For Those Complaining About The New Fatigue System.

[rekkless 240]

All this does is open up the game for greater strategy.

There is no army in the world that encourages "Soldier Of Fortune" "Universal Soldier" "Rambo" types.

To me if you think about it BI have been too liberal with the fatigue system.

If you think even in your fittest shape you could throw 20-30 or even 40kg of added weight on your back and sprint for more than 100 meters without slowing down even in the slightest amount you're kidding yourself.

All this system does is make you think about the gear you are carrying in a more realistic and immersive way. Do you want to be a heavy weapons guys with big armor, big weapons who lumbers around the battlefield frequently stopping to rest but is a machine in battle? Or do you want to be a light agile warrior that can run for days but can quickly be taken down? The game gives you that option and there are benefits and cons for going down either path.

Other games do it. From memory Battlefield only allows you to carry 2 primary weapons and counter strike only lets you carry 1 primary weapon. ArmA lets you choose to carry as many as you want but with penalties. These are the choices we make and ArmA doesn’t force you either way unlike something like Battlefield or COD.

All you guys now need to consider is more strategy. Not everyone can run around with 10 first aid kits, 20 mags, a Rocket launcher with 3 rockets and a .50 cal sniper rifle now. You are going to have to work as a team. Perhaps put weapons in the back of your vehicles now like people do in real life. Stash that RPG under the back seat instead of always on your back. Have one marksman in the group with the big rifle and make sure he has an assistant to carry all the necessary accessories and additional ammo.

Your medics now have a more important role than ever. Players can't run around with a surgery's worth of medical equipment in the back pack and enough ammo to invade the middle east alone.

This system is going to force players to work as a team, as a unit and actually strategize on who is taking what and who is responsible for what.

If all you're going to do is jump on a KOTH server or an Invade and Annex server and run around as lone Rambo’s you're all in for a bad time. But if you work with other players (or even the AI) as a unit you will be more powerful and effective than ever.

[KPABATOK 14]

No, this system is gonna force palyers to look for other games or mods to disabled this stupid nonsense that this patch introduced. You can't have realism and still enjoy the game behind the computer. It is either fun or not. This stamina is a type of realism that isn't fun.

[tmp95 16]

And BIS should simply make a turn on / off option for those that don't want it SP .

[alsanjuro 20]

That is why we have mods to counter the forced systems that are over the top. At the moment you get fatigued a lot faster and that means your sway is now gone overboard even ace mod before adjusted the values to stamina.  So if you wanna play as a AT,AA dont cause you wil be fatigued by just moving 5 meters and your weapon is gonna be bouncing all the time and good luck try to aim and i am talking about the default class of AT/AA specialists.  There are a lot of people that play this game SP and the arma AI are dumbest to control half the time.  I play a lot of Whole lotta Altis play as a rifleman where i carry 10mags, 2 granades, 2 smoke, ace mod medical gear like 5 bandages and 2 painkillers and then as soon as i grab an RPG with one missile my guy is panting.  People are already posting mods to counter this which tells you that people dont like this. 

So at the moment your character is fatigued a lot faster means when you try to shoot back you are in a constant struggle with your weapon since holding breath doesnt do anything and even deploying bipods while prone still has your gun bouncing. Their animation for weapon held after walking few paces and then stopping your weapon is behaving like you are on a boat.  The other thing is why is it that when you fire from the hip it has less sway and you can shoot more accurate then when aiming down the sights.

 

For those people who dont like the sway you can use this which is one mod that keeps me playing this game even with all the performance issues and bugs http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26267

 

On the positive note to Bohemia would like to thank them for the game but please fix this or even revert it back to what 1.52 had.

[twakkie 57]

I think the idea is correct but implementation is was a bit wonky. I also agree, even from a non milsim perspective, that loadouts should be balanced. You shouldnt be able to give yourself a rambo kit without some form of negative effect, like rekkless said, you should think about what you carry and not go all Oprah with everything. Also, the idea that you can sprint forever is stupid imo but just as dumb is that now, as AT or AA infantry, you cant walk 5 m without heavy penalty to accuracy. BI basically broke their own class system which is a bit mind boggling. I think the best middle ground is penalty to prolonged sprint or even jogging with a massive loadout but increase accuracy even when overburden or fatigued. 

 

Overall this update was really amasing in many ways and is really pushing ARMA forward. Loving the precision of body armour and body hits. Unfortunately it broke alot of mods, but in a week or two every mod will be back to its former glory and will be even better in most cases. As for the stamina system, in a scripting sense it is MUCH better than the previous version but like I said it was a bit wrongly implemented. It will get fixed, changed and modded so I am not too worried about it. Most people just like to complain and moan (some cases even scream). 

[tacticalsheltie 13]

I love it. I can run indefinitely without slowing down while wearing 90lbs of gear. Now there's basically no incentive to not stop running as you never slow down past a decent job pace and honestly I can still aim pretty well even after running with as high an equip load I can take without being overburdened. I think running 4km non-stop with full load and being able to put rounds into a window while using a navid, while standing, at 300M instantly is pretty easy. Granted it's like one in every 3-5 shots but that still comes out to around 2-3 a second for me.

 

The most annoying thing to me is the scope sway being the CoD super smooth figure 8 sway. That's now how scope sway works in real life. In fact, this smooth scope swaying motion is why I can put rounds into relatively small groups while fatigued fairly easily, as it's super easy to compensate for.

 

On a serious note: this new system is less realistic. It's nice that they added actual equip loads to limit you from taking 200 pounds of gear, but they botched it up by adding infinite run. IMO the scope sway isn't that hard to manage even right after a run.

[Kryptongame 14]

We are complaining more about the sway rather than the stamina system....now, running for 15 metres causes an endless sway on 7.62 that is, let's face it, very far from reality. So why it's in a game promoting realism, idk. Did they not test any of this test with real life soldiers??

[stburr91 1002]

You guys that are supporting this new update completely fail to understand that there are 2 million copies of this game already sold, and that there are many different game play styles within the community. Changing core game play mechanics that make it impossible for many game owners to continue to play the game the way that they want, is going to alienate a large percentage of the community.  

 

It doesn't matter what your play style is, forcing everyone to play that one particular style after the game has been released for over two years is simply the wrong approach. 

[Kryptongame 14]

You guys that are supporting this new update completely fail to understand that there are 2 million copies of this game already sold, and that there are many different game play styles within the community. Changing core game play mechanics that make it impossible for many game owner to continue to play the game the way that they want, is going to alienate a large percentage of the community.  

 

It doesn't matter what your play style is, forcing everyone to play that one particular style after the game has been released for over two years is simply the wrong approach.

Star wars galaxies created some 'revolutionary' combat update that radically altered the game everyone had came to love. It then died shortly thereafter. Learn from that and all other similar situations.

[Beagle 684]

No, this system is gonna force palyers to look for other games or mods to disabled this stupid nonsense that this patch introduced. You can't have realism and still enjoy the game behind the computer. It is either fun or not. This stamina is a type of realism that isn't fun.

In fact I have noticed a massice decrease (50%) of players on CTI servers this friday afternoon, while I see a increase in ArmA 2 CTI players.

[Kryptongame 14]

In fact I have noticed a massice decrease (50%) of players on CTI servers this friday afternoon, while I see a increase in ArmA 2 CTI players.

I have lost a big interest in playing. Even servers that disable stamina have an overwhelming weapon sway still.

[maquez 141]

There is no army in the world that encourages "Soldier Of Fortune" "Universal Soldier" "Rambo" types.

 

 

I loved ofp/arma series always for it's play as you like philosophy but these stamina and sway effects are the pure opposite of it.

The biggest mistake of BI is that these effects are not optional and easy to select thru game configuration.

 

If someone likes to play as you say "Soldier Of Fortune" "Universal Soldier" "Rambo" style, does it insult/hurt you?

 

I hate to quote myself but:

This is still a game and should make fun for all

 

someone speaking about realism in a game make me always giggle

little advice to all realism junkies out here, go in your country head army office and sign to serve army then you will have realism.

[Beagle 684]

 

little advice to all realism junkies out here, go in your country head army office and sign to serve army then you will have realism.

Been there donen that already....20 years ago!

That is where I got my reference from what is reasonable in such a combat game and what is not.

[Hud Dorph 22]

I have lost a big interest in playing. Even servers that disable stamina have an overwhelming weapon sway still.

Try the [HUD]Domination server - sway is all off.

[froggyluv 2136]

Sorry but that's ridiculous marquez - equivalent of going to space game forum, mocking them over Newtonian physics that they need to "go join NASA"...

I like my video games as far from fireballs, unicorns, trolls, combos and falcon punches as possible. Basically what I look for is a platform that allows a sandbox environment to play act out on various things using my own reflexes in a way to test out things like hunting, soldiering, swordplay whatever. The closer it stays to "only possible in the real world" the better for me. That's why I've always preferred arma to the cod bunch as that's just not how people move.

Reminds me of trying to get my kid sister, also an avid gamer into games like Warband. She hated it because "it felt too real and therefore too hard". She wanted swords with spells, fireballs and magic shields - not blink of an eye parrying a directional blocking. I told her I liked games that let me play out as I really would in real life, bound by real limitations. That baffled the fuck out her, as she said "well I don't feel strong in real life, so I want to feel powerful in games!"

And there we have it

[Beagle 684]

This situation shows the whole decline of simulation games right now. What is left? DCS:W?

[rekkless 240]

While I have no problem with Fatigue System, after last nights game the weapon sway is a bit over exaggerated than it needs to be especially since the AI doesn't suffer from it. But I mean there is nothing game breaking.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

Missions also need to be adapted to Stamina/Fatigue.

 

Most popular scenarios are established 1-2+ years old. People have a comfort zone/playstyle, and also the scenario will be 'fitted' in such a way to facilitate fun in the current settings.

 

Changing parameters of the experience (such as adding weight limit and stamina) also necessitates changing the scenario.

 

For instance, running a COOP mission the past couple days, I'd had to reduce the number of enemy armored targets, since the soldiers running Anti-Tank couldn't carry more than 1 rocket.

 

Little things, but important things.

[major_barnes1987 33]

I agree with rekkless!There is more depth and teamwork this way.Each player has a role.I know casual players will complain about it so maybe a way to turn it on/off would be the best idea for B.I. to keep everyone happy. ;)

[KPABATOK 14]

Other games do it. From memory Battlefield only allows you to carry 2 primary weapons and counter strike only lets you carry 1 primary weapon. ArmA lets you choose to carry as many as you want but with penalties. These are the choices we make and ArmA doesn’t force you either way unlike something like Battlefield or COD.

 

A simple fact that you compare it with arcade games like battle field and counter strike is enough to discredit your entire post. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Are you telling me in real life I can not carry 2 guns on me? Seriously go back to CS GO forums preaching, because you lost me on counter strike as "example" for realism. Counter strike unlike Arma 3 doesn't even have weapon sway.

[mamasan8 11]

A simple fact that you compare it with arcade games like battle field and counter strike is enough to discredit your entire post. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Are you telling me in real life I can not carry 2 guns on me? Seriously go back to CS GO forums preaching, because you lost me on counter strike as "example" for realism. Counter strike unlike Arma 3 doesn't even have weapon sway.

 

 

 

Realism point to CS. IRL guns don't have sway either.

[en3x 209]

We should take account the fact that we can exhaust yourself after traveling kilometers.Counter strike has small maps.

[pd3 25]

Realism point to CS. IRL guns don't have sway either.

That's actually not true.

It's not exaggerated, but it most certainly exists, especially if you're wheeling around your perspective at high speeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Q1s7HXYeXeU#t=103

 

For the record, I believe a lot of the "tweaking" aspects of the game really should have been left alone, especially the exaggerated fatigue, that could have easily been something that players could have created with addons had they actually wanted it to be that prominent a feature in the game.

As for the new hitpoint based body damage system, if it causes an extensive resource footprint, it simply isn't worthwhile, that's something that you keep on the books for the next game.

Constantly forcing the performance to jump plus or minus ten frames per second unless it's accidental is unnecessary, it's far better to accept the game as it is, and as the majority of players accept it and work on optimization. The devs could have always considered these new mechanics for the next installment instead of screwing around with a game that is already 2 years old in such a way that it drastically changes it in a way that most people don't want to deal with.

[OMAC 254]

I could handle the new fatigue and sway if they felt realistic and natural, so that you just accept them and deal with them, more or less without thinking.  The sway (and INTENSE kick on some sniper rifles) is exaggerated and seems like an artificial gimmick to make the game more difficult and reduce effectiveness of snipers.  As such, the sway should be reduced IMO.  Sometimes the sway gets wildly out of whack, even with binoculars, and ruins immersion for some seconds.  The fatigue is less of a problem, but seems overthought and is more distracting than anything else.  Why is the little terrain symbol shown when going up hill?  Is that necessary?  People know when they are going uphill, as you are forced to walk when the slope becomes very steep.*

 

Even when your LMG is fully deployed with bipod and player isn't exhausted, aiming accuracy is too low and recoil seems exaggerated and excessive.  Recoil should be much less for heavy weapons with bipod deployed.  The Marksman LMGs are 100% useless when player is crouched and weapon is rested against wall, bipod not deployed.  This should not be the case.  I think that for first 10-20 shots, when player is not exhausted, the recoil should be reduced, and then increase as the player's arms and shoulders get tired.  The result of all this is that Arma 2 Combined Operations is simply more fun, and more natural, to play.

 

These excessive tweaks by BI at this late stage of A3 are questionable and perhaps should have been left for the next game, as pd3 wrote above.  How many missions made over the last 2 years will require tweaking to handle the new fatigue/resting/recoil/sway? 

 

Other notes:  there are still problems with weapon deployment, even on flat surfaces, as suddenly the player's view is occluded by strange polygons of unknown origin.  And the animations of reloading Marksman LMGs don't always show the ammo belts, especially when you are rearming out of a crate.

 

* Edit.  I don't mean to be over-critical of the terrain icon.  As far as icons and on-screen indicators go, BI absolutely rules.  The entire stamina-related GUI element is very well designed, simple, un-intrusive, and intuitive.  BI's expertise with icons has been well proven as far back as TOH, with those awesome icons for cockpit controls.  BI followed through mightily with the A3 weapon resting/deployment indicators which simply cannot be improved upon IMO.

 

However, I have noticed in 1.54 that I cannot reliably get the weapon-related GUI (ammo, stance, etc.) to display at upper right, at least with machine guns.  F key does not display it, as the MGs are full-auto only.  Perhaps this is by design, I don't know.  I wish there was an Arma 2-like way to display GUI without changing weapon mode. 

 

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=11151

 

And note Variable's comment at the end of this ticket:

 

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=19618

[Sgt Smash 34]

I like the new stamina system, be the gun sway is as fake as it gets!