticed that now even the sky is brown.  biggrin_o.gif

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]I often dont´t agree with a lot of complains brought in here, for example i don´t give a FU about how realistic an animation looks. What matters is they have to work, i prefer smooth gameplay over realistic animations.

Ever thought that smooth animations are very close tied to a smooth gameplay? One example is just the current Arma walking animation.

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]Maybe you don´t like the so called "brownish" look of ArmA 2 but i do. I life close to the Black Forest here in germany and as far as game graphics go this game could well play on an autum day in my backyard.

Lol, i live 20km south of Frankfurt in a small town surrounded by massive forests and smaller forest-covered hills of all types.

I'm a daily bike driver and trust me, i know how nature looks in middle-European areas and it doesn't has any brown filter in RL... Want to see pics of our woods? I have plenty of em on PC....

No matter, use search function for "brown is real" or whatever... All i'm saying is that "more people than usual" "complained, remarked, criticized or whatever" that they don't like this feature to much.

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]

Easiest way now is to call me a blind fanboy but as it was said before its all about "respect".

Lol, all of us still writing here are some sort of Fanboys....  wink_o.gif  tounge2.gif

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]ArmA looks too much "virtual". The "brown" -filter, as you call it. Makes ArmA II look Realistic.

Thats the Problem again, brown filter does not makes it look more real, at least if you don't saturate it to much.

A sahme i can't find the old discussions about it, with the nice "brown-is-real" comic.... It seems that this is a general "problem" through all game-manufacturers/movie-makers.

However, look at this pic to see what i mean.... i smoothly blended it, on the left 50% is the original capture and on the right 50% is quick PS CS4 Auto-tone. You will notice the difference at the sky.

arma2cznew3sm6.jpg

So there is definitely a brown "layer/filter" above all else. Its not the textures of stuff or anything else IMHO, just that "filter/layer".

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]Where you see over-blooming??

Everywhere!

At worst its IMHO the light-reflecting cows in "Arma2-Citizens-of-Chernarus" Teaser. But also the blooming which comes through woods, like you can see at older screenshots does not look like this strong in RL.

I'm not saying "blooming is non-existent", but i just agree to the others that its "to strong" maybe....

Questions answered?

EDIT: I found it!!

http://kotaku.com/gaming/comics/vgcats-real-is-brown-230336.php

It criticizes both issues Arma2 has, brownish and over-blooming....

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From that point of view, the whole post-processing is not that authentic. Remember the lens flares in OFP? In the days of OFP, lens flares were engine-wise a feature that was considered as real, and a must have to be up to date. BIS on the other hand accredited, that an lens flare effect relies on optical lenses and is not visible by human's eyes. So they brought in lens flares only, when in cam-mode or 3rd-person view. That's real.

In ArmA they introduced HDR® to their newest franchise, but that implementation is dimming way to slow, pretending to be more a cheap camcorder with the cheapest photosensor built-in, than a human being. Motion blur is just the same. It is an optical effect, that is more visibile with artificial equipment, than it is when using the biological counterparts - the originals. Eyes and brains work fast, and that is what BIS seems to understate here and there.

However, the nature of those effects can be ported over to bloom, depth of field, specular mapping and stuff. They may be a little unrealistic in amount and scale, but those techniques are common in rt-cg nowadays and considered as to attracting the audience, like hollywood does. What would be sci-fi without blazing fx? We say shaderparty in rt-cg. The golden path would be to fine-tune all the post processing to achieve a believable environment, and to prevent the visuals from getting too cartoonish.

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  (mr.g-c @ Feb. 16 2009,12:51) said:
  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]

Lol, i live 20km south of Frankfurt in a small town surrounded by massive forests and smaller forest-covered hills of all types.

I'm a daily bike driver and trust me, i know how nature looks in middle-European areas and it doesn't has any brown filter in RL... Want to see pics of our woods? I have plenty of em on PC....

No matter, use search function for "brown is real" or whatever... All i'm saying is that "more people than usual" "complained, remarked, criticized or whatever" that they don't like this feature to much.

Nature can be strange and the sky can have all sort of colors depanding on day time, air pollution... i don´t want to go deeper into this but thats how it is.

This is a picture taken out of my window the color ranges from orange to brown it also effects the surrounding. If you need more brown pictures i can show it to you later i think i got some more this was only a quick search in my database.

93784077dt6.jpg

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Bionic, either you are not getting it or i don't know...at least you can't be serious to show that picture and justify with it that "brown is real" for Arma2.... rofl.gif

What you just showed is a normal sunset and neither is it brown, nor does it appear like a filter over everything. Hell it doesn't even come in the slightest close, to what we are discussing here for Arma2

icon_rolleyes.gif

The Arma2 Picture i showed however, which is recorded in pure daylight obviously, shows that brown filter we are talking about very clearly...

Also please read the linked topic with the comic. These Artists also noticed that odd "trend" to over-brown and over-bloom everything....

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  (bionic @ Feb. 16 2009,14:53) said:
  (mr.g-c @ Feb. 16 2009,12:51) said:
  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]

Lol, i live 20km south of Frankfurt in a small town surrounded by massive forests and smaller forest-covered hills of all types.

I'm a daily bike driver and trust me, i know how nature looks in middle-European areas and it doesn't has any brown filter in RL... Want to see pics of our woods? I have plenty of em on PC....

No matter, use search function for "brown is real" or whatever... All i'm saying is that "more people than usual" "complained, remarked, criticized or whatever" that they don't like this feature to much.

Nature can be strange and the sky can have all sort of colors depanding on day time, air pollution... i don´t want to go deeper into this but thats how it is.

This is a picture taken out of my window the color ranges from orange to brown it also effects the surrounding. If you need more brown pictures i can show it to you later i think i got some more this was only a quick search in my database.

[/url]

Well, it's yellowish brown because it's either dawn or morning. but Arma 2's newest video tells us it's 13.05, that's a day, a time when sun is high up in he sky, only two varied colors should be seen, highly blue and highly yellow. or if it's cloudy, so dark blue.

Brown and yellow should only be dominant at dusk and dawn. Or during a very strong cloud of fire (sorta like after atomn bomb or city in fire whistle.gif )

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From what i can tell the civilians video and the marines video did not appear to have any of this "brownish color". Maybe BIS was trying to make it have the brownish color because it was being flimed by an old VHS camera. Either way, to me its not a big deal, i did not even notice till i started reading on here.

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Btw, just some screens from the Area Arma2 will be played...

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/4456074.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/7382618.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/2579986.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/5008867.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/8949277.jpg

You guys are free show me a brown filter in that area....  icon_rolleyes.gif  whistle.gif

Jesus christ Google-Earth V5 has some high-quality sat-pictures of that area.... that area will be very big to play..... notworthy.gif

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Subject of lighting...

I hope the lighting is a big improvement over Arma.. i hated being blinded by the sun (and shot) all the time.

I hated having any sort of artificial light source (headlights, street lights and even instrument lights) turn my NVG's pitch black.

I really disliked the graphics when there was no sun/moon lighting, at night or when it was overcast.

The day/night cycle was dull and unimpressive even compared to OPF's sunsets and sunrises.

And ofcourse the artificial lighting cast by street lights, fires, etc was also very dull and poor in Arma.

I think the above is more important than the intensity of bloom and use of brown wink_o.gif .

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  (mr.g-c @ Feb. 16 2009,15:10) said:
Bionic, either you are not getting it or i don't know...at least you can't be serious to show that picture and justify with it that "brown is real" for Arma2....  rofl.gif

What you just showed is a normal sunset and neither is it brown, nor does it appear like a filter over everything. Hell it doesn't even come in the slightest close, to what we are discussing here for Arma2

icon_rolleyes.gif

The Arma2 Picture i showed however, which is recorded in pure daylight obviously, shows that brown filter we are talking about very clearly...

Also please read the linked topic with the comic. These Artists also noticed that odd "trend" to over-brown and over-bloom everything....

So i don´t know what the problem is at all other ingame screenshots of ArmA 2 clearly show that there is no brownfilter ingame. So all that fuss about the brownfilter is because of the videoediting? Thats laughable!

All i wanted to show with the picture i posted is that the light effects the surrounding may it be blue, orange, brown...

But since that outcry about the brownfilter seems only to be because of videoediting keep on bashing i couldn´t care less rofl.gif

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What a stupid discussion especially as the other trailers shown that the game has a variety of filter effects.

Guess we will also tell filmmakers to get rid of effect layers because it doesnt look like that in real life?

As the comic you posted mentions gears of war and such with these filters, well could it be that these are there to give the game a overall more dirty and wastelandish atmosphere?

But i guess one can discuss everything to death if he only wants.

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  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]So i don´t know what the problem is at all other ingame screenshots of ArmA 2 clearly show that there is no brownfilter ingame. So all that fuss about the brownfilter is because of the videoediting? Thats laughable!

Yes there is! The whole scenery is browned - not only in the latest pictures.

You still not get it.... the one in the recent trailer it's now at the worst,  since now also the sky is brown....

Also, we are already got used to this "dull and over browned view", because we saw Arma2 screens very often....

But i hope anyone remembered as the first in-game shot on the Arma2.com website appeared? Basically at every spot i read, people complained because it was all so dull, over-browned, etc, compared to real life or even Arma1.....And this is still today in Arma2.

EDIT: Picture(by burns), you see the difference obviously...

nixdaum3.th.jpg

We only got used to it.... But as i said it wasn't a big deal for me until the recent trailer appeared with the now also brown-sky - that is the point where it thought i should bring-back the discussion about to much brown.

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]All i wanted to show with the picture i posted is that the light effects the surrounding may it be blue, orange, brown...

No you don't. You replied before by using that as a justification of brown-is-real in Arma2 - otherwise you wouldn't have written it as there was no other discussion about any "lightning" going on.

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]What a stupid discussion especially as the other trailers shown that the game has a variety of filter effects.

Please, if you have nothing else constructive to say, stay out of the discussion....

Or do you want others to enter discussions you find important and where you are participating, telling you "how stupid it is to discuss".

Thats not nice.....  confused_o.gif

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I suspect the brown hue is just video editing because not all the video's have it. Though I kind of like it. Brown, gray sort of colors are typically associated with soviet war movies and such. Creates atmosphere and often consistency.

Hue's much more dramatic than this have been used to great effect in certain games like GRAW and Full Spectrum Warrior among others.

Would be cool if a mission designer could apply a hue actually. Spice things up a bit.

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Maybe this discussion should have its own topic, this thread is meant to discuss the latest press coverage afterall wink_o.gif .

Anyway i think i can kill this discussion with a link to

..

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  (Heatseeker @ Feb. 16 2009,11:49) said:
Maybe this discussion should have its own topic, this thread is meant to discuss the latest press coverage afterall wink_o.gif .

Anyway i think i can kill this discussion with a link to

..

Lets hope the entire game doesn't use that blood rage filter in the video.

I was just going to point to the trailer on the front page of Arma2.com. That trailer has blue skys and no browning or atleast I didn't notice anything. The bloom did seem a bit too much sometimes though. Then again it wouldn't detrack from the experience for me.

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  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]No you don't. You replied before by using that as a justification of brown-is-real in Arma2 - otherwise you wouldn't have written it as there was no other discussion about any "lightning" going on.

I replied to

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]If i would have to recall what people complained at most at the graphics, than its clearly:

1. The over-blooming.

2. The brownish look of the overall scenery.

My reply was

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]Maybe you don´t like the so called "brownish" look of ArmA 2 but i do. I life close to the Black Forest here in germany and as far as game graphics go this game could well play on an autum day in my backyard.

That reply was meant taking into account that the ArmA 2 story is taking place during Fall. In Fall even "some" leafs become brown but i guess you proof me wrong if i now say that depending on daytime the sky can become brown you will go nuts.

p4040284wt3.jpg

By the way all arguments aside it doesn´t change my stand that i like how ArmA2 looks like and i don´t like someone else speaking for me.

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]But i hope anyone remembered as the first in-game shot on the Arma2.com website appeared? Basically at every spot i read, people complained because it was all so dull, over-browned, etc, compared to real life or even Arma1.....And this is still today in Arma2.

I think you mix that with the first OFP 2 screenshots that CM released there i agree they are way to brownish. wink_o.gif  

Most people who played the original OFP complained about ArmA and its funky colors the biggest wish was to get that dirty war feeling from OFP back. And if i may say so ArmA 2 is on its best way.

  [b said:
Quote[/b] ]Please, if you have nothing else constructive to say, stay out of the discussion....

Or do you want others to enter discussions you find important and where you are participating, telling you "how stupid it is to discuss".

Thats not nice.....

Well at some point shadow is right

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  (Heatseeker @ Feb. 16 2009,17:49) said:
Maybe this discussion should have its own topic, this thread is meant to discuss the latest press coverage afterall wink_o.gif .

Anyway i think i can kill this discussion with a link to

..

Hey thats a nice video....

Great light-effects and no massive over-browned there.

I hope the final product will look like this and not brown... tounge2.gifbiggrin_o.gif

Blood-Rage..... wow.....

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personally i don't mind the brown filter as seen in any video so far, just anything to shake that banana republic feel of Arma 1.

but back on topic, i really like those videos and i think that they are a good step in advertising the game on major websites and for new players as well as for establishing the story in the same way that William porter blog did for arma 1. However i share the feeling of some on this thread that we could do with a few low-key five minutes in the editor kind of videos just to show some of the Ai behavior.

Of course BIS might not feel comfortable in showing WIP videos of the AI (given the amount of hot-tempered people in here nener.gif ), but i would argue that it feels at least to me that we are in a late stage in development and that the AI should possibly be ready or almost ready if they are to meet those proposed deadlines. Of course i could be wrong as i don't work in BIS and i cant know were are they in development for sure, in which case it would be nice if one of the devs can fill us in on the AI progress so far and what it can and cant do.

But as always great work so far BIS    smile_o.gif

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  (Barely-injured @ Feb. 16 2009,21:48) said:
personally i don't mind the brown filter as seen in any video so far, just anything to shake that banana republic feel of Arma 1.

but back on topic, i really like those videos and i think that they are a good step in advertising the game on major websites and for new players as well as for establishing the story in the same way that William porter blog did for arma 1. However i share the feeling of some on this thread that we could do with a few low-key five minutes in the editor kind of videos just to show some of the Ai behavior.

Of course BIS might not feel comfortable in showing WIP videos of the AI (given the amount of hot-tempered people in here nener.gif ), but i would argue that it feels at least to me that we are in a late stage in development and that the AI should possibly be ready or almost ready if they are to meet those proposed deadlines. Of course i could be wrong as i don't work in BIS and i cant know were are they in development for sure, in which case it would be nice if one of the devs can fill us in on the AI progress so far and what it can and cant do.

But as always great work so far BIS    smile_o.gif

agreed biggrin_o.gif

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This is for the people who think arma will be brown.

http://www.armaholic.com/pfs.php....w_3.jpg

http://www.armaholic.com/pfs.php....w_8.jpg

http://www.armaholic.com/pfs.php?m=view&v=4-igromania_7.jpg

http://www.armaholic.com/pfs.php?m=view&v=4-igromania_6.jpg

http://www.armaholic.com/pfs.php?m=view&v=4-sectorsk_2.jpg

http://www.armaholic.com/pfs.php?m=view&v=4-gamespy_4.jpg

http://www.armaholic.com/pfs.php....ot2.jpg

edit: So basicaly, it varies greatly. I think this has to do with their new lighting system and their new volumetric system. It has an affect on the weather like real life. When their is no clouds or anything like that, it's pretty clear. When their is clouds it can be grey, blue, and brown. I've seen this in real life. Don't forget they have a more accurate weather system. Infact, there was a independent review on arma2 by someone and he said that you can almost feel the rain coming in, that you could tell that the game was very simialer to arma but it was very differen't at the same time.

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