Interface discussion

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I think a better solution would be if a buttons tooltip's string could be built via structuredText, and that all gui types could support the use of tooltip instead of only buttons. Hover over a servers "Players: nnn,nnnn,nn" field, and a tooltip comes up showing all players on all teams etc. We could have floating tooltips with tables, linebreaks, formattings, headings, and images, instad of a single line of text.

If I now want to build a "button" using nice text and images, I have to put a structuralText element and an invisible button containing only the mouse event and tooltip. I'm not a guru on scripting though, so maybe I'm overcomplicating things.

[mrcash2009 0]

This thread more than likely has this covered but im just brain dumping as Im reading here:

High Command:

The ability to select the menu for setting the waypoint information/settings before you place it via right click, so you can set it just before placement.

The option of when placing the first way point for unit to set them to "hold" ... in which case they wont automatically carry out the way point task and move right away. Then in "hold" mode and you have placed your way-points and settings ... your right click on the unit and select "proceed".

Well, pretty much what Chain Of Command COC/CEX did so very well indeed in A1 :)

A hard-coded to the engine implementation of "hybrid command" script, (to add units under your command to High command & back again on the fly).

Editor:

Some kind of ammo box creation section and window to make up ammo boxes before placing them & also the ability to have a drop down section for gear on units (so you can graphically go through classes and select instead of script / addweapon text way).

Edited July 10, 2010 by mrcash2009

[The_Nexus 10]

It would be nice if there will be the radio sounds and spotting system with the clock from Operation Arrowhead for default arma 2 with the next patch...

[50.cal 10]

Please just disregard this idea if it has already been mentioned as I wasn't motivated to go trough the 28 pages of this thread.

From my point of view it can get sometimes a bit confusing to control large groups of vehicles and I can't count how many times I've commanded a "all disembark" instead of "all move there".

...and then you're gone for 10 min reorganising that mess provided you're just next to the group... I know you see what I mean ;-)

Also I thought it would be way more convenient to have only 1 icon per vehicle and an "unload" quick command access instead of disembark.

Exemple:

You have 3 vehicles. Each vehicle requires at least 1 driver to be operated. The remaining free positions are shown on the vehicle icon including the commander and gunners positions as well as the free cargo positions available.

Now as soon as the 9 crews have boarded the 3 vehicles they become vehicle 1, 2 and 3.

Then just add an "unload" command to the vehicle in order to make the pax in cargo disembark when required instead of a disembark command that make everybody including the crew to disembark.

Like that when you request vehicle nr 1 to unload, all units inside that vehicle will disembark except the crew in driver commander and gunners positions.

Of course the "disembark" command should stay available in the advanced command menu.

This would make it much easier to command large groups of vehicles.

Now I'm not sure the engine is able to handle that kind of sub groups but if there's a way to make it work that way it would really enhance the game!

[EricM 0]

If only you could MERGE (or split) individual units into groups on the fly and then command those groups as if they were single units, that would be grand and would reduce much of the clutter.

We almost have all the pieces here already (coloured teams, high command, quick menu), but they just don't talk to each others.

In Battlezone or Homeworld in their time it was working great from what I remember : select units 1 to X, then press shift F1 for instance and all the individual icons are merged into group 1 icon, which you can then command as a simple unit).

[dissaifer 10]

I'm not sure if someone has said this but, I did play operation flashpoint dragon rising for about 3 days before I realized how bad it was...

anyway, they have a very simple radial interface that I was impressed with. You just bring up the command with a single button push then select the things you need with the mouse... it is simple and quick. I think BIS should take a look at it as a possible option.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I'm familiar from the 3D world what I think is a good radial design. I've proposed some models and methods, but the general consensus seems to be the concept isn't good. The radial in OFP DR was seriously flawed in it's operational design, and not what I'd want to see in this game. I think the devs even admitted that in some post or interview I read.

[dissaifer 10]

Really that is shocking that the devs didn't think it was a good design.

The reason I think it is a good design was because there was 1 button to bring up the commands and then it was just clicking from there. 1 button is easy to learn, reading and clicking from there is also easy.

The problem I have with arma is there are really only two ways to get commands across the context (spacebar) method, which isn't horrible, but definitely isn't fool proof (say you need stealth - can't do that with spacebar) and the awkward menu selection by numbers.

Spacebar, again, is okay, but often you need the precision of the menu commands. And here are where I feel the problems start. You have to know the command selections by heart - as in - have them memorized. That is good and all but if you stop playing for a few months and come back you have to re-memorize the command menu. The other problem is that you have to take your fingers away from the normal move keys. I don't know about you, but in a panic fire situation, I don't tend to put my hands exactly back to where they were on the keyboard.

I'm rambling but basically my points are that I shouldn't have to memorize the command selections to issue commands and the less different buttons to push the better.

On a different note it dawned on me... why can't we change the color, size, and type of interface icons? Having a huge set of neon green arrows to close the door really takes me out of the game and is distracting from all the great art work that went into the rest of the game.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Sometimes you need to test an idea over time to see how it works. When that time is passed, it's too late to do radical changes. And that could very well turn out be the case in my radial system too.

Well I've played since OFP, and I'm still having problems memorizing the number, or even hitting the right numbers. :)

Some of those things can be changed using addons. Look up proper (I think) mods but kju.

[nkenny 1057]

On a different note it dawned on me... why can't we change the color, size, and type of interface icons? Having a huge set of neon green arrows to close the door really takes me out of the game and is distracting from all the great art work that went into the rest of the game.

Because its not intuitive when you are close enough to open doors? Much like the 'hunt for the gear/first aid option on dead/dying players dance' or 'can I get the option to board the airplane now jig'

Seriously. Arma2's interface is horrible. The action menu does not lack for options-- but its cumbersome at best of times. I mean how many times have you FAILED to get into a car and instead plant a democharge or drawn a sidearm?

This is terrible design. And so painfully unecessary as good UI consumes no extra CPU cycles nor demands no additional graphical rendering. All it needs is some forethought.

-k

---------- Post added at 06:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 AM ----------

If only you could MERGE (or split) individual units into groups on the fly and then command those groups as if they were single units, that would be grand and would reduce much of the clutter.

We almost have all the pieces here already (coloured teams, high command, quick menu), but they just don't talk to each others.

In Battlezone or Homeworld in their time it was working great from what I remember : select units 1 to X, then press shift F1 for instance and all the individual icons are merged into group 1 icon, which you can then command as a simple unit).

This.

Fireteams

: Give me a graphical user interface to combine/stack F<soldier>s and create fireteams.

: Give me a graphical user interface that lets me rightclick to sort equipment.

: Give me a Ghost Recon alike interface to move them around (with waypoints) and create cover arcs.

ROE

Also the combat modes don't perform the role advertised, with the notable exception of SAFE mode I guess. Stealth does not make the unit more stealth as the AI will still SPRINT (huge signature) from cover to cover. Danger may make the AI prefer cover... but as long as the AI is willing to stand around (and also look the wrong way) the combat survival gains a minescule increase.

Turns out the most effective way of increasing their survivability is to FORCE crouch mode when in contact-- and prone when sneaking up on things.

: Give me ROE options that actually perform as advertised.

Pathfinding and formations

While the ability to movme across the entire map is very impressive... its all forr nought if the AI cannot follow me through some areas. Certain holes in fences. Down certain streets... and so on. All which prompt the AI for a mad dash to stay in formation-- which often translates into so many casualties.

: Give me AI that follows me SLAVISHLY.

Formations are neat and certainly look good. Problem is the AI is MORE concerned with staying in formation than he is shooting the enemy. I've lost count of how many times I've seen the AI compromise the unit or outright die because it was attempting to uphold a (potentially) useless formation.

: Give me AI that follows ultra-soft and flexible formations-- particularly when in combat.

etc.

-k

[Hellhound 10]

Oke here's a good UI (and very simple) suggestion for BIS, to help guys that are new to the game.

In the editor in the module section , i'd like to see the modules that require syncing to have (F5) behind the module name, so people know they have to sync it in order to get it working.

[Flash Thunder 10]

Oke here's a good UI (and very simple) suggestion for BIS, to help guys that are new to the game.

In the editor in the module section , i'd like to see the modules that require syncing to have (F5) behind the module name, so people know they have to sync it in order to get it working.

Thats an excellent idea.

+1

[dmarkwick 261]

Pathfinding and formations

While the ability to movme across the entire map is very impressive... its all forr nought if the AI cannot follow me through some areas. Certain holes in fences. Down certain streets... and so on. All which prompt the AI for a mad dash to stay in formation-- which often translates into so many casualties.

: Give me AI that follows me SLAVISHLY.

Formations are neat and certainly look good. Problem is the AI is MORE concerned with staying in formation than he is shooting the enemy. I've lost count of how many times I've seen the AI compromise the unit or outright die because it was attempting to uphold a (potentially) useless formation.

: Give me AI that follows ultra-soft and flexible formations-- particularly when in combat.

etc.

-k

Formations definately needs a rethink :) in particular two main problems arise:

1. No way to change spacing between units.

2. Formation tries to change orientation at every enemy callout (as evidenced by the never-still clock orientation).

Changing unit spacing sounds to me like a reasonably simple fix, just have two new commands, increase and decrease spacing.

The formation trying to orient itself problem, well I can *sort* of see why it's happening, but in complex situations it means that your formation is constantly shuffling about every time a new enemy is seen. I think the clock should always be oriented at either average direction of movement over x meters, or next waypoint direction. If the squad leader needs to force a change of clock direction & thus formation orientation then he can place a waypoint, simulating a command to do the same.

And, I agree about the need for the squad to sometimes slavishly follow my lead :) in fact I might recommend a new formation type, follow my lead where each unit in turn will follow exactly the footsteps of the leader.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Changing unit spacing sounds to me like a reasonably simple fix, just have two new commands, increase and decrease spacing.

Where would you put those commands? The number system has exceeded its limits already. Action menu? Inconsistent in my view. There is also a number of scripted approaches to solve certain problems. Tighten and loosen up may not be on of them, but "copy my stance" or "not up" or "not prone" might be.

Turns out the most effective way of increasing their survivability is to FORCE crouch mode when in contact-- and prone when sneaking up on things.

Uhm, yeah, I think that is the general idea actually, at least for sneaking. I don't consider stealth mode to be same as sneak, but a certain way to use cover. It will also affect route planning greatly.

The biggest problem is there isn't enough room to allow changes, and few seems to be willing to have changes that gives us that room.

[dmarkwick 261]

Where would you put those commands? The number system has exceeded its limits already. Action menu? Inconsistent in my view.

It probably reflects more on the limitations of using the number keys than the idea itself :) I generally favour using an expandable menu system for these command structures myself, using the mouse to choose each menu and sub-branch menu. As it stands now we're limited to 10 command categories and 10 sub-commands/command categories within that. As armA2+ continues to get more complex, with the possibility of custom commands, I think this limitation needs to be addressed.

[nkenny 1057]

Bleh.

Give us ONE button with a set of under-tabs that lets us sort all our 'admin' tasks.

One button w/sub pages:

: Personal Admin such as current inventory, equipment settings, and radio/comms

: Map and Navigation. Just like the map right now.

: Squad Admin such as creating fireteams, custom formations, ROE, etc.

TAB button is nice and big. Also make sure there are keyboard shortcuts for the commonly used options.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

That's pretty much OFP DR. Not a very big success iirc. Once you need to navigate through sub pages it costs too much time.

[nkenny 1057]

Or Ghost Recon which was a great success :P

Just make the menu remember which subpage you visited last-- then give intuitive and obvious KEYBOARD SHORTCUTS to switch between pages (ie buttons 1,2,3) which opf:dr pretty much failed to produce.

Personal/Squad admin ISN'T a replacement for the ingame 'quick' command, radial wheel, or whatever COMMAND functionality.

-k

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Probably not, but "what needs to go there" varies from person to person, and even the composition of the units that needs to be controlled. Controlling a convoy differs from controlling a spotter if you know what I mean. What if you and the spotter leaves a convoy looking for an ambush? Do you want the "convoy controls" or the "spotter controls"? To cover all possible scenarios you typically end up with the complex number system (which is fast and doesn't take focus, but is inflexible since already exceeded and for many/some never becomes efficient).

I don't know, really. Maybe a big monster menu with about all available complex commands (and then some, like macros etc). Quick buttons for managing team selections (controlling who you give the commands to)? Showing everything on a single screen will get messy though visually, but at least it gives instant navigation and color coding could be used better. Target (2) and action (6) may be problematic. I'll brainstorm that a little, but I don't expect it to work very well (screen real estate issues).

So I'm not sure I follow your suggestion. Can you draw it up? How would it look like ingame and what would be the controls?

[Heatseeker 0]

When commanding a tank i cant tell what direction MY tank is facing with this new HUD.

The OFP tank-turret indicator in the top left corner helped ALOT, tbh i dont see any advantage to this new HUD over the old one, and it looks worse too..

So.. why? :confused: .

[savedbygrace 2]

Since this topic covers UI commands, Does anyone know how to actually customize the customize command under 0-9? It seems that someone could use it to activate a custom formation dialogue and begin writing their own formation scripts, or custom support options.

[maddogx 13]

Since this topic covers UI commands, Does anyone know how to actually customize the customize command under 0-9? It seems that someone could use it to activate a custom formation dialogue and begin writing their own formation scripts, or custom support options.

Nope, that's not what it's for. The 0-9 section is just for custom audio files that can be played in the game. No real functionality is associated with it.

[dmarkwick 261]

I wonder what sort of research, if any, BIS are doing RE the UI thing. I'd guess that a combination of researching games that do this well, as well as their own ideas of what needs to be implemented from reading threads like this would be the way to decide.

But, it would be nice for some sort of mini-SDK so that modders could design their own based on user-created overlays or something. Then maybe we'd see a natural selection thing happening as the best ideas get gradually incorporated into each other.

[Killg0re 0]

Not sure to post it here,

* But it would be nice, if the commandable AI units could be disabled server sided

* And the chat lines, programable on what to show, and the number of line's 4 instead of 11

[11aTony 0]

I have a suggestion about MP server lobby interface.

It would be really nice I think if there would be a "Server Info" button in MP server lobby.

Server admin would make a simple text file in ArmA 2 main directory. In this file you could write a simple description of server, which addons are ran by the server, which addons exacly are allowed on the server and even insert links where to download addons or missions and even list missions that require addons.

This text file would be then ran by shortcut parameter (-info="path") or some other way. Or even arma should generate simple description file on its own and user could edit it.

So in MP lobby you would click "Server Info" button and this file would be displayed in a new window. Like when you click create, a new window appears.

Something like this could be a relatively simple way to avoid certain issues and help new players as well.