LAMBS Improved Danger.fsm

[Ryko 18]

1 hour ago, nkenny said:

I would like to experiment a little more with accuracy related to the constant movement. Offhand I would say that more mobility is a fair trade off for loss of accuracy at close range. 

I would agree with your sentiment.  Here's a video however that shows the problem, which occurs regardless of the distance.

 

 

Two CSAT squad leaders (Katiba with optic, 50% skill), 500m away from me on the Terminal runway on Altis.  I fire a few shots initiating danger; the first squad leader has the FSM disabled with this setVariable ['dangerAIEnabled', false];. He will lie down and fire aimed shots at me.  The other guy will move slightly, re-engage, and then pop off a shot as he's turning.  Because he's moving, his accuracy is terrible.  He'll continue to do this until he runs out of ammo.  The example video shows his performance at 500m, but I've run it at 200m and closer, and have seen the same results.  At closer ranges, he will sometimes fire aimed shots after the first.  And if you scale up his skill, he'll achieve more hits, probably because his aim won't be as affected by aim.

 

What I'm getting at with all this is that you might want to balance between BIS' behaviour (where the unit prioritizes the most stable shooting situation before shooting, to guarantee hits) and yours (where the unit prioritizes movement over accuracy), perhaps by adding an additional state where the unit is set to forceSpeed 0 for a short time when they are firing, so while the first shot may go wild, follow-on shots can be a bit more accurate, then return to a movement option.

[nkenny 1057]

@PTV-Jobo
I find skill settings to be an arcane and byzantine, subject to individual preference and expectations more than any mutually agreed upon formula. Even more so than accuracy settings I find that the weapon plays a major part. I have investigated this in some detail in the LINKED thread. The long and the short of it is that carried weapon play a larger part in simulating certain types of opponent than does any skill setting.  Mostly because AI reactions are opaque. LAMBS_danger.fsm mod seeks to address some of that. 

My own precision and skill settings are in the high 0.8-0.9.  This is more a matter of personal machismo than it is any careful experiment. On the nopryl.no server, we're running somewhat lower settings-- adding delays due to client count and internet inertia. 

I have seen mods which normalise skill settings into more usefully tweaked figured. My own experience with this is limited to reading the code-- I have so far found game play adjusted through enemy equipment to be a a more useful measurement. 

-k 

[nkenny 1057]

@Ryko
Fantastic feedback. I will look into this a little more closely. 

 

There are two other matters at play. 

1. At long range, every purely shooting action with LAMBS_danger.fsm enabled comes with a chance of suppression fire. Suppression fire is inherently less accurate than controlled fire. 

2. The LAMBS danger.fsm comes with a strong REACTION impulse on first contact.  This is why the unit with the mod active attempts to fall back or otherwise seek cover. Had he been in a group, his leader would have mitigated this behaviour  by calling for attacks. 

Additionally, when a shooting event comes up-- forceSpeed is set to 0 at long range.  This is complicated by the fact that the command seems to have little effect for some type of movement. In any case, this all merits further investigation. 

[Devastator_cm 434]

maybe you can consider to add some Zeus modules to adjust the AI behavior during the mission so in case they start to act too independent considering what Zeus guy wants, he can turn off their new smart brain and let vanilla brain kick in to give more chance to Zeus for control?

[sammael 366]

Please if it possible add optional futures to turn on AI long distance skirmish like in real life wars ( not aimed fire but semi blind suppression ). Vanilla arma 3 AI can only prone when distance is more than 400-500m

[specialsmith 35]

Just wanted to thank you@nkenny for great work on the mod! I’ve been reading this thread since you posted it. We already ran our weekend long LAN-party using this and other LAMBS mods. No complaints, and everybody were happy with the firefights we had.

Will continue to follow this development and contribute with feedback from our games whenever such is recorded. :)


Thank you!

[Antagon Wystrel 1]

@nkenny : You wrote: "2.0 is feature frozen." So I hope we will see ACRE-compatblity in Version 2.1 or 2.2.

 

[nkenny 1057]

@Devastator_cm 
While not a priority, we will look into ZEUS support in the future. Specifically via theeasily expanded ZEN mod interface. 

@Sammael
While much of this is governed by cfgWeapons which remains untouched by the mod, there are elements of this in the new leadership manoevure parameters. I am not entirely happy with how suppression works at the moment. Generally it is a good idea, but difficult to automate in a way which is universally applicable-- ie, read by AI. 

Scripts and modules like the ACE suppression module are very good alternatives. 

@Antagon Wystrel
Ehh. The mod is fully ACRE compatible at the moment, given that AI do not use radios. ;) 

-k 

 

 

 

[AirShark 147]

i was playing around and ive noticed few things, i found that the Ai hardly uses AT weapons like it doesnt have the time to Aim at target because he moves to much and when he does he completely misses the target or never launch, and also units with force hold fire and careless behavior are still able to engage and fire at enemies for some reasons and as you recorded with your videos above the Ai likes to move in the opposite direction of the target i thought it was some kind of retreat features but a whole Team takes all that time to engage single suppressed unit that doesnt react and wasting all that ammo and time is not a good case for long dynamic missions nor Quick spec ops kind of things, and finally i will be pleased to test your new 2.0 when it will be released 😊

 

Edit: for

Quote

units with force hold fire and careless behavior are still able to engage and fire at enemies

happens with only few vehicles like RHS BTRs where the crew doesnt have hatches to turn out 

[Devastator_cm 434]

On 10/21/2019 at 9:04 PM, nkenny said:

My own precision and skill settings are in the high 0.8-0.9.  This is more a matter of personal machismo than it is any careful experiment. On the nopryl.no server, we're running somewhat lower settings-- adding delays due to client count and internet inertia. 
 

 

Do you mean the skill setting done at server.cfg here? So you have something like this?

 

aiLevelPreset = 3;
	};

	class CustomAILevel
	{
		skillAI = 0.8;
		precisionAI = 0.9;
	};

 

[froggyluv 2136]

Any chance of getting AI to suppressive/spray area while its moving laterally towards cover? Sort of like a panic fire

[JD Wang 352]

Is there a LAMBS all-in-one mod with your danger_fsm, turrets, rpg etc in it?

If not can we have one please.

[kremator 1065]

^^ this pretty please with bells on @nkenny

 

EDIT:  Not on steam however 🙂

[AirShark 147]

^^^ or putting the others in optional folder inside Lambs Danger.fsm 

[MK84 42]

Possible bug/issue.

When AI is given Task Hunt WP,  they will react/consider Zeus as a valid target.

[JD Wang 352]

14 hours ago, AirShark said:

^^^ or putting the others in optional folder inside Lambs Danger.fsm 

 

Please no I hate optional addons in other folders, because as soon as you add then Steam wants to re download the mod because it's not the same as the steam version, it's such a PITA. Not to mention having to remind everyone (and explain to newbies) to do it before every mission.
I'd rather have them all separate than have to deal with optional folders

[froggyluv 2136]

May sound trivial but I saw the coolest most satisfying AI thing using this the other day - was playing a rehash of the classic OFP mission Clean Sweep (6 Specops Clear a Town in Everon) - a mission I play all the time as a testing ground. So I adjusted the various enemy Russian AI groups who initially had I believe simple Move waypoints and changed a few to the Lambs.CQB and Lambs.Attack (Enter Building) while other groups I left their initial waypoints.

 

So anyways I was inside one of the buildings facing hostile directions and taking potshots out a window when I see an enemy AI maybe 100m across the road take interest in me. I lay down prone next to window (in 3rd person) and saw the guy just make a straight bee line towards me aiming at the window the whole time. I cant emphasize enough how nice it was to just see an AI run right towards my location with purpose -no wheeling around in strange directions, laying  down, look at the sea, etc..type garbage. Moreso he got to my window aimed his gun around and finally right down at me (ok he did hesitate a bit on the shot but still) and killed me on the floor from outside.

 

AI with purpose ftw!!

[johnnyboy 3793]

On 10/12/2019 at 4:23 AM, nkenny said:

Thank you! That is a wonderful resource. I have been looking with horror at navigating the web of AI comms line; these functions solve nearly all of my worries. I will definitely be looking at an implementation of on the next development cycle. 

Hi nkenny.  Just letting you know I've released an updated version of this JBOY Speak script to re-use in-game voices.  You are welcome to use it or parts of it any way you like.

Also, I don't know if you're interested or not, but it might be fun to integrate my Point Blank Melee script into your mix.  Your TaskHunt guys move pretty aggressively and may encounter the very close quarters situation where they don't fire or fire through each other, and my script is a fun solution to that problem.  Of course, its no problem if this doesn't fit with your plans.

 

[LSValmont 789]

@nkenny Since your last update I've been having real issues with getting my Ai Squad mates to obey my commands and they refuse to leave buildings specially. 

 

Even thou the scripts I am using to command them disable their dangerAI until they reach their destination via: _unit setVariable ["dangerAIEnabled",false,true]; AND (group _unit) enableAttack false; (Those 2 commands seemed to work better before but not anymore).

 

I went all they way into adding a while loop (I hate while loops) to force the Ai units under my command (squad mates) to leave the buildings via move commands (every second!) and still they would refuse to leave them!

 

So perhaps there should be a CBA option to completely disable DANGERAI for player commanded Ai units (when the leader of the group of the Ai is a player).

 

That could perhaps alleviate the lack of response or "obeying orders" that Arma 3 is already famous for and DANGERAI is accentuating even more in some situations.

 

Other than that top notch as always!

[nkenny 1057]

@LSValmont
It has been a really busy couple of weeks has left me a little off the forum.  What you describe is implemented in version 2.0.  I'll be making a YT video sometime soon. The release itself is soon.tm, moving precisely on schedule. 

-k 

 

 

[MacTheGoon 0]

Hello, would this work with AI spawned via scripts or modules such as ALiVE or hearts and minds?  If so, how would I make that happen?

[nkenny 1057]

@MacTheGoon
Yes, indeed. The mod works seamlessly on any unit spawned through any means. The only known incompatibility is ASR, which loads its own danger.fsm

 

--- 

 

- Some progress, demonstration and discussion on the flight and fleeing mechanics in Arma3: 

[froggyluv 2136]

Hopefully some of that fleeing will include just full out sprints to safer positions. Seen alot of those crouchers just get mowed down while creeping around gollum style a little too often.Maybe if that units is already Known by Tank he just splits but if he hasnt been revealed yet sneaks away - or something like that 😄

[AirShark 147]

58 minutes ago, nkenny said:

 

- Some progress, demonstration and discussion on the flight and fleeing mechanics in Arma3: 

Very nice indeed !

however at 12:39 that soldier doesnt seems that he is hiding, he is talking in combat mode and will be exposed anyway maybe stealth behavior will be more appropriate to it ?

because hiding and taking cover are not the same thing, hiding should be more silent 

[slamduck 13]

I looked at your video here and at the 15:00 mark you shoot the btr but it seem to instantly know where you are even if the turret is looking at the opposing direction.By the time the turret needed to rotate on your position,you were already hidden. To be honest if a human was in that btr they would never know where the shot was coming from and would have taken them quite some time to scan the surroundings before engaging.

 

The culprit is probably the knowabout value jumping at 1.5 instead of slowly rising from 0.