Next-Gen CTI

[Scrub 0]

CTI has been around for some time now, and has done wonders with the original OFP game engine.  With the updated engine, and the new capabilities (command interface, VD, high amount of players & AI), and the fact that the 'gamey' style of CTI has turned many off it's large appeal - I propose a discussion of what would take the best aspects of CTI's gameplay, and shift it into a more realistic method, ingame.

We (at least) need to reasonably define:

1. The best parts of CTI we wish to keep.

2. The 'game' elements that are not realistic and want to get rid of.

3. Methods of employing the 'game' elements in a more realistic way.

4. Everything else I missed  

*kickoff*

1. IMHO, I like the ordering of battle, the leading my squad into the important attacks.  And working with other players to coordinate efforts.

2. I don't like the buying of troops, and the scattered way territories are captured. (kinda like AI driven Capture the Flag)

3. Correcting the buying of troops... not sure.  

Holding captured territories: Have a neutral group present in territory to work with or defeat (roleplay?) and have a minimum of troops to hold (like maybe 6 as a number to thow out?), or it goes back to neutral and neutral troops start building up their numbers and fighting with the players units. something like that, anyway..

Next please  

(p.s. thanks heatseeker for the inspiration)

[gandalf the white 0]

Playing CTI over an area "the size of all OFP:r islands combined" sounds pretty interesting to me...

1. The best parts of CTI we wish to keep.

1. Mass warfare, thought about infrastruture,

2. The 'game' elements that are not realistic and want to get rid of.

none, really.

3. Methods of employing the 'game' elements in a more realistic way.

see below.

4. Everything else I missed

I'd like to be able to "steal" enemy technology.

---------

+ You can buy "propaganda vehicles" , that clear towns of resistance (or prevents them from spawning)

+A new (changed?) way to get supplies is per boat or plane! The routes could be mapped out by the commander.

Via a GUI you could load up choppers, planes and LCAC's in thesame way you load up a soldier: X soldiers? well that leaves X ammount of space free, more soldiers? or put in a vehicle? The type of transport determines the price, depending on capacity and "peed of delivery". If you have purchased blackhawks/chinooks you can also order them to be available for "ferry service", releaving the economic stress of your side.

Air Delivery could be made with stuff varying from a blackhawk, Chinook, C130. For the east this could be a MI8 , MI26 , or Antonov 124 (hey! russians have more experience with air cargo!

Infantry could be dropped via plane (fast)

small vehicles could be paradropped or plane lands and unloads (still fast)

tanks would have to be delivered by (for instance) a LCAC. (slow and vonurable)

When infantry has landed,or the armour has arrived (both have to be delivered within 500M of the base) they get switched to your command.

[canukausiuka 1]

1. The best parts of CTI we wish to keep.

- Large scale unscripted warfare

- Combined operations

2. The 'game' elements that are not realistic and want to get rid of.

- (This is my personal opinion on the type of CTI I'd like)

- "Buying" and "Upgrading" units

- Resistance in towns

- Money

3. Methods of employing the 'game' elements in a more realistic way.

- Limited force pool for both sides.

- Limited weapon pool for both sides.

- Limited "requisition points" - if you've played CC2, you know what I mean

- "requesition points" replenish slowly over time

4. Everything else I missed

- Better movement control system (look at CE2)

- Artillery and Indirect Fires

- Improved AI Cooperation

[zyklone 1]

One of the main new things that might be possible with the new JIP stuff is the ability to keep a battle going longer.

This could lead to a 30 vs 30 player battle being possible. With 12 AI in each group that'd be 720 units.

That should give lots of action even over a larger area. That might make it possible to decrease some of the importance of holding towns.

Without the towns and income currently it's just a matter of being able to move the front forward. Which in real war is suicide unless you are able to secure the land behind you also.

Perhaps the towns should be replaced with some sort of area of influence instead.

One thing to remember is that money is not a major part of the CTI game itself. It's just a way to punish a defensive enemy and reward an agressive one, one who tries to win.

Spending an entire game on defence and then making one lucky/rambo attack against the enemy base should not lead to a victory. If you don't have any way to secure the land you are fighting in victory is impossible.

[VerySolidSnake 0]

I think when towns are captured you should have the option of "Buying a Stronghold" for it, which once purchased, will place walls around the town, machinegun nests, mortars, the works. The defense will be ran by an AI team , making towns MUCH harder to take, and MUCH harder to lose.

[Antichrist 0]

I definitely want to see artillery support. Before you can use artillery you need to spend requisition points on it and after it is delivered place it on the map. Enemy can raid your artillery and destroy it. You can do the same with their artillery. Improved accuracy with LD etc. Limited ammo that you have to get with requistion points.

No more buying of vehicles and them randomly spawning on your base. Make transport planes for both sides, and make them either paradrop cargo at a specific location or land and unload it at the airport. Air units can fly in from outside the map.

Strategic interface for the commander (I am not sure if there is one yet, since I haven't played CTI for ages).

I might add several more things later.

[Scrub 0]

Now keep in mind some of you, the point is to move this to a more realistic type of game.  You want to dig in and make sandbag bunkers? You would probably have to get your AI on it (maybe use 'work' type animations and spawn an appropriate sandbag structure after a time limit or enough AI put 'Work Points' into it).

You want reinforcements? Maybe secure a harbor, or clear an LZ and get your convoys established.  Not sure how many units can be in-game at once, but if it's even 100 MP+AI and there is an escort command for a unit to guard a vehicle, it could get pretty interesting.

The point (I believe) most of the realism crowd wants to make, correct me if I'm wrong here, is that if you want something, you have to work for it, no tanks magically rolling off the assembly line after slotting your credit card - it may take some time.  If transports are used, then a built in realism factor would be that they can come under attack by the enemy.  Maybe if you get your c-130's shot down you don't get reinforcements that way.  (transportation points?)

keep 'em coming.  I hope to make a list in a week or so and update the first post.

Edit: Sorry to repeat what's been posted. it's late and the mind is fuzzy.. good ideas all

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Securing the captured land sounds like a very good idea. Maybe the Resistance Army that has been driven out of a city would set up camp near that lost city and keep attacking it until their new base has been destroyed as well.

Infantry reinforcements should be delivered to the main base only - they then need to be transported to the front line, being vulnerable to attacks in transit. There should be an "emergency backup" option that paradrops units into a hot LZ, but depending on scripting commands possible, this option should only be available to units currently under fire. It should also be very limited.

Reinforcements in general should be sent to purpose-built areas - I can live with paradrops of infantry (bigger reinforcements at airports?) but for vehicle supplies, they should come to airports (APCs, transport vehicles) and ports (tanks).

I like the idea of propaganda vehicles, they could turn the population against the holding resistance - if you help them, they join your army, if you don't help them, they will attack you once you got rid of the Resistance.

Another thing we should consider introducing - the need for ammo and food. Food will most likely have to be scripted, but ammo is definitely doable. I know you can just pick up weapons from the dead enemy, but I am not talking about small arms only, I also mean mines, RPG/LAWs, laser dets etc. Maybe the commander gets to hear what each unit wants, then the requested material is sent to the front.

Hardcode JIP for commanders.

[mattxr 9]

I think that CTI might already be implemented into Armed Assult becuase in the press release it says "Game modes which havent been found in any other game before" it could mean CTI?

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

More intelligent AI and combat theory:

I think that as soon as you capture a city, frendly AI should spawn in it, to defend the city. Its too easy to steal cities as it is now especially late game.

This will also help when building a persistant battle, because games will be longer.

Also, there should be more zones instead of just towns. You should be able to conquer territory as well.. But that shall work as defence instead of income. So when you have captured an area, AIs will spawn witch will stay and defend in that are. It will move like a front, so that the defence is concentrated in the areas which is longest away from homebase.

This means that you will have front lines, which is hard to pass through, but with stealth etc. You should be able to move small forces through the front line without being noticed. When capturing an enemy frontline, AIs will spawn near the borders to the new frontline. So you are actually pushing the frontline towards the enemy.

The commander shouldnt be able to controll the AI defences directly, but can assign points to the different zones. So if the commander think that an ongoing attack will take place in zone D5 for example, he will assign double points to it. The AIs will now automatically in realtime send reinforcements to the area. The AIs are vulnerable under transport, so be careful not to move around with the points too often.

Base building:

As other people have allready said - we need more logistics in the game and make it more dynamic. That will work great with persistant world by JIP.

First of all, I think infantry building and light vehicle buildings works great as it is. But i do think that you should be able to buy a barracks in major cities, so you can train infantry in them.

Heavier vehicles like the big tanks should be send in via helicoper or transport plane and then paradropped. Maybe you can make some bonus areas on the map, for example if you own the Air strip, you automatically get the large air technology.

[AtR 0]

Alot of good ideas i've read in here ! But i'll add something.... How about second Commander slot ( Executive Officer ) , because 200 sq. killometers can burn out one of them, and theres always the second to help out and make the life easier for the first.

[ziiip 1]

I think it would be a nice idea to hire a few civilians in towns to join the army for a while and work for your team. Their skill level would be lower, but also would be cheaper than requesting soldiers in form of paradrop or something.

And instead of resistance, different towns would be hold by police or terrorist groups. And police would cooperate with US, terrorists would cooperate with Russians, making town conquering easier in a way, but terrorists'd shoot US soldiers, and cops'd shoot Russians.

[Spoock 3]

60+ players and 200km2 island is very impresive and I would like ArmA in February 2006

[Metal Heart 0]

Where'd this 200km^2 bs come from? That'd be "only" 14.1km x 14.1 km.

Quote[/b] ]New huge sized battlefield (landmass exceeds that of all islands from Flashpoint & Resistance combined)

[Scrub 0]

Quote[/b] ]Ex-RoNiN Posted on Dec. 04 2005,05:01

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Infantry reinforcements should be delivered to the main base only - they then need to be transported to the front line, being vulnerable to attacks in transit.

Reinforcements in general should be sent to purpose-built areas - I can live with paradrops of infantry (bigger reinforcements at airports?) but for vehicle supplies, they should come to airports (APCs, transport vehicles) and ports (tanks).

Wow, good point. Not having an actual facility for reinforcements means you still are in a beach-head situation and can only get troops and material in a hap-hazard way. Meaning you can't necessarily commit massive amounts of troops, and need to change your fighting style to suit.

Nice....

Guerilla resupply anyone?

Quote[/b] ]More intelligent AI and combat theory:

I think that as soon as you capture a city, frendly AI should spawn in it, to defend the city. Its too easy to steal cities as it is now especially late game.

This will also help when building a persistant battle, because games will be longer.

Would better intelligence help with this? Maybe have better troop descriptions or reporting from your scouts?

[zyklone 1]

Me, I think the realism crowd should be mostly ignored in this.

They're after something they never can have. They won't like playing 'logistics guy' all day.

It's game, it has to be fun. COOPs are better for them.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

thats why i write that the AI will handle this.

[LtUlrich 0]

I wouldn't mind playing 'logistics guy' all day.

Or 'medical support guy' all day...  Perhaps medics should be restricted to players only.  They would have a seperate base and their capabilities could be increased from a field hospital with a jeep to an m113 ambulance to a blackhawk.  If nobody wants to head up the medical support team, then there will be no medical support in that game.

I would play 'repair guy' all day, too.

EDIT: Or I guess 'repair and salvage' guy would fit best.

Or 'recon guy', flying the A10 on limited-fuel unarmed sorties to try to locate enemy positions.  Any positions located aren't reported until a successful landing is accomplished.

And yes I would play 'mess guy' all day too; delivering MREs to various posts, depending on the soldiers who occupy those posts to get me in and out safely.

Maybe 'mail guy' - for extended deployments...  If a mail call gets to your post you and your men recieve a morale boost.

Just some thoughts.  I really like the logistics stuff.  CTI always bothered me (Where the hell did this soldier come from?  Where was he fifteen minutes ago?  In the womb?  The ground?) with the command-and-conquer style instant generation of forces in the middle of Everon.  I would say that this is an excellent opportunity to use something that was thoughtfully included in OFP but shamefully ignored:  Logistics support.

[Commando84 0]

i think cti is decent as it is, if there would be logistic support then it should be able to be votable before or ingame wich kind of cti rules should apply. I remember cti's where you had to buy 'em support vehicles to build say defensive structures like stationary guns , AA launchers. sandbags and stuff.

the Support vehicles could also be driven away and combined with a few tanks you got a battle group that can repair , refuel, rearm , heal whatever trucks you brought with you. And handled by skilled personnel and people that communicate maybe you can work your way through the lands I really would like to transport vehicles in transport ships and or C130's antonovs , mi26 or chinooks. I once played a cti where theere was capturable grounds on smal islands outside the main land and the enemies had moved there base to one such small island..

Oh if it was to be really Cnc like then when you have built the repair depot you could build , buy , order , ship another command vehicle so if one gets destroyed you got a backup and it also makes building buildings go a few secs faster the more of the command vehicles you own.

as it is now in mfcti and i think also crcti there is only be able to have one command vehicle and when its destroyed you can pretty much be done for the day usually

But i still like the idea if a skilled member or team goes behind enemy lines and plant satchel charges or do some hit & run tactics on the enemy base and enemy troop movements they can stall a foe that has much more cities under control and more tanks, choppers moving around..

another thing that i also like is that from a soldiers perspective it can take time to find a enemy base but if travelling with chopper or tank you just backtrack the red dots on the radar and you got the base located. But that usually works best on enemies that have many vehicles moving around.

[mahlkav 0]

One thing that's annoying me is the problem to remove "move" squares, Target diamonds and all these sorts of help options. Should be simple, but isn't.

[llauma 0]

One thing that's annoying me is the problem to remove "move" squares, Target diamonds and all these sorts of help options. Should be simple, but isn't.

What's not simple about it? You just change a 1 to a 0 in the server config and you get rid of them.

[Metal Heart 0]

I think in KICTI the reinforcements arrive by air transports, I tried to play it once but only got a bunch of noobs joining in, disconnecting 2 minutes from start. Also the armies are much bigger.

http://www.ofpec.com/yabbse....d=23097

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Never tried that, but sounds interesting.

I still think that "front lines" will work great... it will be cool knowing that you are in "enemy territory" maybe with ai-patrolls etc.

[Scrub 0]

Metal Heart, sounds like this LaKing guy has it down... I'm going to try and invite him to listen and maybe take some requests, if that's even necessary.. He seems quite on top of it.

[Cam51 0]

Me and Karrillion have designed a larger scale CTI style mission called RWS (real war simulator). It currently uses the AEC island (all 3 stock islands in 1).

Towns must be taken in order, so to prevent the rambos from flying across the map and taking 3/4 of the island by themselves.

Resources are limited. Each side has a inventory list, when a column is empty, that unit is depleted.

Towns are taken by supply trucks, which must be escourted into the towns and protected while a fictional AI squad breeches and clears the towns HQ.

Capturing certain towns gives you access to certain units.

Units are not "BOUGHT" they are "DEPLOYED". No need in gathering money, b.c there is none.

Secondary objective are on each island (ie: Radio Tower, and Radar Station). Radio tower gives you the ability to scramble aircraft at the islands airfield, and enables the spy satalite. Radar lets you see all incoming aircraft surrounding your sides island.

Roles are assigned. Choose the role of infantry and gain access to all infantry soldiers and equipment. Choose Tanker and rule the land.

The Commander assigns each person a role, and gives them deployment power or not. (ie: Joe1212 keeps deploying tanks, but your inventory is running low. Just click, and now he cant deploy a thing unless you want him too).

Forced accelerated time.

A large list of ships to choose from, for kick ass navy battles.

It is 99% complete, I am just trying to see if we can drop the the number of addons down. Or create 1 .pbo with all addons in it and release it together.