To the modders

[robert31178 100]

I'm sure I'll piss a couple of people off here, but.......

 

Since joining the community in March I've noticed two distinct types of modders, and almost without fail I can expect this it seems like: either super helpful, or just ultra surly. The reason why I've kinda had it with the attitudes is because not only did I not grow up with computers and am noticeably behind most folks 10 years younger than me, I've also just joined Arma 3 after a 12 year stint at IL2, probably the world's easiest to mod game ever. I've asked for help on numerous occasions and initially received help, but when I ask for a little further instruction I get responses that indicate that I am a pest, and, well sorry for not being up to speed on my Arma alright?

 

I am a Surfman in the USCG. If you don't know what this job is, we specialize in extreme weather search and rescue. We train for years to even get to do this job, then they keep us for years and years doing it because of our experience. The people I work with are some of the best boat drivers in the world.....Do you have any clue how much shit I would be in if someone who just bought a boat came up to me and I treated them like they were wasting my time?

 

C'mon guys, I get that you are way above my level of understanding of things here, that's why people like me go to you when we have questions!! Stow the attitudes, you aren't Olympic gods, you're people who have a knack for computers and Arma and 3D modelling and code writing and such. It'd be nice if some of you would remember that, and maybe be approachable, because it reflects poorly on you when people don't want to bother with asking you questions on a personal level because they know they are going to get treated with sarcasm and disdain. 

 

~S

[warden_1 1070]

You probably were not in the right place to ask about addon creation or you were as stubborn as you appear with this post to them, either way I can understand why someone would be frustrated with you. The Arma engine is like the bully on the playground and you have to find a way to negotiate with it... Depending on what type of modding you wish to do there is a lot more to learn before even beginning the Arma portion... What exactly are you wanting to do?

[BadHabitz 235]

A few things...

 

You have no idea how many other people are also contacting mod creators behind the scenes with questions or asking for advice. You get asked for some help, and then a little more, and even more then, and it feels like like you're the one doing the work for someone else.

Some modders just don't bother to help others, and that's their right. If they were kind enough to give you at least a little help then you should be appreciate, and it doesn't mean that they need to continue further.

 

Also, this is not the correct area of the forums for this type of discussion.

[Macser 776]

This forum is just like every other place you might visit physically or digitally. I still don't know why people refer to this kind of activity as some "other" life. As if we phase into an alternate dimension when online. :D

 

So you'll get the full range of responses you'd expect to meet offline. You'll see elitism and aloof behaviour as often as helpfulness and genuine interest in what you're doing. The best you can do, which is the same anywhere else, is to identify the people who strike you as being "surly", and avoid them.

 

Obviously that's not possible in a thread. But you can still ignore posts.

 

Some folks will assume that you want to fast track your knowledge by availing of their experience, without having done anything yourself in the way of research. I'm still trying to understand why people feel the need to guard that info so jealously. But that attitude does exist. 

 

To add to what BadHabitz mentions, it's quite possible you're in a long line of people sending pms requesting assistance. Some modders, especially if it's obvious they know what they're doing, will get to a point where their inbox can't cope. There's only so much they can do before they have to close the helpdesk. They too are here to discuss share and enjoy. That might well result in them being cranky from time to time.

 

One other thing to remember. If the stats are correct, there's somewhere in the region of 378,000 members total. With maybe 10-16k members actually online at peak( Likely far less day to day). The people you meet aren't going to be representative of the whole. :)

[RhodesianScout 189]

To be honest I have not seen anyone giving other people bad attitude ....but hey I am sure it may happen from time to time

 

 

 

Not sure what issues you have being getting but if you come across people who are calling you a pest just ignore them.... ask the question again and I am sure that someone else will help you out.

 

Being a public forum you are going to get all types of people in here of different ages ....... the super helpful and the ultra surly. Communicating in a forum can lead to miscommunication and some people may read something different into what you posted. 

 

One thing I have learned in forums.... be wary of how others may read your post. The way you were talking in your last paragraph probably will not help your cause. I get it that you are ticked off by how a few people have responded to you but I never write a message in any forum while angry or upset. To be honest if I saw a post from someone telling us to stow the attitudes and that we are not Olympic gods I would be less likely to help you out in case I got my head bitten off.

 

Also, as BadHabitz mentioned, this part of the forum is not where this discussion belongs. This area is for discussing addons or mods that are currently work in progress, as well as for discussing ideas or requests for addons.

[Belbo 462]

To be honest I have not seen anyone giving other people bad attitude ....but hey I am sure it may happen from time to time

Let me rephrase that to reflect my personal experience: I have not seen anyone giving other people bad attitude if they haven't, in any way, deserved it.

 

In a lot of cases people ask the same questions over and over again ("Which key does X?"; "Where is classname Y?"). That in and of itself isn't wrong or a way to deserve flak. But given the load of questions modders are being asked, a little initiative from the questioner could prevent these queries in most cases. I've seen people ask a question that has been answered just one page prior to their post. I can't rightfully criticize someone who gets offended by someone who isn't even willing to do the tiniest bit of research for himself. I wouldn't answer these questions myself.

The lazy on the other hand are in good company with the rude - people telling a modder that he did a terrible job and should fix it, even though it's mostly their fault or their ignorance that led to them not being able to use a mods full potential. That's no way to treat a person's work or even be practical about one's aims.

 

In almost every other case I experienced the modders in the ArmA community have been unusually kind and helpful. That's not saying you have been lazy or rude - just that a generalization of a singular experience is not justifiable.

[PuFu 4600]

I'm sure I'll piss a couple of people off here, but.......

 

Since joining the community in March I've noticed two distinct types of modders, and almost without fail I can expect this it seems like: either super helpful, or just ultra surly. The reason why I've kinda had it with the attitudes is because not only did I not grow up with computers and am noticeably behind most folks 10 years younger than me, I've also just joined Arma 3 after a 12 year stint at IL2, probably the world's easiest to mod game ever. I've asked for help on numerous occasions and initially received help, but when I ask for a little further instruction I get responses that indicate that I am a pest, and, well sorry for not being up to speed on my Arma alright?

 

I am a Surfman in the USCG. If you don't know what this job is, we specialize in extreme weather search and rescue. We train for years to even get to do this job, then they keep us for years and years doing it because of our experience. The people I work with are some of the best boat drivers in the world.....Do you have any clue how much shit I would be in if someone who just bought a boat came up to me and I treated them like they were wasting my time?

 

C'mon guys, I get that you are way above my level of understanding of things here, that's why people like me go to you when we have questions!! Stow the attitudes, you aren't Olympic gods, you're people who have a knack for computers and Arma and 3D modelling and code writing and such. It'd be nice if some of you would remember that, and maybe be approachable, because it reflects poorly on you when people don't want to bother with asking you questions on a personal level because they know they are going to get treated with sarcasm and disdain. 

 

~S

1. post in the editing section, don't send random people PMs

2. post aimed question that shows that you have at least tried to do some of it by yourself, 

3. do NOT post things like: i wanna model a motorcycle and get it in the game - how can i do that? The question is soo fucking generic i for once would spend less time doing it myself than explaining it to someone else.

4. People are pretty friendly here. That said, if you expect someone to simply hold your hand through the entire process, you are in for a let down. Not sure who the surly ones are, and what your direct experience was, but from the years i have been on these forums and on the skype modelling group, i haven't seen a single guy who sent me walking when i've asked a question about something in particular and explained the ways i have tried to do it...

[smokedog3para 365]

Google it like I do, there is plenty of tutorials and info it may be spread far and wide over the net but it is there also join the modeling group on skype, it ain't going to be easy and your go grey, bald, or lose your mind with these tools but crack on

[Von Quest 1163]

First, thank you for your service. US Coast Guard - that's pretty awesome.

Second, what exactly is it you need guidance in? Please be specific. ;)

[TurtleImpaler 197]

Hey man,

 

As someone who started out last year in modding, i gotta say that modding in Arma is a rollercoaster. When you start you gotta realize a few things:

 

1. Documentation on modding or back end arma stuff is limited, which makes modding difficult.

2. Modders with experience get about 10+ PMs a day about modding and generally do not have the time for everyone and could be stressed from it.

3. Best way to learn is from a team or one of the skype groups. They are literally pools of knowledge.

 

You can always shoot some of the more "talkative" teams a PM and start learning. If you wanna know a bit more about modding, shoot me a PM sometime since im always in front of a computer :p

[chops 111]

I realise it would be poor form to quote a 'surly' member's answer to your question, but context is important.

 

As others have said, if you ask "how do I get a model in game?", you deserve what's coming  :P 

 

I've almost always been provided with detailed answers to my questions, because, having seen how the experienced, well-regarded modders conduct themselves, I try to exhaust all other options before starting new threads or chiming in in other people's.

 

Describe what you're trying to do and why you want to do it in detail, what the problem you're having is, what you've already tried to do to fix it and what results those attempts had. Post pictures and videos. Refer to threads you've already searched.

A lot of inference/tone/humour gets lost in text and not everyone here speaks English as a first language.

 

Don't ever start a thread called "Please help!!!!" there's a special circle of hell reserved for those people. :angry:

[haleks 8212]

1. Documentation on modding or back end arma stuff is limited, which makes modding difficult.

 

...not!

The documentation is there, provided that you have the courage to go through the wiki.

Everything is in there, sometimes well explained, sometimes less, but there are sources of information indeed.

 

Whatever question the wiki may rise has usually been answered already on a forum or another : it's just a matter of actually looking for it.

[caseychapman 8]

Warning: This post may contain some sarcasm and dry humor, proceed at your own risk.

 

So just to get this first part in my head because I can't quite understand your logic within this post in any way shape or form, your making a post on a public forum (in the wrong section FYI) stating that people are not helpful and you honestly talk like a complete d*ck about them and how apparently did not help you. Ok so maybe I can comprehend you being upset about people maybe being unwilling to help you but what the hell do you hope to achieve by posting here in this forum post? 

 

Questionable logic aside learning how to modify Arma has very little if not nothing to do with knowing lots about computers themselves, yes it can help but you can just as easily learn if your willing to put in the time and learn to not let the frustration of something not working get to you. Within the Arma communities (there are many communities and sub-communities) there are plenty of resources to help you learn everything you could ever need, you simply need to look harder sometimes to find them.

 

Examples:

 

• Learning Modeling: Literally hundreds if not thousands of videos exist on YouTube and other similar networks that explain how to make models, for the most part it can carry over to Arma.
• Learning to script: There are pages upon pages of wiki content on the official wiki that explain what each class, variable and everything else do and examples of how to use them. Not to mention the millions of lines of hard work and dedication from mission makers that release or host their missions that can be explored and figured out.
• Learning to configure mods/configs: There are YouTube videos (mostly for A3 but 99% of this can carry over) explaining how to use Object Builder, there are tons of free sample files available in the steam tools library under the name Arma 3 Samples and there are thousands of mods out there that you can also explore to figure out how they did cool things.

In terms of your apparent experience with certain modders within the community when you ask them for help their response is likely as bad as it is for a few reasons:

 

• The question may be extremely silly and easy to figure out on your own with a bit of effort or use of Google.
• If your using the style of writing that you are here (being obnoxious, non-polite and slightly annoying grammar - that ones not so bad but annoys be a fair bit) then I to would likely only give you the initial help requested.
• It's also likely that they only gave you the initial response because the response they gave was enough for you to work out the rest on your own or Google it (you will never learn otherwise).
• A few will likely of been older, fed up veterans of the Arma modding community who have dealt with similar questions for a number of years, imagine being asked every single day how to turn the engine on for a boat, eventually it will become irritating, especially when the answer is already all over Google or in this case places like the forums.

So fair enough your a Surfman in the USCG (I am British so do not know how good or bad that position is), good for you. Please for the love of my patience and that of other people here don't come to a place that is new to you then throw around a completely irrelevant bit of outside information to make yourself feel important, even if your trying to make a point and use it as an example. Saying that you would be in shit as a hired professional for treating someone who you meet whilst working like shit is a given fact, just like the fact that the vast majority of modders for Arma do not do this as a full time job and instead do it as a hobby so your comparison is completely irrelevant.

 

By the way as a side note there are multiple existent Skype chats used to answer questions as using a forum system for it is simply not as effective, a little use of Google and you can find them.

 

Last but not least  your telling people who you expected help from to "stow the attitude" whilst expecting help, don't expect to receive it any time soon if you speak to them like that. Saying that we have a "knack for computers and Arma" is honestly hugely disrespectful, how would you like it if we rented a boat and followed your boat in the middle of a rescue operation and used a megaphone to shout "This is not so hard, your just capable of using a few bits of equipment to save someone! My grandma could do this!"? I have a feeling you would not like it so do not do it to us. It would be very nice if you could please remember that everyone here also has a real life and are not just here to serve you thus you will continue to receive sarcastic replies as long as you act the way you are now.

 

~ Insert sassy letter here that has no relevance to my own name or anything else, purely for dramatic effect and a pretty shitty exit/finale. 

[Drongo69 117]

If your feelings are getting hurt by us wimpy computer dorks, you can always leave.

[opteryx 1562]

Don't PM people about random modding questions.

Join the skype modding groups, there you can ask questions till your faces goes blue.

[Jackal326 1181]

Warning: This post may contain some sarcasm and dry humor, proceed at your own risk.

 

So just to get this first part in my head because I can't quite understand your logic within this post in any way shape or form, your making a post on a public forum (in the wrong section FYI) stating that people are not helpful and you honestly talk like a complete d*ck about them and how apparently did not help you. Ok so maybe I can comprehend you being upset about people maybe being unwilling to help you but what the hell do you hope to achieve by posting here in this forum post? 

 

Questionable logic aside learning how to modify Arma has very little if not nothing to do with knowing lots about computers themselves, yes it can help but you can just as easily learn if your willing to put in the time and learn to not let the frustration of something not working get to you. Within the Arma communities (there are many communities and sub-communities) there are plenty of resources to help you learn everything you could ever need, you simply need to look harder sometimes to find them.

 

Examples:

 

• Learning Modeling: Literally hundreds if not thousands of videos exist on YouTube and other similar networks that explain how to make models, for the most part it can carry over to Arma.
• Learning to script: There are pages upon pages of wiki content on the official wiki that explain what each class, variable and everything else do and examples of how to use them. Not to mention the millions of lines of hard work and dedication from mission makers that release or host their missions that can be explored and figured out.
• Learning to configure mods/configs: There are YouTube videos (mostly for A3 but 99% of this can carry over) explaining how to use Object Builder, there are tons of free sample files available in the steam tools library under the name Arma 3 Samples and there are thousands of mods out there that you can also explore to figure out how they did cool things.

In terms of your apparent experience with certain modders within the community when you ask them for help their response is likely as bad as it is for a few reasons:

 

• The question may be extremely silly and easy to figure out on your own with a bit of effort or use of Google.
• If your using the style of writing that you are here (being obnoxious, non-polite and slightly annoying grammar - that ones not so bad but annoys be a fair bit) then I to would likely only give you the initial help requested.
• It's also likely that they only gave you the initial response because the response they gave was enough for you to work out the rest on your own or Google it (you will never learn otherwise).
• A few will likely of been older, fed up veterans of the Arma modding community who have dealt with similar questions for a number of years, imagine being asked every single day how to turn the engine on for a boat, eventually it will become irritating, especially when the answer is already all over Google or in this case places like the forums.

So fair enough your a Surfman in the USCG (I am British so do not know how good or bad that position is), good for you. Please for the love of my patience and that of other people here don't come to a place that is new to you then throw around a completely irrelevant bit of outside information to make yourself feel important, even if your trying to make a point and use it as an example. Saying that you would be in shit as a hired professional for treating someone who you meet whilst working like shit is a given fact, just like the fact that the vast majority of modders for Arma do not do this as a full time job and instead do it as a hobby so your comparison is completely irrelevant.

 

By the way as a side note there are multiple existent Skype chats used to answer questions as using a forum system for it is simply not as effective, a little use of Google and you can find them.

 

Last but not least  your telling people who you expected help from to "stow the attitude" whilst expecting help, don't expect to receive it any time soon if you speak to them like that. Saying that we have a "knack for computers and Arma" is honestly hugely disrespectful, how would you like it if we rented a boat and followed your boat in the middle of a rescue operation and used a megaphone to shout "This is not so hard, your just capable of using a few bits of equipment to save someone! My grandma could do this!"? I have a feeling you would not like it so do not do it to us. It would be very nice if you could please remember that everyone here also has a real life and are not just here to serve you thus you will continue to receive sarcastic replies as long as you act the way you are now.

 

~ Insert sassy letter here that has no relevance to my own name or anything else, purely for dramatic effect and a pretty shitty exit/finale. 

You sir, just won the Internet, but you'll have to share it with PuFu because he too won the Internet just a few posts prior). Have a cookie each  :D

[x3kj 1247]

 

Do you have any clue how much shit I would be in if someone who just bought a boat came up to me and I treated them like they were wasting my time?

Modding is not a job. Modding is a hobby. We don't get payed to answer or make stuff.

[McLupo 118]

I personally have never made that experience. As a newbie I have had a lot of questions, but I studied all the stuff by myself at first then I clarified it with some competent guys here on the forum.
And believe me I never got an rude answer.
Very simple - ask in a respectful way, never ask in an arrogate way and don´t forget to say thank you, nor take it as a matter of course and you are good to go.  :)

 

It´s so simple... ;)

 

Greetings
McLupo