Tanks - Missile flight profiles and weapon improvements

[scavenjer 112]

Note, the Angara's turrets were both disabled (including gun stuck).
On a sidenote: why does the Angara have 360° smoke dispensers when they're only positioned forward and sidewards in an arc?

I count 18 smoke grenades launched, but only 5 per side near the turret ring...?

Wooooops wrong thread :/

[dragon01 902]

It seems that it'd be expected for Angara. The turret on the real Armata is only armored against autocannon fire. Protection in that area is sacrificed for the sake of crew compartment armor and mobility, which is where the tank really excels. A stuck gun can be fixed (both in ArmA and IRL), while no one managed to resurrect a dead crewmember so far. :) 

[scavenjer 112]

34 minutes ago, dragon01 said:

It seems that it'd be expected for Angara. The turret on the real Armata is only armored against autocannon fire. Protection in that area is sacrificed for the sake of crew compartment armor and mobility, which is where the tank really excels. A stuck gun can be fixed (both in ArmA and IRL), while no one managed to resurrect a dead crewmember so far. :) 

Yes, indeed! You should check out damage thread, I posted it there, I accidentally misposted here.... :/

[Zygzak191 52]

I've messed with Rhino's ATGMs and I love them, but when I tried shooting with top-down attack mode at targets behind hills lased by the drone it overshot.

[ski2060 167]

I do not believe that you can do BVR shots with missiles at this time.   Lock on after Launch, which was talked about, may not be in game yet. 

 

[oukej 2911]

4 hours ago, scavenjer said:

Right, did some testing with the new NATO ATGM on the rhino, in direct fire it dips a lot and will just hit the ground.

In top attack mode it will go direct attack sub 300m or so...? But actually works as opposed to straight up direct attack mode.

Same happens with the FireFIST ATGM  on the Wiesel Nyx, although both modes work the missile still drops very close to the ground.

For some bizarre reason the damage seems the same on the FireFIST in both DA and TA?

 

Testing done in the virtual world.

The cannon launched 120mm ATGM LG is a purely laser-guided missile and requires a lock.
Unlike 125mm cannons which only can use a SACLOS missile the 120mm cannons can choose from 2 variants of missiles - a laser guided with LOAL capabilities or a SACLOS one.
Magazines:

• 4Rnd_120mm_cannon_missiles (SACLOS)
• 4Rnd_120mm_LG_cannon_missiles (Laser guided, LOAL, available top attack mode)

 

2 hours ago, ski2060 said:

I do not believe that you can do BVR shots with missiles at this time.   Lock on after Launch, which was talked about, may not be in game yet.

It is already. Used on bombs and this laser guided missile. Intended to be used especially with the top attack mode and a target received via data link.

[Strike_NOR 898]

7 hours ago, HaseDesTodes said:

 

 

i know the rotation thing is intentional (and looks cool).

but i think the fire should come out of the end of the fin, not out of thin air

On my end it is. It is physically attached to the fin that has the tracer "container" 3d model.

 

Maybe it randomly glitches then?

[SuicideKing 233]

5 hours ago, oukej said:

The cannon launched 120mm ATGM LG is a purely laser-guided missile and requires a lock.

Interestingly, I managed to get it to work in SACLOS mode with top attack... I also couldn't get it to *lock*, the laser target gets selected but there wasn't a lock. Missile tracks but misses at the last moment. I've provided more details here:

 

[Sanya 97]

What about ATGM for russian tanks?

[HaseDesTodes 62]

6 hours ago, Strike_NOR said:

On my end it is. It is physically attached to the fin that has the tracer "container" 3d model.

 

Maybe it randomly glitches then?

 

i think i found whats wrong with them:

 

there are 2 jets:

one is coming out of the end of the fin, the other is coming out of thin air.

and the visibility changes by the view direction

 

Spoiler

 

[dragon01 902]

3 hours ago, SuicideKing said:

Interestingly, I managed to get it to work in SACLOS mode with top attack... I also couldn't get it to *lock*, the laser target gets selected but there wasn't a lock. Missile tracks but misses at the last moment. I've provided more details here:

It's LOAL, you don't need a lock. That said, make sure you're not demanding the missile to turn sharper than it can. I need to do more tests on this, but if it acquires a lock too late, it might not be able to make the turn.

[reyhard 2082]

@HaseDesTodes - it should be fixed soon. One side of the tracer was not correctly attached to missile selection

[Strike_NOR 898]

Hi.

 

I'm sure you have noticed my addiction to HEAT simulation by now. I apologize my persistence, but could any of you working on the missile guidance/weapon improvements shed any light on the following question:

 

What benefit does the top-attack currently have over direct-attack in the game - per todays devbranch version? (all except the PCML which uses projectile)

 

I'd like to know not from the obvious real-life hypothetical benefit, but actual ingame-mechanics benefit!

 

If I were to make an educated guess, I would say that:

 

1. The top-attack "bypasses" the side-mounted ERA panels. (Meaning they have no effect against top-attacks)
2. The indirectHit calculation occurs closer to the targets center, meaning it reaches further into the geometry to deal splash damage to things.

 

But besides that, absolutely nothing?

 

I want to know, because I am really curious as to why such a feature is introduced, if the difference between top-attack and direct-attack are so seemingly insignificant?

 

I bet you can see where I am going with this (moar simulated HEAT shaped charge jets pls).

 

 

[xxgetbuck123 945]

1 hour ago, reyhard said:

@HaseDesTodes - it should be fixed soon. One side of the tracer was not correctly attached to missile selection

 

I actually thought it was apart of the missile design. Makes it spin hella fast or someshit 

[da12thMonkey 1943]

In case anybody missed it in the SITREP video: Vojtěch mentions in passing that there is also a terrain-following flight profile available for missiles.

Dunno what BI's plans for it might be, but regardless it could be interesting stuff for addon makers desiring things like sea-skimming ASMs and tactical cruise missiles.

[Damian90 697]

10 hours ago, oukej said:

The cannon launched 120mm ATGM LG is a purely laser-guided missile and requires a lock.
Unlike 125mm cannons which only can use a SACLOS missile the 120mm cannons can choose from 2 variants of missiles - a laser guided with LOAL capabilities or a SACLOS one.
Magazines:

• 4Rnd_120mm_cannon_missiles (SACLOS)
• 4Rnd_120mm_LG_cannon_missiles (Laser guided, LOAL, available top attack mode)

 

It is already. Used on bombs and this laser guided missile. Intended to be used especially with the top attack mode and a target received via data link.

 

Does this means that also Slammer MBT's can use these ATGM's? Just like the real world Merkava Mk4 can use LAHAT? ;)

[oukej 2911]

Exactly.
120mm (BLUFOR, INDEP) can now use the SACLOS and LG cannon launched ATGMs (MARUKs).
125mm (OPFOR) can use SACLOS cannon launched ATGM.
105mm gets a pita.

[SuicideKing 233]

Are the Nyx's ATGMs supposed to be visual or IR lock? I seemed to be able to lock on to a "cold" T-140, although I think the T-140 thermal textures are broken/haven't made it in yet. Anyway, I could lock on to tanks through smoke, despite not being able to see them either visually or through the smokescreen they deployed. 

[dragon01 902]

Since this is a thread about weapons: BIS, please improve performance of the 20mm autocannons.

 

I just did some tests using the Nyx (radar version) as a target. For all calibers other than 20mm, only a few rounds on target were needed to cause an explosion, and even fewer to disable the vehicle. 20mm, on the other hand, is severely underpowered.

1). 2x twin 20mm pods on the Orca. Entire magazine fired (not all hit, but a realistic hit rate), no explosion, crew bailed after expanding most of the magazine.
2). Blackfoot at a typical engagement distance. Crew bailed around the "low ammo" threshold. No explosion.

 

This is excessive for a vehicle which, IRL, is only armored against 7.62mm fire. Even a .50 cal HMG takes less rounds fired (not necessarily hit, due to higher accuracy) to disable the Nyx. Against infantry, a typical 20mm HE round should have a 2m lethal radius and deal fragmentation damage at least out to next 10m or so. Against light vehicles, they should have at least some amount of armor penetration ability, enough to take out a Nyx or an MRAP with a couple of hits. The other guns work fine, so, again, the problem is with the cannons.

[scavenjer 112]

9 hours ago, oukej said:

Exactly.
120mm (BLUFOR, INDEP) can now use the SACLOS and LG cannon launched ATGMs (MARUKs).
125mm (OPFOR) can use SACLOS cannon launched ATGM.
105mm gets a pita.

Oh, yes I forgot to add that that testing was done while locked, I figured out pretty quickly they're not meant to have SACLOS abilities.

 

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

14 hours ago, oukej said:

Exactly.
120mm (BLUFOR, INDEP) can now use the SACLOS and LG cannon launched ATGMs (MARUKs).
125mm (OPFOR) can use SACLOS cannon launched ATGM.
105mm gets a pita.

 

So other than scripting to add the magazine is there any way for players to add these to their vehicles?

Will there be a Pylon Settings for tanks?

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

The new Nyx AT appears to not be able to lock on target unless the center of the vehicle model is visible to the target. IMO the raycast should be between the weapon/turret model selection instead of the model center of the vehicle. this will allow us to not expose ourselves to the target as much.

 

(i could be wrong, but i was unable to lock unless "aimpos" of the vehicle was visible to "aimpos" of the target

 

---------

 

Nyx AT  AI also appear to default to their HMG instead of their AT missiles, when fighting against armor (rhino)

Would be better if they didnt fire HMG at APCs until their missiles are expended, as this just alerts the target without doing much damage.

[xxgetbuck123 945]

2 hours ago, fn_Quiksilver said:

The new Nyx AT appears to not be able to lock on target unless the center of the vehicle model is visible to the target. IMO the raycast should be between the weapon/turret model selection instead of the model center of the vehicle. this will allow us to not expose ourselves to the target as much.

 

(i could be wrong, but i was unable to lock unless "aimpos" of the vehicle was visible to "aimpos" of the target

 

I can attest to this. Locking with the AT Nyx is very inconsistent, sometimes I can lock a stationary vehicle that is just out of sight, yet can't lock a big ass truck driving down an open road. Love the vehicle when it works, however very very inconsistent locking

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

42 minutes ago, xxgetbuck123 said:

 

I can attest to this. Locking with the AT Nyx is very inconsistent, sometimes I can lock a stationary vehicle that is just out of sight, yet can't lock a big ass truck driving down an open road. Love the vehicle when it works, however very very inconsistent locking

 

if you can trace a line between the center of the Nyx and the center of the target, it should be able to lock and fire (within range). It needs to be tweaked so the line is traced between the Nyx turret and the target

[darkChozo 133]

Was doing some testing with the AT launchers and noticed some bugs.

 

First, if you lock on to a vehicle with a lockon launcher (tested with the Titan and PCML), then quickly switch over to the Vorona and fire in a random direction, the Vorona missiles will home in on the target you locked, despite the fact that it's not able to lock on to targets itself. Interestingly, this seems to stick around for ~10 seconds, which meant that I was able to fire 4 homing missiles on a nominally non-homing launcher.

 

Second, the PCML's dumbfire seems to be broken. The missile angles up, meaning that to hit a target at more than 200 meters you have to aim below it. To hit a 1000m target, you need to aim at the top of the crosshair. This means that the ranging indicators are entirely wrong, as they're indicating a typical aim-above-the-target ballistic trajectory.