Arma 3 Third-Party DLC Pitch Discussion

[Wiki 1558]

13 minutes ago, lexx said:

That's the winners. Look at the other entries. :p

 

Well, I keep making missions :-p

 

More seriously, maybe it's only the winners.

But still, we still have good quality there.

I just hope with this third party DLC, we'll have the same - and I think we can expect such ;-)

 

[PuFu 4600]

14 hours ago, lexx said:

That's the winners. Look at the other entries. :p

and do you actually think if for instance RHS wouldn't have won for instance, there would have been no more development on it ?

a lot of the ones that participated are still about and creating and supporting their content

[lexx 1363]

I never said anything like that.

Some of the posters in this thread made it seem like "just cobble together some missons and get them quick $$$", while the truth is, there are many projects, but only few even get into a stage that could be considered money-worthy.

 

[PuFu 4600]

2 minutes ago, lexx said:

I never said anything like that.

Some of the posters in this thread made it seem like "just cobble together some missons and get them quick $$$", while the truth is, there are many projects, but only few even get into a stage that could be considered money-worthy.

my bad then, 100% agreed in that case. 

[djotacon 190]

7 hours ago, lexx said:

 a stage that could be considered money-worthy.

 

 

Who say that? you? and who you are?

 

Who are Pufu? Who am I?

 

We are not the entire mankind and the people spend money in something if they like it.

 

Instead posting comments that seems full arrogance let the people make his own decisions.

[M. Glade 524]

11 minutes ago, djotacon said:

 

Who say that? you? and who you are?

 

Who are Pufu? Who am I?

 

We are not the entire mankind and the people spend money in something if they like it.

 

Instead posting comments that seems full arrogance let the people make his own decisions.

 

Lol mate, we're gamers, we buy games like religion. Maybe not to you, but we're not game developers, we're consumers (well, some of us are BI devs). 

 

I like buying things and am not afraid voicing my opinion on what BI offers, since they're literally the only studio I can give a dime about (no pun intended). This thread was created since its crossing the line from what is free and what is paid, we have every right as already base game consumers to provide input what we'd want to buy, and BI is doing exactly that, proving a platform for us to discuss freely.

[djotacon 190]

11 minutes ago, M. Glade said:

 

Lol mate, we're gamers, we buy games like religion. Maybe not to you, but we're not game developers, we're consumers (well, some of us are BI devs). 

 

I like buying things and am not afraid voicing my opinion on what BI offers, since they're literally the only studio I can give a dime about (no pun intended). This thread was created since its crossing the line from what is free and what is paid, we have every right as already base game consumers to provide input what we'd want to buy, and BI is doing exactly that, proving a platform for us to discuss freely.

 

I think you have not understood what I am saying.

Basically I am saying the same thing as you, and criticizing someone saying if it is worth spending money or not based on the criteria of a single person.

My previous comment is related to another previous comment that is highlighted.

 

[djotacon 190]

27 minutes ago, M. Glade said:

 

Lol mate, we're gamers, we buy games like religion. Maybe not to you, but we're not game developers, we're consumers (well, some of us are BI devs). 

 

 

Sorry but no, I buy the games that I like and I dont believe in "gaming religion".

 

And an actual game is created by an complete set of workers ( engine-dev, scripters, graphics devs, missions/map makers, etc,etc) all of them are game developers, if you make a mod, a map, a sceneario you are another game developer, even an scripter can be another game developer and a profesional mod developer.

 

[kiory 405]

3 hours ago, djotacon said:

 

Sorry but no, I buy the games that I like and I dont believe in "gaming religion".

You just called out Lexx for being arrogant, yet you're stating your opinion like it's a universal fact, like M. Glade's opinion means fuck all?

 

Talk about arrogance, your opinion is yours, and M. Glade has his,  just because you don't hold the same opinion doesn't mean you can be disrespectful.

[Wiki 1558]

Please, be gentle everyone!

[Hvymtal 1251]

I ask that this thread be more heavily moderated. This has already veered off several times into nothing good and the last thing anybody wants is for a good thing to become a flame thread. 

[PuFu 4600]

5 hours ago, djotacon said:

We are not the entire mankind and the people spend money in something if they like it.

 

Instead posting comments that seems full arrogance let the people make his own decisions.

of course, but you do understand the idea, the content and features (when i say content i am not talking about just addons btw) is being pitched towards Bohemia, and NOT the end-user/consumer, and as such, the entire package needs to be up to the same standards as BI own made stuff, yeah?

[Wiki 1558]

40 minutes ago, PuFu said:

The entire package needs to be AT LEAST up to the same standards as BI own made stuff, yeah?

 

Fixed

Because sometimes, usermade content is better than official content ;-)

[djotacon 190]

2 hours ago, kiory said:

You just called out Lexx for being arrogant, yet you're stating your opinion like it's a universal fact, like M. Glade's opinion means fuck all?

 

Talk about arrogance, your opinion is yours, and M. Glade has his,  just because you don't hold the same opinion doesn't mean you can be disrespectful.

 

I dont understand what are you saying and I make a post explain that M.Glade's and I have the same opinion.

I make a post explain everything very clear.

 

1 hour ago, PuFu said:

of course, but you do understand the idea, the content and features (when i say content i am not talking about just addons btw) is being pitched towards Bohemia, and NOT the end-user/consumer, and as such, the entire package needs to be up to the same standards as BI own made stuff, yeah?

 

Again who say that, and why we need the BIS STANDARD?

 

Right now  - as I know - BIS is only reading proposal, I dont see any "pitch"...

 

and

 

where's  the BIS STANDARD in a game mode? like BATTLE ROYALE ? now... is a great success and a perfect example of a mod based only in script that someone can buy and play ( coff, coff, PUBG, Fornite).

 

I dont see any problem with third party development and I see people very interested and a great future with this inside our community but I think that "lobbiers" anti-mod inside Steam probably try a boycott against third party premium content.

 

[PuFu 4600]

4 hours ago, djotacon said:

Again who say that, and why we need the BIS STANDARD?

not really sure how to explain this better than i already have. BI standard, at least in terms of quality standars...

 

Quote

Right now  - as I know - BIS is only reading proposal, I dont see any "pitch"...

ahhh, do you see "pitch" in the title? again, you should go back and read the quoted thread in the first channel. The pitch is something one interested needs to do towards BI, not you...

 

Quote

where's  the BIS STANDARD in a game mode? like BATTLE ROYALE ? now... is a great success and a perfect example of a mod based only in script that someone can buy and play ( coff, coff, PUBG, Fornite).

...as previously discussed in this thread, BI is looking for a pack, including assets as well, not just a gamemod.

 

Quote

...but I think that "lobbiers" anti-mod inside Steam probably try a boycott against third party premium content.

lol

[Delta Hawk 1829]

Would an independent content developer get access to special references like how to make ArmA cloth?  And/or advance, legitimate encryption tools?  Would BIS legal department help developers with copyright infringement claims?  What is the time period you expect to have content pushed out?  Would you be looking at developers creating something to get pushed out to Steam in a month?  Year?  Or even two years?

[xxgetbuck123 945]

What are BIs thoughts on someone pitching an 'Expansion Pack' much like Apex or Operation Arrowhead? 

[broduz 71]

2 hours ago, xxgetbuck123 said:

What are BIs thoughts on someone pitching an 'Expansion Pack' much like Apex or Operation Arrowhead? 

I know there are plenty of amazing modders within the ArmA community. However, I also know that some appreciate the 2035 timeline of A3 while others not so much. I respect both sides.

 

Although I gotta say, the A3 concept was well thought out, and there seems to be the perfect balance of detail provided by the existing narrative as well as enough gaps for our collective imagination to happily fill with mods.

 

My hope is that whomever participates in this 3rd Party DLC Pitch keeps true to the A3 lore....I think there is a lot which can be explored.

[General Kong 148]

I too also like the 2035 setting, and believe it has a lot of potential with third party DLC, hopefully we will get some campaign with the quality we have seen displayed by Kydoimeus (hope I got that right) and Lexx, expecially one that sees things from CSAT perspective (especially with what happened in Apex)

not to mention, I was kinda hoping that what was on this feedback item was addressed (*cough* self promoting *cough*)
https://feedback.bistudio.com/T126926

Edited November 13, 2017 by General Kong

[road runner 4344]

3rd Party pitch= flat out of ideas ??

Lots of modders have just given up with Arma, it seems the popularity of the franchise has perhaps lost its gloss, putting in vast amounts of personal time and commitment, only to have their efforts put down, or it wasn't what was expected, wrong make or model etc etc etc.

There's a handful of dedicated addon makers still working their magic, and there's less who are working to a standard as high as BIS, but have yet to produce products into the game.

If BIS are no longer going to fix the stupidity of the AI, and it's piss poor path skills, what's the point in having a super duper new 3rd Party DLC, when it will suffer the same issues all other addons that are created, that are free?

I was always 100% behind BIS, now I'd say I'm less than 75%, and that's being conservative.

The whole community I'm sure would be in agreement in saying that as it stands, it's already 3rd party addons that are the only thing keeping Arma 3 alive, with the likes of RHS, the CUP's team, the ACE and ALIVE teams.

Paying for an addon, when the underlying base game is broken in areas that it should be fixed, is like putting gasoline into a tank with a hole in it.. eventually you realise you're wasting time, effort and funds.

Make all the current assets available unbinarised, and interests might be worth it.

Best of luck to whoever decides to put the effort, and time in and have a solid workflow and time frame that's achievable, and whatever you're concept is, that it pays off financially for you.

[HaseDesTodes 62]

I thought about this for a while, and found it wouldn't hurt if express my concerns about this.

 

In the past BIS have made sure, that non DLC/Addon owners were able play with owners and this seems not to be the case with the way this is announced (at least how i understood it).

I usually play on the EUTW servers, which is a mission that doesn't use any 3rd party assets, for one simple reason: accessibility. Even if it's super simple to join a modded server and download missing mods using the launcher's server browser it seems to be a step many players are not willing to take.

Because of that i fear, that it would be difficult to run a server (in terms of having it populated) that uses one or more premium mods, if having them installed is mandatory to join and play on the server.

I think that we can expect the new premium mods to contain at least one mod that is mainly an asset expansion (vehicles, uniforms, equipment, etc.). All those things could be added like it was done with the DLCs, so non-owners could play together with owners on the same server, but couldn't use them.

I think premium Mod/DLC creators should be given the option to have their assets behave the same way as BIS DLC assets. So that they can decide if their creations are suitable for use along with vanilla assets or not, but also if they would like it this way. I'm sure there can be reasons to restrict the use, so i think it should be possible, but not mandatory.

 

Having mods forced in order to join a server, can lead to a low player count, what often makes a server less attractive to other players, so the server gets on a downward spiral. And players might begin questioning, if they should buy a Mod/DLC when there is not enough content that is utilizing it.

I'm sure there will still be some/many well organized communities that get to fill their servers, but i think, that if one is trying to sell a product increasing the potential amount of customers can be a good way to go.

 

One thing i am concerned about with what i suggested, is, that this might get to some "pay to win" scenario.

If there are very powerful assets that require premium access in a PVP situation, players might feel that they are forced to buy a DLC/Mod in order to keep up.

Only ways i currently see to prevent this kind of situation are:

-mission creators make sure the access is balanced (put a high price tag on those assets, restrict amount per team, etc)

-the way it is announced: you need the mod in order to play on a server that uses it

-create low quality versions of the assets, that are free to use for everyone, and keep the high quality versions as mods (almost like BIS used to do it with BAF, PMC and Armed Forces of the Czech Republic)

 

 

I don't really expect much/anything at all of what i wrote to happen, but i wanted at least to express my concerns about this topic.

[Valken 622]

I think the easiest way to get consideration would be to propose a multi-part package because it be done in stages with escalating content and payout, and if time or resource bound, it can be scaled back or can be split up among multiple groups yet still motivate the design group(s) to achieve something.

 

Example = A FEMALE asset and content DLC pack! 

 

Good DLC - Same price as Tac-Ops or Laws of War DLC

• Female units including correctly sized head, body, uniforms, HANDS, hairstyles, etc...
• All BIS 2035 factions uniforms including NATO, CSAT, AAF, FIA, Syndikat, Orange and CIVILIANS... with correct ethnicity.
• All BIS 2035 Gear pack including vests and helmets adjusted to fit. I think backpacks, eye wear and weapons should work already seeing the community made content. Its just the assets that actualy adhere to the body that needs reworking.
• Full audio work with correct spoken language for each faction and ethnicity
• Reworked configs to add, replace females into all default squads so it can be transparent to current and user made missions where need. EG: Fighter pilots, infantry, paramedic to orange DLC, and etc...
• Short campaign to introduce female assets into each group.
• Templates for users to create and update user made mods with females so the community can make female zombies for example without having to remake the models.

 

Better DLC - Same Price as Marksman, Jets or Helicopter DLC

• Same as the above plus new weapons to bring up the value including near future tech such as portable railgun, gauss (coil) gun, EMP - portable or missile driven, dirty bombs, or other cool stuff besides the nth generation of AK or M4 derivatives...
• New vehicle including SCRAMJETs, high altitude sub orbital transports, super squirrel inspired stealth recon craft:
• Retrofitted ARMORED UP LAVs and Military type vehicles for URBAN combat use.

 

Best DLC - Same price as Apex

• All of the above plus a large scale multi-city fictional map (not ISLAND) with high density modern detailed proper mixed elements urban cities inspired by London, Paris, Moscow, Berlin, Tokyo, Hong Kong, New York, etc...

• Near future building assets for us to play with.
•  

VBS3 has their own East Coast playground.  I am personally sick of non-detail islands or another big desert map with very few buildings inspired from A2. We have a lot user content already to fill that base but I would pay good money for a Tanoa quality map based on a near future urban metropolis.

 

It can be Gotham City for all I care with suburbs near by so please no more islands or deserts or nature maps with next to no civilization unless it is Amazonia with 7 cities of gold and the cure for cancer to be found! 

 

Should really include a new faction such as local governmental forces including civilians, police and potential militia or enemies.

• A short set of missions to setup the background story for the main city would be great. I mean, lets face it - Tanoa's campaign / missions were pretty sparse but it was good enough.
• Bonus = New MP game mode  inspired by The Purge movie ... Social anarchists are sick of establishment in ARMA-Tropolis and plans to subvert the newly elected government due to perceived status quo politics. Pro government ultra nationalists see the citizens revolting as a challenge to their power. Creates militant division to stop the Anarchists. The world cries foul on democracy and liberty. NATO and CSAT see it as an opportunity to establish further influence in the region and supplies both sides with resources while blaming the other side for creating disorder.

Somebody steals some high tech assets from a black ops project and plans to equalize the situation. Basically a 3 team elimination.

• You are part of a small joint task force to investigate all groups and shut them down in SP or COOP (4th team vs all 3 teams).

 

Separately these can be achievable and worth paying for polished up even if community assets exists or not and would allow one or more team to gain financial feasibility to see it through. Ideally it would be all coordinated to fit, enhance, integrate and work together to achieve maximum playabilty and stay lore friend to the basic game and 2035 universe. 

[lexx 1363]

^ yup, but keep in mind, we're not necessarily talking about professionals here, no? If BI would be looking for that, they might have better chances to ask other, real, game studios if they are interested.

Also keep the money in mind-- if I understood it right, BI would *not* give you money after you show them your pitch, which means you'll have to finish that thing on your own costs, and then see (or rather hope) that you'll break even in the end. For professional, that's probably a very risky undertaking, considering how much time A3 addon development requires you to spend.

 

[Valken 622]

I was under the assumption that if the proposal was justified, BIS would support it like Orange or Jet DLC? Those were NOT pure professional teams to start with? And look at RHS as that is near professional already!

 

That is the content developers would create most of the assets in their own time, yet BIS would polish it up, add scripting and engine support, then payout based on sales.

 

BIS can even "fund" it partially based on preorders alone to seed the projects?

 

I mean I (and guess many) would pay right now for an official female DLC with VSM quality matched gear integrated with full engine support alone!

[HorribleGoat 1473]

Just to let you guys know proper Female DLC would require some fundamental changes in the engine (support for adjusting gear to fit different skeletons and changing weapon anims into cfgmoves etc etc) so since those have been stated not to come, you may have to settle for unofficial solutions.