USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[Fox '09 14]

I think on The Young Turks current show one of the panelists made a good point. Even if he didn't write it, he needs to donate the million dollars he made off of those letters to the NAACP or something. That , or try his best to find who wrote it and make it public. I don't think he wrote them, I don't care, but a presidential candidate needs to take responsibility and action, no matter who they are.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

-KBaMYP6DaI

[sagitarius_2k 10]

Is this somekind of joke??

U.S. District Court Rules Iran Behind 9/11 Attacks

_http://www.bloomberg.com/article/2011-12-23/aYoOcZ6NT3wo.html

U.S. District Court Rules Iran Behind 9/11 Attacks

 PR Newswire

 NEW YORK, December 23, 2011

NEW YORK, December 23, 2011 /PRNewswire/ --

A federal district court in Manhattan yesterday entered a historic ruling that
reveals new facts about Iran's support of al Qaeda in the 9/11 attacks.  U.S.
District Judge George B. Daniels ruled yesterday that Iran and Hezbollah
materially and directly supported al Qaeda in the September 11, 2001 attacks
and are legally responsible for damages to hundreds of family members of 9/11
victims who are plaintiffs in the case.  

Judge Daniels had announced his ruling in Havlish,   et   al.   v.   bin  
Laden,   et   al. , in open court on Thursday, December 15, 2011, following a
three-hour courtroom presentation by the families' attorneys.  Judge Daniels
entered a written Order of Judgment yesterday backed by 53 pages of detailed
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law.  

Fiona Havlish, whose husband Donald perished in the World Trade Center North
Tower on 9/11 said, "This is a historic day.  For ten years we've wanted the
truth to be known about who was responsible for our losses.  Now we have that
answer."  

Ellen Saracini, the wife of United Airlines 175 pilot Victor Saracini, which
the hijackers crashed into the WTC South Tower, said after the hearing last
Thursday, "We just came from Judge Daniels' court where he ruled in favor of
holding accountable those who perpetrated the attacks of 9/11... I just smiled
up to Victor and I said we're still thinking about you ... we're there for you
... we'll always be there for you.  But today's very special."

In Havlish,   et   al.   v.   bin   La den,   et   al. , Judge Daniels held
that the Islamic Republic of Iran, its Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Hosseini
Khamenei, former Iranian president Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, and Iran's
agencies and instrumentalities, including, among others, the Iranian
Revolutionary Guard Corps ("IRGC"), the Iranian Ministry of Intelligence and
Security ("MOIS"), and Iran's terrorist proxy Hezbollah, all materially aided
and supported al Qaeda before and after 9/11.  

"The families have waited a very long time for this day and they have been
through a lot.  So I was greatly relieved that the families received an answer
to the question that they asked me ten years ago: they asked who was the
responsible party?  How did this happen?  Today a federal court judge has said
that a principal responsible party is the Islamic Republic of Iran," said
Thomas E. Mellon, Jr. of Doylestown, Pennsylvania, law firm of Mellon Webster
& Shelly, the lead attorney for the Havlish plaintiffs.

The evidence was developed over a seven-year international investigation by
the Havlish attorneys who pursued the 9/11 Commission's recommendation
regarding an apparent link between Iran, Hezbollah, and the 9/11 hijackers,
following the Commission's own eleventh-hour discovery of significant National
Security Agency ("NSA") intercepts: "We believe this topic requires further
investigation by the U.S. government."  9/11 Commission Report, p. 241.  The
Havlish evidence included sworn testimony and affidavits from the following:

 * Ten expert witnesses including three former 9/11 Commission staff members,
   two former CIA case officers, two investigative journalists, and an Iran
   analyst who has testified in 25 cases involving Iranian terrorism.
 * Three Iranian defectors who were operatives of MOIS and the IRGC.  Witness
   X, whose dramatic testimony was previously filed under seal, was revealed
   to be Abolghasem Mesbahi, a former MOIS operative in charge of Iran's
   espionage operations in Western Europe.  Judge Daniels found that Mesbahi
   has testified in numerous prosecutions of Iranian and Hezbollah
   terrorists, including the Mykonos case in Germany and the AMIA case in
   Argentina, and found to be highly reliable and credible.  Judge Daniels
   also credited Mesbahi's testimony that he received messages during the
   summer of 2001 from inside the Iranian government that an Iranian
   contingency plan for unconventional warfare against the U.S. called "
   Shaitan dar Atash " had been activated.  "This is compelling proof that
   Iran was deeply involved in the 9/11 conspiracy," said Tim Fleming, lead
   investigative attorney for the Havlish group.  

Included among Judge Daniels' findings in Havlish are the following:

 * Members of the 9/11 Commission staff testified that Iran aided the
   hijackers by concealing their travel through Iran to access al Qaeda
   training camps in Afghanistan.  Iranian border inspectors refrained from
   stamping the passports of 8 to 10 of the 9/11 hijackers because evidence
   of travel through Iran would have prevented the hijackers from obtaining
   visas at U.S. embassies abroad or gaining entry into the United States.
    The 9/11 Commission Report addressed these facts and called for further
   investigation.  9/11 Commission Report at pp. 240-41.
 * Expert and U.S. government evidence also confirmed that Iran facilitated
   the escape of al Qaeda leaders and members from the U.S. invasion of
   Afghanistan into Iran and provided safe haven inside Iran after 9/11.
 * Abolghasem Mesbahi testified he was part of an IRGC-MOIS task force that
   designed contingency plans for unconventional warfare against the U.S.,
   code-named " Shaitan   dar   Atash " ("Satan in Flames") which included
   crashing hijacked passenger airliners into the World Trade Center, the
   Pentagon, and the White House.  During the weeks before 9/11, Mesbahi
   received three coded messages from a source inside Iran's government
   indicating that the Shaitan   dar   Atash plan had been activated.  
 * Mesbahi also testified that in 2000 Iran used front companies to obtain a
   Boeing 757-767-777 flight simulator for training the terrorists.  Due to
   U.S. trade sanctions, Iran has never had any Boeing 757-767-777 aircraft,
   but all the airplanes hijacked on 9/11 were Boeing 757 or 767 aircraft.
 * A May 14, 2001 memorandum from inside the Iranian government demonstrating
   that Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, was aware of the impending
   attacks and instructing intelligence operatives to restrict communications
   to existing contacts with al Qaeda's Ayman al Zawahiri and Hizballah's
   Imad Mughniyah.  
 * Documents obtained from German federal prosecutors showing that 9/11
   coordinator Ramzi Binalshihb traveled to Iran in January 2001 on his way
   to Afghanistan to brief Osama bin Laden on the plot's progress.
 * Evidence from the 9/11 Commission Report that a "senior Hezbollah
   operative," which the Havlish evidence identifies as Hezbollah terrorist
   chief Imad Mughniyah, coordinated activities in Saudi Arabia and was
   present (or his associate) on flights the hijackers took to and from
   Beirut and Iran.  9/11 Commission Report at pp. 240-41.  Mughniyah, a
   longtime agent of Iran, orchestrated a string of terror operations against
   the U.S. and Israel during the 1980s and 1990s.  He was assassinated in
   Syria in February of 2008.

Attorneys emphasized that it is important to understand that Iran, Hezbollah,
and al Qaeda formed a terror alliance in the early 1990s.  The attorneys cited
their national security and intelligence experts, including Dr. Patrick
Clawson, Dr. Bruce Tefft, Clare Lopez, Kenneth Timmerman, Dr. Ronen Bergman,
Edgar Adamson, and 9/11 Commission staff members Dietrich Snell, Dr. Daniel
Byman, and Janice Kephart, as well as the published writings of Robert Baer,
to explain how the pragmatic terror leaders overcame the Sunni-Shi'a divide in
order to confront the U.S. (the "Great Satan") and Israel (the "Lesser
Satan").  Iran and Hezbollah then provided training to members of al Qaeda in,
among other things, the use of explosives to destroy large buildings.  The
Iran-Hezbollah-al Qaeda alliance led to terror strikes against the U.S. at
Khobar Towers, Saudi Arabia (1996), the simultaneous U.S. embassy bombings in
Kenya and Tanzania (1998), and the USS   Cole (2000).  Shortly after the Cole
attack, Iran was facilitating the international travel of the 9/11 hijackers.

"It was a wonderful day.  A great day where the truth was finally revealed in
a court of law with strong, strong evidence.  The judge allowed us to put on
and present all the evidence that we had filed directly or under seal and he
accepted it and made a ruling in our favor," said Dennis Pantazis, one of the
Havlish attorneys.  "Now we go on to prove damages for each one of the family
members," he added.  

The case is Fiona   Havlish,   et   al   v.   Usama   Bin   Laden,   et   al,
03-CV-9848 (GBD), and is part of the consolidated proceeding In   Re  
Terrorist   Attacks   on   Septemb er   11,   2001, Civil Action No. 03 MDL
1570 (GBD).  

For full story information, background documents, and links to broadcast
quality footage, including soundbites from Havlish attorneys and plaintiffs,
please visit the case website at http://www.Iran911case.com .

Contact: Thomas E. Mellon, Jr., Esq., +1-215-348-7700, Timothy B. Fleming,
Esq, +1-202-263-3683, Dennis G. Pantazis, Esq., +1-205-314-0500, Walter Batty,
Esq., +1-610-544-6791

[froggyluv 2136]

@Hans Ludwig video: Wonder if that African American is familiar with the ideology, race baiting/pandering of Ron Paul's Aid and Ludwig von Mises Institute founder Llewellyn Rockwell, Jr.

From Libertarian Website Reason.com

Financial records from 1985 and 2001 show that Rockwell, Paul's congressional chief of staff from 1978 to 1982, was a vice president of Ron Paul & Associates, the corporation that published the Ron Paul Political Report and the Ron Paul Survival Report. The company was dissolved in 2001. During the period when the most incendiary items appeared—roughly 1989 to 1994—Rockwell and the prominent libertarian theorist Murray Rothbard championed an open strategy of exploiting racial and class resentment to build a coalition with populist "paleoconservatives," producing a flurry of articles and manifestos whose racially charged talking points and vocabulary mirrored the controversial Paul newsletters recently unearthed by The New Republic. To this day Rockwell remains a friend and advisor to Paul—accompanying him to major media appearances; promoting his candidacy on the LewRockwell.com blog; publishing his books; and peddling an array of the avuncular Texas congressman's recent writings and audio recordings.

But a source close to the Paul presidential campaign told reason that Rockwell authored much of the content of the Political Report and Survival Report. "If Rockwell had any honor he'd come out and I say, ‘I wrote this stuff,'" said the source, who asked not to be named because Paul remains friendly with Rockwell and is reluctant to assign responsibility for the letters. "He should have done it 10 years ago."

Indeed, quite cowardly. I always thought Walker was exaggerating when stating they pander to the racist element...

The most detailed description of the strategy came in an essay Rothbard wrote for the January 1992 Rothbard-Rockwell Report, titled "Right-Wing Populism: A Strategy for the Paleo Movement." Lamenting that mainstream intellectuals and opinion leaders were too invested in the status quo to be brought around to a libertarian view, Rothbard pointed to David Duke and Joseph McCarthy as models for an "Outreach to the Rednecks," which would fashion a broad libertarian/paleoconservative coalition by targeting the disaffected working and middle classes. (Duke, a former Klansman, was discussed in strikingly similar terms in a 1990 Ron Paul Political Report.) These groups could be mobilized to oppose an expansive state, Rothbard posited, by exposing an "unholy alliance of 'corporate liberal' Big Business and media elites, who, through big government, have privileged and caused to rise up a parasitic Underclass, who, among them all, are looting and oppressing the bulk of the middle and working classes in America."

Telling.

Full article is here.

http://reason.com/archives/2008/01/16/who-wrote-ron-pauls-newsletter

Edited December 27, 2011 by froggyluv

[walker 0]

Hi all

Ron Paul is first of all a Washington big government politician. It is an invariable fact that those who seek political power always are. He never has been and never will be a maverick he just fakes it on bills he knows he cannot affect in order to pander to the foolish and milk their vote.

It just the usual Republican party trick of you can fool some of the people all the time. There are enough crazy McCain ladies to go around and in some states there are enough of them to get you elected.

Kind regards walker

[sputnik monroe 102]

Oh... poor, poor walker. I remember during the last election how you drooled and fawned over Obama like a horny school girl, and now four years later you have the comical timing to say things about Paul like "He never has been and never will be a maverick"... blah blah.

Coming from some one who was one of the "second coming!" crowd for a Chicago political establishment dweeb like Obama a few years ago, it just rings hollow.

I love how your post read as just %110 hyper charged political propaganda. You're writing style is so grating, you begin to make people like Michael Moore and Michael Savage look liked reasoned debatable open individuals. That's creepy, but I honestly think I could have a more coherent balanced conversation with those two mad men than I could you.

You're a flaming politico neo-commissar. I use to find your post at least mildly amusing to read, now they just make me shake my head and utter softly aloud, one word... "pathetic".

The condescending smarmy tone you take in every post, spouting off your musings as if they are some sort of mutually agreed truth or conventional wisdom it's really very disturbing.

Example of your tone: "Hello all, every one is coming around to my way of thinking after an article pertaining to X was released today. Even now many are taking to the streets over Y and Z." Fill XYZ with any combination of Neo-con haliburton, bleeding-heart libertatian, ponzi, austerity, capitalism is broken blah blah blah.

You are so easily parodied that in my eye's you are nothing more than parody living incarnate. You've replaced The Onion and the Colbert Report, congratulations.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Wild new fundraising gimmick: Slay a dragon for Ron Paul

Forget those tired robocalls and formula e-mails seeking campaign checks: A supporter of GOP 2012 presidential hopeful Ron Paul has come up with a wild new way to raise cash for his candidate.

His pitch: “Slay a Dragon for Ron Paul.â€

San Francisco game developer Alex Beltramo, an avid Paul supporter, is inviting voters and fellow Paulistas to test his fantasy role-playing game, Dungeoneers, while donating to the Texas congressman’s presidential effort.

For every player who slays the dragon in the game, Beltramon is putting in $5 to the Ron Paul “Super Brochure†campaign, a team fundraising effort.

http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2011/12/wild-new-fundraising-gimmick-slay-a-dragon-for-ron-paul/

http://www.dungeoneers.com

[mrcash2009 0]

Is this somekind of joke??

U.S. District Court Rules Iran Behind 9/11 Attacks

_http://www.bloomberg.com/article/2011-12-23/aYoOcZ6NT3wo.html

I haven't seen this as a joke at the moment.

But, it might as well be, I really wish people would see the amounts of utter bullshit that are being peddled to kickstart the next war that was planned years ago.

Iran like Iraq, like afghanistan, like Syria will be tied to anything that can justify smashing the shit out of them, its pretty awful, but, true.

[Fox '09 14]

I haven't seen this as a joke at the moment.

But, it might as well be, I really wish people would see the amounts of utter bullshit that are being peddled to kickstart the next war that was planned years ago.

Iran like Iraq, like afghanistan, like Syria will be tied to anything that can justify smashing the shit out of them, its pretty awful, but, true.

I don't think the court decision is necessarily war propaganda. I strongly believe that there needs to be another 9/11 commission , given the commissions head ties to the bush administration, and how the commission had to fight to get pieces put in the report. And there's a paper trail to saudi arabia that nobody wants to touch. Whether we should act on it is a different question, but one the neocons will answer for us.

[binkster 0]

Oh... poor, poor walker. I remember during the last election how you drooled and fawned over Obama like a horny school girl, and now four years later you have the comical timing to say things about Paul like "He never has been and never will be a maverick"... blah blah.

Coming from some one who was one of the "second coming!" crowd for a Chicago political establishment dweeb like Obama a few years ago, it just rings hollow.

I love how your post read as just %110 hyper charged political propaganda. You're writing style is so grating, you begin to make people like Michael Moore and Michael Savage look liked reasoned debatable open individuals. That's creepy, but I honestly think I could have a more coherent balanced conversation with those two mad men than I could you.

You're a flaming politico neo-commissar. I use to find your post at least mildly amusing to read, now they just make me shake my head and utter softly aloud, one word... "pathetic".

The condescending smarmy tone you take in every post, spouting off your musings as if they are some sort of mutually agreed truth or conventional wisdom it's really very disturbing.

Example of your tone: "Hello all, every one is coming around to my way of thinking after an article pertaining to X was released today. Even now many are taking to the streets over Y and Z." Fill XYZ with any combination of Neo-con haliburton, bleeding-heart libertatian, ponzi, austerity, capitalism is broken blah blah blah.

You are so easily parodied that in my eye's you are nothing more than parody living incarnate. You've replaced The Onion and the Colbert Report, congratulations.

I dont think anyone could have said this any better!!! I feel the same. I used to be amused by his post untill the liberal conspiracies started showing itself.

[Fox '09 14]

liberal conspiracies? tell me all about them.

[mrcash2009 0]

I don't think the court decision is necessarily war propaganda. I strongly believe that there needs to be another 9/11 commission ' date=' given the commissions head ties to the bush administration, and how the commission had to fight to get pieces put in the report. And there's a paper trail to saudi arabia that nobody wants to touch. Whether we should act on it is a different question, but one the neocons will answer for us.[/quote']

Well the whole 9/11 issues aside, we have had 11 years and now Iran is in the cross hairs we get trickles of 9/11 links, so "for me" its hook line and sinker war propaganda, the last 11 years have been swimming in it.

If we were landing on the moon now, I would expect Iran to be threatening to blow it up soon after in the media.

[Fox '09 14]

unfortunately there is a lot of truth to that :(

[sudayev 27]

!

'connection problems button' at work. This young man had to be censored.

[mrcash2009 0]

I saw that today, cant have someone in a position to get people thinking saying things that would get people questioning on a format that would reach allot of people to think ... that wouldn't be sporting enough :rolleyes:

Found this 1950's cartoon, which when looking at things now is very interesting to reflect on:

-CjrZNi49bE

[walker 0]

Hi all

Hmm, Israel has told the Pentagon to send US toops to the area, so some hope.

Kind Regards walker

[Fox '09 14]

key word: "told"

I hope nothing happens between Iran and the US. If Israel attacks Iran we shouldn't be there to protect them, we've got enough wars and enough problems.

[rangerpl 13]

Hi all

Hmm, Israel has told the Pentagon to send US toops to the area, so some hope.

Kind Regards walker

Right, it's not like deploying troops to Muslim countries only serves to further enrage militant Islamist radicals and motivate them to carry out attacks against Americans.

Nope, not at all.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

OJBh3OFgLtU

[walker 0]

Hi all

Everyday the 1% and Bankers make America sound more and more like North Korea.

LA City Attorney to Occupy: pay for brainwashing lessons on limits of free speech and we'll drop the charges

By Cory Doctorow at 6:00 am Friday, Jan 6

The Los Angeles City Attorney's Office has offered Occupy protesters a get-out-of-jail card: all they need to do to skip their court dates is pay $355 for private "free speech lessons" where they will be taught a highly selective version of Constitutional law that holds that the First Amendment doesn't include the kind of protest they enjoy...

http://boingboing.net/2012/01/06/la-city-attorney-to-occupy-pa.html

As always follow the link to the original article in full

Dark Days indeed...

Kind Regards Walker

[nodunit 397]

Surely thats a joke..surely...please?

Christ, protect IP and SOPA, a bill that could potentially detain US citizens by military without trial, explanation and indefinately..and now this? I guess it's time to change that "proud to be an american" song since we'll no longer be free.

Edited January 6, 2012 by NodUnit

[nettrucker 143]

That's a nice one

Seven lies in under 2 minutes

UErR7i2onW0

[Tonci87 163]

If only he had done all this....

He wuld have been the president that took away power from the lobbyists and the companys behind them and returned it to the american people where it belongs...

[nodunit 397]

I thought for sure he'd tell congress to shove it for that billl but I guess not..no true 'american' would even think to sign such a thing.

I guess the question now is when will people learn the difference between a nationalist, and a patriot and when the civil war for our liberties will begin because it's not looking all that bright..I'm sure our forefathers would be just oh so proud of the US today..

For the record I'm not speaking out against the US, I am a citizen but I guess you could say my spirit and moral is being broken, I knew most politicians were bastards but I always thought that nobody would dare cross the lines they have recently, because it would be the worst thing you could do, far worse than anything any 'terrorist' in a foreign country could do, the comparison of bombing a building or destroying a state is nothing compared to destroying our foundations, in essence they who did ARE the biggest terrorists we could possibly know.

But perhaps more dissapointing than that is the response to it, the air of no care ..I'd rather live my life in fear of question that there may be a terrorist living next door and retain my freedom, than live in fear that my government would abuse power and arrest anyone who they want. Many people seem to think that "oh well don't do anything wrong and you won't have anything to fear" but it's the principle of the matter, the principle that this is not the united states that should be. The mindset of the government is becoming no better than the dictatorships they supposedly fight against.

Edited January 7, 2012 by NodUnit

[nettrucker 143]

The problem in the whole world is that the mainstream media is controlled by power structures all over the world. TV is the greatest tool to execute mass manipulation of the public opinion. People who don't do research on the Internet have no clue what's going on and even if people do research the very thought, about what is happening, is so incredible that your mind struggles to accept the events after you have connected all the dots.

It's so complex in its various ramifications that it's really scary. the world elite is accelarating the speed to gain total control because their agenda is no secret anymore. Therefore SOPA.

Worst is that the USA is governed by the lobbyists which only think in terms of profit and they influence the whole world with their actions. I've good friends in the USA and I'm very much concerned about them.

The American constitution is not relevant anymore to Politicians. They have taken an oath which is completely worthless because they are betraying the American people for decades now.