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klamacz

AI Driving - Feedback topic

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I am confused - is the AI driving enhancement on a per-vehicle basis? Is it not improvements in the logic for the AI behind the wheel, regardless of what he is currently driving? Bicycle, quadbike, Humvee, truck - same logic, just adjust for size/weight etc. which should be input for the AI routines, right ?

New driving routines are a feature which needs to be enabled per vehicle. All vehicles inheriting from Car class should retain the component and use the new driving system. Thanks to that, mod can use inherited, standard values or override some of them if needed. Some mods I've been checking worked just fine. If you have specific vehicles in mind or you are modding your own and have problems, please share your feedback, here or PM, thanks ;)

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I'm guessing that the latest RHS update is gonna fix it. That said, it's gonna be an epic expansion with a ton of new weapons and vehicles, and as such it's taking some time to develop.

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RHS vehicles. Without a doubt. In my testing when comparing to the videos here, there's no way RHS has inherited from the car class then if that's what it takes to get the new logic. 3CB vehicles also. I love their Jackals and Coyotes a lot so I'll have to see how it goes with them too. And Burnes Foxhound/Huskie as well.

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It's good that you have turned your attention to the AI driving, this will make the AI %50 easier to handle. The AI though, struggle with a whole bunch of other things as well, I went out and made this silly video, that shows me in Zeus mode giving the AI orders, and seeing how they handle performing the orders on their own... I have to say... it's quiet a mess....

 

FYI this is NOT on the developer branch

 

 

This isn't even all of the issues, this is just what I managed to film. I will admit, it must be complicated dealing with AI that has very little in hints around the level itself, and it mostly has to figure out everything on it's own. This though, is a real circus and needs to be fixed, but, to be fair, the AI isn't too bad at following carefully made instructions. If the AI is gonna handle player made scenarios on the fly, then its got to be more then capable of following one simple order, and, by itself, plan all the steps needed to accomplish it.

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Would be possible to test Ai patchfinding by transfering their driveing skills from wheeled vehicles into the tracked? Maybe that would not require so much changes. Off course off road with "combat" behavior would need to little tweak, same with formation keeping. But its worth to try.

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HI @BIS, In the latest update(v1.64), the speed of the AI drivers was increased.(I noticed this if I use a light wheeled vehicles)

It is not clear what is needed. AI is still not able normally to drive the vehicles.

And now (v1.64) this feature worsens AI-driving inside the cities (if a player is commander) and control turns into hell.

 

 

Put in the any Altis city(with lots of houses) Hunter (player as commander) and command the driver to move between houses. 

The AI-driver will constantly collide with buildings, run into the houses, will constantly stuck between objects, because now the movement speed too higher.

In most cases, the player-commander does not have time to give the stop command!

Even when the commander would give the order to "Slow", the AI won't go slow.

This behavior of the AI-drivers is not realistic.

 

BIS, please return the old speed for the AI-drivers of light wheeled vehicles or make them slower inside cities!

Inside cities a lot of objects and it becomes a problem for the AI drivers with high speed.

 


The driver should drive fast, ONLY, if the commander uses the command "Fast

Command - "Forward", or "Slow", should not be fast. Before update to 1.64 these speeds were well balanced..

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Would be possible to test Ai patchfinding by transfering their driveing skills from wheeled vehicles into the tracked? Maybe that would not require so much changes. Off course off road with "combat" behavior would need to little tweak, same with formation keeping. But its worth to try.

 

Soon.

 

 

HI @BIS, In the latest update(v1.64), the speed of the AI drivers was increased.(I noticed this if I use a light wheeled vehicles)
It is not clear what is needed. AI is still not able normally to drive the vehicles.
And now (v1.64) this feature worsens AI-driving inside the cities (if a player is commander) and control turns into hell.
 
 
Put in the any Altis city(with lots of houses) Hunter (player as commander) and command the driver to move between houses. 
The AI-driver will constantly collide with buildings, run into the houses, will constantly stuck between objects, because now the movement speed too higher.
In most cases, the player-commander does not have time to give the stop command!
Even when the commander would give the order to "Slow", the AI won't go slow.
This behavior of the AI-drivers is not realistic.
 
BIS, please return the old speed for the AI-drivers of light wheeled vehicles or make them slower inside cities!
Inside cities a lot of objects and it becomes a problem for the AI drivers with high speed.
 
The driver should drive fast, ONLY, if the commander uses the command "Fast
Command - "Forward", or "Slow", should not be fast. Before update to 1.64 these speeds were well balanced..

 

 

Thank you for the report, yes the speed is too high, I will look into it.

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I've just finished reading the latest SPOTREP and the following part was completely ignored:

 

 

[...]and what still lies ahead.[...] (end of first paragraph)

 

 

So what excactly lies ahead? I was expecting something about tracked vehicles.

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@ klamacz

Thanks for the OPREP and your great progress with AI wheeled driving behavior!

 

Any chance for some (more) indepth review and comments on a programmer level.

There are enough programmers and experienced modder in the community to appreciate some expert talk. :)

 

and what still lies ahead

This is kinda missing, isnt it?

Like asked before I am willing to create more sophisticated demo and test missions.

Yet you need to lay out what you are looking for at this point, what you need and what is still realistically getting looking into (and what is not).

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Good day everyone.

 

So, next step about AI driving is tracked vehicles. As far as I would like to, they will not be part of 1.66 update.

But you can try experimental version on dev branch already, by using command 

useAISteeringComponent true; // true to enable, false to disable, default False

Mind that steering parameters for tanks etc are Work-In-Progress. 

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Good day everyone.

 

So, next step about AI driving is tracked vehicles. As far as I would like to, they will not be part of 1.66 update.

But you can try experimental version on dev branch already, by using command 

useAISteeringComponent true; // true to enable, false to disable, default False

Mind that steering parameters for tanks etc are Work-In-Progress. 

 

Thank for that info, gonna hop in my test mission right away ;)

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Hi.

I have just tested convoys on RC branch. Do not know if the changes are there yet.

I placed a convoy moving from Molos to Kavala on (Move waypoint, behaviour "safe", speed "full").

when moving at some point one of the vehicles stops in the middle of the road and starts moving back and forth as shown on the screenshots.

It happens evey time in various places.

On the screenshots: The lead vehicle is driving on, this second vehicle is stuck driving forward and back  as shown, rest of the column is halted.

20161115151807_1_zps9cgjvvyi.jpg

20161115151805_1_zps4mnahpqv.jpg

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Hi.

I have just tested convoys on RC branch. Do not know if the changes are there yet.

I placed a convoy moving from Molos to Kavala on (Move waypoint, behaviour "safe", speed "full").

when moving at some point one of the vehicles stops in the middle of the road and starts moving back and forth as shown on the screenshots.

It happens evey time in various places.

On the screenshots: The lead vehicle is driving on, this second vehicle is stuck driving forward and back  as shown, rest of the column is halted.

20161115151807_1_zps9cgjvvyi.jpg

20161115151805_1_zps4mnahpqv.jpg

 

I see they're also driving on the wrong side of the road xD

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BAF DLC confirmed? :)

?

 

Anyway, I have been setting up small convoy's with CUP units, sometimes if you place them a little fair away from each other (30m ish between vehicles) they can take some time to catch up. But once they catch up they work well except they show some weird behaviour when going across intersections of roads where they swerve to go around instead of continuing in a straight line like they should.

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It was a joke about how the British drive on the wrong side of the road as well. 

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HI @BIS, In the latest update(v1.64), the speed of the AI drivers was increased.(I noticed this if I use a light wheeled vehicles)
It is not clear what is needed. AI is still not able normally to drive the vehicles.
And now (v1.64) this feature worsens AI-driving inside the cities (if a player is commander) and control turns into hell.
 
 
Put in the any Altis city(with lots of houses) Hunter (player as commander) and command the driver to move between houses. 
The AI-driver will constantly collide with buildings, run into the houses, will constantly stuck between objects, because now the movement speed too higher.
In most cases, the player-commander does not have time to give the stop command!
Even when the commander would give the order to "Slow", the AI won't go slow.
This behavior of the AI-drivers is not realistic.
 
BIS, please return the old speed for the AI-drivers of light wheeled vehicles or make them slower inside cities!
Inside cities a lot of objects and it becomes a problem for the AI drivers with high speed.
 
The driver should drive fast, ONLY, if the commander uses the command "Fast
Command - "Forward", or "Slow", should not be fast. Before update to 1.64 these speeds were well balanced..

 

 

Soon.

 

 

Thank you for the report, yes the speed is too high, I will look into it.

Hi @klamacz, I don't see any changes in the patch 1.66, perhaps you forgot about the issue. 

The driver still moves too fast

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what can we expect for 1.68? Driving in 1.66 is pretty shocking.

 

- Vehicles get stuck randomly for no reason

- forceFollowRoad TRUE drivers still drive around off road

- Vehicles don't know how to share the road with other vehicles

- Zig-zagging at high speed (often leads to crash in faster vehicles)

- Very fast when approaching corners

- They slow to almost a halt when approaching their waypoint.

- ... 

 

I am more than happy to lend a hand but after 6 months of tweaking to vehicle driving we don't have much gain to show for it.

 

Merry christmas team!

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On 20/11/2016 at 1:36 PM, dragon01 said:

It was a joke about how the British drive on the wrong side of the road as well. 

Don't make me go full 'empire' on yer arse !

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On 20/12/2016 at 2:43 AM, fn_Quiksilver said:

what can we expect for 1.68? Driving in 1.66 is pretty shocking.

 

- Vehicles get stuck randomly for no reason

- forceFollowRoad TRUE drivers still drive around off road

- Vehicles don't know how to share the road with other vehicles

- Zig-zagging at high speed (often leads to crash in faster vehicles)

- Very fast when approaching corners

- They slow to almost a halt when approaching their waypoint.

- ... 

 

I am more than happy to lend a hand but after 6 months of tweaking to vehicle driving we don't have much gain to show for it.

 

Merry christmas team!

 

Sadly I'd have to agree with most of this, I hadn't tested them for a while and they still seem extremely poor.

First test run the first vehicle couldn't negotiated the first turn so had to move the waypoints around.

Next when the lead vehicle gets to a junction he wants to turn left before turning right sometimes driving 10-20 meters down the wrong road before trying to do a u-turn.

They also seem to have gone back to stopping at every waypoint, I'm sure they were much smoother several months ago.

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So I created a basic mission on the FATA map, nothing fancy, just a dozen or so enemy AI vehicles from the Project OPFOR and an anti tank element to destroy them, the vehicles and the drivers simply cannot handle the terrain at all, the land rovers are constantly rolling down the side of the hills, and the AI are all over the place, and also driving at fell pelt which is probably why they're rolling their vehicles.

FATA is quite undulating with steep hills, but didn't expect the smaller wheelbase stuff to roll constantly.

Any one else picked up similar issues?

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4 hours ago, road runner said:

Any one else picked up similar issues?

Yep. I'm not on dev branch but this entire thing is frustrating. I know a ton of work went into this, but this whole thing was destined to fail and feels like yet another half-baked feature they've pretty much abandoned.

 

So they give the logic to strictly the vehicle classes rather than the drivers themselves which means most mods don't get the enhancements. And the whole thing seems to be designed to only cater to vanilla open spaces which make most community and A2 maps frustrating as well. FATA, Takistan and Sangin are great examples where the driving is pitiful.

 

Not only that, but Genesis stopped supporting his VCOM AI driving mod thanks to the promises of this unfinished feature. 

 

I feel like this entire thing was poorly planned and considering how much effort it must have taken just to get to this stage with it, makes me feel bad for everyone involved. We have very little to show for what must have been a enormous amount of resources.

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On 11.1.2017 at 6:25 PM, HeroesandvillainsOS said:

Yep. I'm not on dev branch but this entire thing is frustrating. I know a ton of work went into this, but this whole thing was destined to fail and feels like yet another half-baked feature they've pretty much abandoned.

 

So they give the logic to strictly the vehicle classes rather than the drivers themselves which means most mods don't get the enhancements. And the whole thing seems to be designed to only cater to vanilla open spaces which make most community and A2 maps frustrating as well. FATA, Takistan and Sangin are great examples where the driving is pitiful.

 

Not only that, but Genesis stopped supporting his VCOM AI driving mod thanks to the promises of this unfinished feature. 

 

I feel like this entire thing was poorly planned and considering how much effort it must have taken just to get to this stage with it, makes me feel bad for everyone involved. We have very little to show for what must have been a enormous amount of resources.

 

Well.... that's how it always was with Arma 3 Updates :-)   => poorly planned and the impact on existing Arma community content never had a priority.

So many developers left the community because they are fed up by Arma bugdates... and I'm confident that we will have the next big wave in 2017 of people stoping Arma development. 

 

And you are right... AI driving did a big step back with 1.66.

Another example: since 1.66 AI can not drive over bridges... even on vanila maps. Try it on Tanoa.... before 1.66 it was working... now the AI is doing a right turn on the bridge and fall from the bridge. Finaly this destroyed the game play in my missions I'm working on for the last 3 month... 

 

So, let's keep fingers crossed that BI takes all this serious :f:

 

Regards

FirstPanic

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The AI driving is abysmal indeed, and seems to have taken a massive step backwards, even driving on Reshmaan in a straight line, with the New RHS Polaris 4x4's the 2nd vehicle was all over the place and crashed into everything, and eventually flipped over after hitting a couple of small rocks.

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