Join in progress (JIP) and possible problems

[Metal Heart 0]

Equal numbers doesn't mean equal teams. You know, like in OFP it was rather common in pvp mp, for experienced players to team up against noobs.

[GBee 0]

Which is why I suggested a skill-based auto-balance system.

[lwlooz 0]

Oh please,leave me alone with stats,tracking or any form of "skill"-saving.Especially if its hardcoded.

If you want auto-balancing in a CTF,DM mission,script it.If you dont want players to be able to swap sides during games,give the mission-maker the ability to script.All im hearing in this thread is suggesting hardcoded limitations that could be a PITA for anyone that wants side-switching during game,who doesnt want auto-balancing.Sure you could say,well give em a switch "off" option then.But my opinion is that all kind of stuff you mentioned should be left to the mission-maker to be implemented via scripts.BIS just have to give us the tools.

I have to repeat what i said in the other thread.If you make JIP work that way that every playable unit on the map can be joined into,and you give the mission maker ways to change the playable-status or create new playable units and you add fancy onJoin.sqs or Joined-eventhandlers,you have total control (well,maybe someone can come up with something that gives you more control) over how JIP works in your mission without any hardcoded limitations to begin with.

Crazy Looz

[GBee 0]

Having to implement these things via scripts would be a PITA. Especially if I wanted to setup a quick adhoc server - I don't want to be searching for, or writing, scripts to allow basic functions such as auto-balancing. Requiring scripts for basic server setups is the sort of thing that will kill MP for the Arma newbies.

Yes the mission makers should be able to script certain MP/JIP related events. The server owners should have the final say though with the ability, should they want it, to override those mission defaults.

[GGX_Lennon 0]

JIP is a good thing!

This option will bring many mp-gamers to ArmA. No more waiting times if u want a quick public "fun-war"..

For clanwars u will be able to make your server pw-protected.. I see no problem!

ArmA will stay ArmA...

[Auss 208]

There was some debate about this not long ago. If I remember correctly you will be able to turn JIP off the same way we turn off Ai before the mission starts. If you elect to leave the Ai on then any incoming players will take those slots.

I personally think its a good thing, and ofcourse when any new game comes along the tards will be out in force, but as we have all been playing this game for a long time those tossers will be easy to spot and dealt with accordingly.

AA will not be a heck of alot different in game play to OFP,it will still be a hard game requiring teamwork and tactics so hopefully we will see the newbs either dissapear quickly or play the game as it should be played.

[robert(uk) 0]

AA will not be a heck of alot different in game play to OFP,it will still be a hard game requiring teamwork and tactics so hopefully we will see the newbs either dissapear quickly or play the game as it should be played.

Hehe, I hope so...

[CsonkaPityu 0]

I tried a bunch of games online and it's true, anonimity turns people into assholes most of the time. Never played OFP online though, but if the game is successful you'll see a lot of those teamkilling, hacking kids.

But i doubt arma would get a fanbase like a Blizzard game (a bit off topic but, if you wanna see a really messed up community read here: http://www.battle.net/forums/war3/board.aspx?forumName=war3-general , yea ppl like that i wouldn't welcome).

[NeMeSiS 11]

But i doubt arma would get a fanbase like a Blizzard game (a bit off topic but, if you wanna see a really messed up community read here: http://www.battle.net/forums/war3/board.aspx?forumName=war3-general , yea ppl like that i wouldn't welcome).

Hah, thats nothing compared to the bungee forums!

Ah well, OFP is mostly for people with more patience then the avarage unreal-tournament player, so it doesnt have a huge amount of teamkillers/cheaters/assholes, but still, 60% of the world is incapable of doing anything logical, and after 4,5 years there are still cheaters in OFP...

[whisper 0]

Having to implement these things via scripts would be a PITA. Especially if I wanted to setup a quick adhoc server - I don't want to be searching for, or writing, scripts to allow basic functions such as auto-balancing. Requiring scripts for basic server setups is the sort of thing that will kill MP for the Arma newbies.

Yes the mission makers should be able to script certain MP/JIP related events. The server owners should have the final say though with the ability, should they want it, to override those mission defaults.

Sorry, but no.

That scripter/Mission makers are allowed to give the possibility to server admin to do so, OK. And BIS to provide basics maps with this feature with release version.

But I think ultimate decision on how to handle JiP must remains in the hands of mission maker, ie he has scripting functions/Variables to control JiP behavior (reconnect as same unit/no JiP/reconnect in allowed list/etc...)

JiP, for coop, very important, even on private server. You're not all bored to have to restart each time some player has a connection issue?

[GBee 0]

Sorry, but no.

That scripter/Mission makers are allowed to give the possibility to server admin to do so, OK. And BIS to provide basics maps with this feature with release version.

But I think ultimate decision on how to handle JiP must remains in the hands of mission maker, ie he has scripting functions/Variables to control JiP behavior (reconnect as same unit/no JiP/reconnect in allowed list/etc...)

Actually, I more or less agree with you. My original post was badly phrased.

Mission makers should have control over how JIP is implemented in their missions.

What I really am fighting for, is a server option for skill auto-balancing. Now this doesn't mean teams should be equal in number for every mission, just that you wouldn't have a situation where a team of newbie players is pitted against a team of veterans. No one wants to be cannon fodder, left without a chance and veteran players should enjoy a challenge.

The benefit of this idea would be that mission makers could exercise control by implementing ratios. In a fairly standard mission teams would have a roughly equal balance of veteran/newbie players which is good for everyone. If their mission 'story' puts an inexperienced tank force up against veteran infantry then they could reflect that in the players. The difficulty of online game would keep pace with your abilities. I'm hope someone else can see the potential in this idea.

I'm not advocating any public stats tracking. The player doesn't ever have to know what their calculated skill is, although it would have to calculated/stored the client side .

This can't be done done entirely through scripts and would work best as a default setting built into the standard game, which is why I disagreed with lwlooz.

For clan games or in special circumstances it could be turned off.

[the unknown 0]

how about this.

make a option for the servers to turn it off in the same kind of way as the difficalty settings now.

and if they let the mission maker deside it plz let them make it gamelogics. i am a mission maker my self and i hate alt tabbing all the time to look up script names and more of that stuff. useing gamelogics whould save up a lot of work.

The Unknown

[Frantic 0]

sorry...wasnt able to read all posts, but i have a few thoughts about that too!

JIP is really nice, cause the long waiting times would be over then!

There should be a possibilty to aktivate the JIP for admins.

if both sides r even, then u have to wait till 2guys wanna join, so the sides still stay even.

if some guys disconnect, then the server should balance the teams by himself. But players with same tag shouldnt be draged to other side!

only a few thoughts about JIP!

[Cycloon 0]

JIP should definitely be an optional server setting.

[luemmel 20]

JIP should definitely be an optional server setting.

totally agreed!

[Jimmy reptile 0]

I was wondering about in game joining system used in AA. Players could join anytime and play missions like CTI without hours of waiting, which is good idea, but what about joining in cooperative missions? I think it would ruin whole coop type if new players would spawn in the start point any time they want. Coop in OFP is great with roles selection, briefing planning etc, so will it be in the classic style we know, or open for everyone?

[Guest Ti0n3r]

#lockjip

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Mission designer can decide... For example, he can decide that instead of joining the game, players can get in as observers.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]players can get in as observers

Yes, let them join as nasty mosquitos

It would be fun if players could take over an animal while they need to wait for a new mission in coop. I´m not only talking about the fancy seagull, but imagine you can take over a hawk and go hunt for some rabbits

[brataccas 0]

It would be fun if players could take over an animal while they need to wait for a new mission in coop. I´m not only talking about the fancy seagull, but imagine you can take over a hawk and go hunt for some rabbits

omfg awesome idea, or go as a deer or a butterfly and risk getting shot by the players

[GBee 0]

Can see a slight flaw in the plan. Already in OFP the dead player seagulls follow players giving away their position. Sometimes it's even done deliberately. Can you imagine being followed by all the animals of the game whilst trying to sneak up on an enemy position!?

[Garcia 0]

They're talking about coop, and coop is all players on one side, so players as animals can't give away others position to AI...of course it could be used to give away others position in P v P, but that should be up to the mission designer to prevent in some way...that is, if it would be possible to spawn into a animal...

[Spy17 1]

Or you put some AI teammates in the mission those can be taken over by others joining later.

Either you hold them a bit in the second line kind of reserve forces, or you use the AI fighting power

I think this will not be a problem.

[ade_mcc 0]

As long as the mission designer doesn't stop someone who has not actually died, only lost connection for whatever reason from re-joining then thats all fine.

[Placebo 29]

This older JIP thread has covered a few of the issues so I'll merge the new one into it, rather than having a new JIP thread every couple of months.