Suggestion: Female character as the next DLC???

[rimap-p90 15]

That would be great if BIS create a "playable" female characters... Since Operation flashpoint, it's never been done! What do you think?

[Rydygier 1317]

It was discussed to death and back and again. 

 

I would definitelly buy solid Women DLC, maybe included as part of some Civilian Ambience DLC, but playable (para)military characters should be added too. If it's too much hassle to add them to the base content (apparently it is so). Because lack of women leaves a big, empty space in the immersion. 

[Kydoimos 916]

You've got my vote, mate :) Yeah, it's a big community scorer on the community wishlist!

[Arkensor 96]

I don't think that there will be any dlc coming until arma 4, and I don't think that women will ever be present in default arma.

 

The question would be, why should they do both? Bring a dlc and with women. They care about sales not about a happy community

[tpw 2315]

I would very happily buy a female DLC, but am of the opinion that the chances of it ever happening are microscopic. Females are not something that they just haven't gotten around to yet, BI actively removed females from their product. My guess is they figured the negative PR from anoraks making prostitution and other female denigration mods (a la some of the Skyrim stuff) would be worse than the negative PR from not having them at all. 

 

Personally, I hope the release of Apex means they can redeploy some of their obvious talent to addressing the various areas of A3 halfassery: furnished/destructible buildings; non existent inland/fresh water; woeful AI pathfinding and driving; night lighting; clutter LODs; no females etc etc.

[killzone_kid 1331]

I don't think that there will be any dlc coming

 

They care about sales

 

How does this work?

[Arkensor 96]

How does this work?

 

Time invested into bulding a female DLC vs money they can get from it -> May not be worh the time. They could say, well even if we just pay the costs we had in development for it, lets do that! - but I think that is not gonna happen.

Because they are a company, not a community development team. They want to make money with arma, not make people happy just for fun. 

 

They would need to fee money for such a dlc, but then many people won't buy that, just to have females etc. So they have to fee alot of money to get the costs back from those people who buy it. 

 

If there will ever be something like female models, thant the best thing we can get is a "offical" mod from some bi devs, like the p90 thing there.

[lexx 1391]

Pretty sure women in a3 will never happen outside of mods.

About them not making any more DLCs in general... I doubt that. People are willing to pay, after all. Hell, I would constantly throw money at the damn screen if it would do any good.

[2nd ranger 282]

A "female soldier" DLC won't happen, but a general civilian DLC with female characters - even limited ones like Arma 2 - would be possible. I think female civilians should be in the game anyway, but a DLC would be worth it if it added alot of stuff we used to have in previous games.

[Jackal326 1181]

A wild Wishlist thread appears. Jackal326 uses sarcasm. It is super-effective.

[Wiki 1558]

Boobs!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Oh, wait... ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

[Beagle 684]

I miss the representation of a normal population too. ArmA II had it and that way was well enough for the purposse.

ArmA II even used different sets of animations and conversations for different female classes.

The models neither need to use weaposn nor have to apply to the equipment system.

 

btw: Even old OFP:R had female characters that were fully able to operate all weapons and vehicles.

 

The only games so war without female characters are Armed Assault and ArmA II and both games alyways felt unreal and empty in the represantation of a immersive world.

 

And: ArmA II ACR even hat dogs as teammates...that was a perfect game world.

 

ArmA II simply allowed for the display of typical civilian scenarios on Chernarus and Takistan with just dropign two modules onto the map.

 

I've spend countless hours with just using the ambient combat module, secops, a.l.i.c.e and civilan traffic modules for fully random single player missions.

I don't see it as an progress that all those easy to use modules are gone in ArmA III. In fact ArmA II feels liek a step back in a lot of ways.

 

the engine has advanced but the GAME value is degraded.

[rimap-p90 15]

Hi guys!

 

I'm organising a poll just to see what people think. If you believe on this project, please vote... Of course, there's  no guarantee that BIS will work on the developpement of a female character....

[joostsidy 685]

Hi guys!

 

I'm organising a poll just to see what people think. If you believe on this project, please vote... Of course, there's  no guarantee that BIS will work on the developpement of a female character....

 

Rimap, I'm sorry but you're a bit late to the party. Your wish has been around since the beginning of Arma3 2 years ago. It was near the top of feature request in the feedback tracker with thousands of votes and BIS is well aware of this, I don't think your poll will change much.

 

One thing that remains the same is the controversy around this issue. BIS basically has three bad options:

1. No women, playing it safe and leading to a slightly weird game world

2. Women as civilians, insulting the concept of women soldiers, which are part of many armies, making the women 'less' than the man, creating PR problems for BIS. Second: Allowing for abuse scenario's that would cause PR problems for BIS

3. Adding women, including soldiers, would probably create a lot of gear model, animations, positioning work. Second: allowing for abuse scenario's that would cause PR problems for BIS

 

Especially the abuse/violence scenario's make problems worse as game models get more and more realistic. I think in OFP, early Arma, this was less of a problem.

 

Please notice I have no particular personal preference in the choices.

[x3kj 1247]

 

1. No women, playing it safe and leading to a slightly weird game world

+ avoid hundreds of combined work hours to create complete new animation set for everything and it's dog.

+ avoid creating complete new sets for all the uniforms to fit female form.

This is hardly a "omg PR/  SJW " issue. It's a workload issue.

[en3x 209]

+ avoid hundreds of combined work hours to create complete new animation set for everything and it's dog.

+ avoid creating complete new sets for all the uniforms to fit female form.

This is hardly a "omg PR/  SJW " issue. It's a workload issue.

 

Ever since I saw Star citizen model of female that can get in male uniforms - so the body it's

essentially the same, so there is no need to redo all the uniforms.

[Rydygier 1317]

1. No women, playing it safe and leading to a slightly weird game world

 

 

Is that safe really? Excluding women from the world entirely? IMO each three approaches theoretically may be interpreted as risky/insulting, and the first one even the most.

 

And as for me, I wouldn't care about that issue making such decision. Abusing is perfectly possible even now, as there's a possiblity of women as a mod - and in fact we even have such mod AFAIK. So there are women in Arma game, that may be abused, and BIS may be blamed, as he allowed such situation. In consequence of such thinking BIS should ban any modding. Bah. There are also men in Arma, modded and official, that may be abused too. Why we talk about women only here? So, along such way of thinking, there shouldn't be men as well. For me - not a valid argument. PR paranoia isn't healthy, only paralyzing. False thinking or excuse. Real argument may be amount of work required - not only models, but also all new animation set, including mocap sessions etc. 

 

And as for abusing of men or women, regardless, legal responsibility, same as moral, whole odium, should be taken personally by the one, who is abusing, not the one, who made content, that is abused. Otherwise we are entering a world of inconsequence or absurd. 

[joostsidy 685]

And as for me, I wouldn't care about that issue making such decision.

 

Maybe that's the reason why you don't own a game company ;-P

 

I get what you're saying, and I'm not a BIS representative, but I do think PR plays a role, because they could put in the effort (there is a demand) or create a male-resembling character otherwise.

 

They rather keep Arma a bit on the safe, fantasy side with only the 'cool fit dudes' that no one feels sorry for.

 

 

You see this 'safe behavior' in other parts of the game as well. In Novalogic's Delta Force you could fatally injure a soldier so he'd crawl wounded on the ground, crying for his mother and then die.

 

It would be very easy for BIS to implement such realistic behaviour in Arma. I would have gameplay benefits as well, but Arma is a lot more like a paintball match in this regard, and I think - especially with more realistic modelling possible every year - they like to keep it that way.

 

 

I'm not going into a discussion on women/men in the army, who has it worst etc. Because like It has been said it has been done to death. If you're interested you can read some of here, for instance, in this post from 2013:

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T60025

[Rydygier 1317]

Maybe that's the reason why you don't own a game company ;-P

 

 

:) At most - yet another reason, why I shouldn't. Of course - their decision, if they want sterile, paintball-like experience avoiding anything, that smells any controversy even at cost of immersion and realism. Personally I would go more for authenticity including not only women, but also horrible deaths. I would tend to show a war, what it is really, deadly serious thing with all civilian suffering and misery. Yes, children included. And I would take on my chest any PR shit, that could hit the fan because of that, no matter, for me - it would be still worthy of doing that way, and, I think, simply right way of telling about the war. Not best business plan perhaps, and not something for light entertaining purposes, but if sold as such - as something serious, and more educative than entertaining, maybe still good enough to keep it running. 

 

Of course, that doesn't mean I would like to change necessarily Arma in such thing. Arma is, what it is, just IMHO presence of women wouldn't do much harm to this picture while will make it much richer and more believeable. More immersive. Like it was for civilian ambience in Arma 2 - I didn't hear about any scandal harming BI Studio business due to abusing women/men in Arma 2. Or custom made women in Arma 3 BTW. 

[gossamersolid 155]

This is never going to happen in arma 3. Let's look at the work that needs to be done:

- new models

- new animations

- multiple new voice protocols for each existing language

- reworking of animation system so that every uniform and vest and such doesn't need to be redone as a female variant.

We can't even adjust our heights or weights in arma. Until that's permitted by the engine (to scale things properly), we're not going to see this.

[IndeedPete 1038]

I think it's a pure cost issue as others have stated before. Let's face it: Arma 3's target audience are men between 18 and old-but-still-young-enough-to-know-computer-games. And at its heart, it is an infantry-centered military sandbox and thus, civilian interactions remain secondary. And while I would really appreciate having female soldiers and civilians, I can fully understand Bohemia's design decision. If it's really modular equipment system vs. female models, the former always wins for me.

 

On a side note, I cannot really get behind that "abuse" reasoning. Why would that be controversial? Because players could create, say, rape scenes? Well, that's the cold hard reality in war zones, no need to sugarcoat it. And to be fair, raping and sexually humiliating male captives as torture with all sorts of unpleasant tools and techniques is a sad reality as well. Even if that sounds a bit cold, but I feel as a creator, I'm not bound to any form real world law or morale within the content. If I want to draw a raping, murdering, torturing bastard as an ideal antagonist, I can very well do so. Hell, I've used racism and N-words quite a few times to describe NPCs. After all, I'm not making content about me and my real personality (which finds all above pretty disgusting). I'm creating purely fictional content that is not designed to advocate certain views or opinions.

[froggyluv 2136]

 Cant be the PR Arma 2 was hookers and secretaries and I remember one small thread about it. Look at GTA, my kid sister used to tell me how she like to run over hookers, beat them with bats and steal their money after killing them and then run over them so more - this at 13yo.

 

 We need them to feel a real populace as it will never, ever, ever feel real without them -its why we fight wars anyway.

[takehomethecup 13]

 Cant be the PR Arma 2 was hookers and secretaries and I remember one small thread about it. Look at GTA, my kid sister used to tell me how she like to run over hookers, beat them with bats and steal their money after killing them and then run over them so more - this at 13yo.

 

 We need them to feel a real populace as it will never, ever, ever feel real without them -its why we fight wars anyway.

Your sister must hate hookers a lot...

[Beagle 684]

The whole "abuse" discussion is misleading. ArmA II had direct display of the consequences of sexual abuse and genocide right in the first mission....so that was no problem in a game in 2009 but is in 2016?

Also what abuse is there in a computr game...all you can do is ragdoll a half naked model around...see Skyrim.

 

To display any abuse is not possible without the right sets of Animations and voice files....and there we are in the realm of odding ad what modding does it not the responsibity of the Developers.

 

What I seek is simply a few native women in the jungle and a few women in the towns that go aftr their business even in a war zone.

 

Just what ArmA II had by default out of the box.

 

and regarding the game value of civilans: I mande a lot of use of the posibiliy in Harvest red to ask civilans if tehy had seen something, wht the place is called or what how the weather will be.

Such features deepen the immersion and are used in role playing games exactly for that reason.

[rimap-p90 15]

Hi everyone!

Thanks for all your comments. I wasn't aware that this subject was so controversial and have been discussed to death since the beginning of Arma3. I'm so disappointed that s such a sensitive subject... But I understand BI's situation too. It just feel weird to play a great open-world game with only men... (imagine a GTA 6 with only guys, I m sure people are going to talk about that too).