ACE3 - A collaborative merger between AGM, CSE, and ACE

[Cerarco 10]

does anyone have the classnames for all the medical equipment?

If you got into the config viewer, they are very easy to find. Should be under config weapons i believe.

[noubernou 77]

Regarding dismemberment it is a hard balance I find ethically in how Arma is used and portrayed. For a game which prides itself on fidelity (or they used to claim that), and ACE itself continuing that tradition, in ground combat realism, the game is almost perverted in how non-violent it is. War is a horrible, messy business, and pretty much the lowest form of human existence for all involved, it is not something that should be "cleaned up" in my opinion when being depicted. Adding it would bring a guttural reality to a game that makes it otherwise seem like war is clean and non-bloody.

The problem is though it is still a game, and the people that have gone to hell and back in real life shouldn't have to be forced to experience that reality again if they do not want to.

It is really a hard choice to make, at least for me, in terms of what can I do vs. what should I do.

[naizarak 4]

can't you guys make it a visual client-side option?

[jaynus 10]

While on the topic of triggering real conditions, I'd like to request the feature to turn off the tinnitus, or "combat deafness" as it was known client-side in CSE. I love the effect and want it in for myself and the others, except I have at least 4 members in my community who suffer from tinnitus in real life, and the sound tends to trigger it for them when they forget to put in earplugs, or when they respawn next to explosions without earplugs and such, so it'd be great if they could have an option to turn off the ringing sound, but keep the deafness.

Keep up the amazing work guys, I'm insanely excited about all this.

This is already done, and is configurable via ACE Settings. This was actually a thing discussed, worked for and implemented :)

Additionally, you may want your community members to try it out again - the frequencies have also been changed from the ones in CSE, specifically to not trigger Tinnitus pain. As a fellow horrible tinnitus person, I can tell you the new sounds fall outside the pain frequency.

[germ 10]

It's pretty simple, if they don't want to see it in their game, they can just not install ACE. Problem solved. I don't see how seeing some corny "gore" in a video game would trigger anything. I look at gore sites as entertainment, and it doesn't bother me one bit. My uncle is a Paramedic, and I don't hear him ever crying about ptsd or "gore" in video games, non sense. If your ptsd is that severe, then just playing Arma would trigger it. You notice that not one actual verteran has come forward and said, "yeah, if ace has gore I won't play it" It's speculation, and it's just people who are nancies. VBS has dismemberment. And that's what the U.S. Army uses to train soldiers.

God I miss the first soldier of fortune, and will never understand why more games don't attempt to use a damage model like it did.

Edited April 19, 2015 by germ

[gibonez 18]

Simply by watching that video I can see great potential due to dismemberment and or any other realism increases in the damage model.

I really don't see how some people can be concerned about such things being too much. With dismemberment being in will you somehow forget that the game is fiction, and how do you treat the dozens upon dozens of other games that deal with dismemberment in far more brutal ways that I think is even possible in Arma.

[noubernou 77]

It's pretty simple, if they don't want to see it in their game, they can just not install ACE. Problem solved. I don't see how seeing some corny "gore" in a video game would trigger anything. I look at gore sites as entertainment, and it doesn't bother me one bit. My uncle is a Paramedic, and I don't hear him ever crying about ptsd or "gore" in video games, non sense. If your ptsd is that severe, then just playing Arma would trigger it. You notice that not one actual verteran has come forward and said, "yeah, if ace has gore I won't play it" It's speculation, and it's just people who are nancies. VBS has dismemberment. And that's what the U.S. Army uses to train soldiers.

God I miss the first soldier of fortune, and will never understand why more games don't attempt to use a damage model like it did.

That'd be a large chunk of players. I know a lot of players who actually have done combat deployments.

[Takoda 10]

That VBS2 advanced damage video is amazing.

[Rolling 1]

That VBS2 advanced damage video is amazing.

Agreed. Even if gore doesn't make it in, the body armor simulation is a must-have.

[dimon 32]

It's pretty simple, if they don't want to see it in their game, they can just not install ACE. Problem solved. I don't see how seeing some corny "gore" in a video game would trigger anything. I look at gore sites as entertainment, and it doesn't bother me one bit. My uncle is a Paramedic, and I don't hear him ever crying about ptsd or "gore" in video games, non sense. If your ptsd is that severe, then just playing Arma would trigger it. You notice that not one actual verteran has come forward and said, "yeah, if ace has gore I won't play it" It's speculation, and it's just people who are nancies. VBS has dismemberment. And that's what the U.S. Army uses to train soldiers.

God I miss the first soldier of fortune, and will never understand why more games don't attempt to use a damage model like it did.

That's right - you need to decide: either we do ACE or another mod by creating a sign by ACE.

[bfgfreak 15]

What's wrong with just modularizing it so that those that want severed limbs (un)rendered can have missing limbs, those that are more squimish about such things can not have limbs removed and the medical system will just say the limb is unusably damaged. as far as the medical system is concerned they're both at the same unusable damage state, it's just clientside one guy will see both limbs on a guy and another will only see one limb and a bloody stump for the other.

[rye1 21]

It's pretty simple, if they don't want to see it in their game, they can just not install ACE. Problem solved. I don't see how seeing some corny "gore" in a video game would trigger anything. I look at gore sites as entertainment, and it doesn't bother me one bit. My uncle is a Paramedic, and I don't hear him ever crying about ptsd or "gore" in video games, non sense. If your ptsd is that severe, then just playing Arma would trigger it. You notice that not one actual verteran has come forward and said, "yeah, if ace has gore I won't play it" It's speculation, and it's just people who are nancies. VBS has dismemberment. And that's what the U.S. Army uses to train soldiers.

God I miss the first soldier of fortune, and will never understand why more games don't attempt to use a damage model like it did.

While I agree with most of your post, I think you're being a little insensitive. You don't hear him crying because that's often the case. PTSD is the hidden killer. Our first rotation we lost over seventy paramedic students for various reasons, some could not handle what they saw on road including a rollover where a child and adult died. Some people may not like to use it for their own personal reasons, none the less I think it's unfair to neglect the whole community because of a few so I agree with you.

My question would be how would a medical system work around dismemberment? If this has already been answered please throw up the post and I'll read it. Thanks.

[Mirek 166]

Put the dismemberment there put it as an optional modules (dismemberment without screrams, Dismemberment Hardcore )

People in whom it might recall bad memories, likeveterans or medical care profesionals, and people who have no such memories, but are just pussies, can chose to not to use the module.

[gibonez 18]

Is it intentional for players to remain revive-able regardless of the extent of their injuries ?

For instance if I shoot someone in the head 10 times I am still able to revive them given enough time before they bleed out.

Wouldn't severe wounds like heart,head, explosive injuries almost always be instant death and non revive-able ? Although I do like the idea of the menu giving the medic false hope in a revive even though it is impossible to revive certain injuries .

[laxemann 1673]

I'd like to see more graphical depiction of body damage. Making it optional would be a win win for everyone, I guess.

I just wonder, Nou, did you find a way to hide body parts without being able to se through the body/model?

[Brisse 78]

What's the actual gameplay value for dismemberment in Arma3/ACE3?

I have played a lot of games with this feature, but honestly, most of those games did not focus on authenticity at all.

Do I feel like something is missing (dismemberment) when I play Arma? No, not really.

Do I want to be reminded of Unreal Tournament, Quake and Soldier of Fortune when I play Arma? No, not really.

[bfgfreak 15]

Well like I said before, Dismemberment visuals should be in the options menu for ACE and not a mission module, the mission module will simply determine if excessive damage will result in unhealable dismemberment. I created a little gif to sort of show what I'm talking about

http://i.imgur.com/SM0PkXr.gif (616 kB)

Anyway the basic concept here is that those who have the option turned on get to see their gory giblets spread across the hallways when they experience enough damage to gib while those without it can still take advantage of ACE3 since the medical dude will show when legs are rendered "unusable" by displaying them as black. The only real difference as far as I can tell is that one will know before he interacts with the guy that he's not completely savable while someone with the option turned off won't know the leg is blown off until they inspect him and see that the limb is rendered in black. In addition, the mission module that manages advanced damage will also have dismemberment toggled off as default since you're effectively mission-killed once you lose an arm unless you have a medical facility that grafts robot limbs in your mod list that can turn you around in a reasonable time before the session ends. Ultimately though, I think that last point might be the biggest reason to not have dismemberment as 99.9 percent of units are set in the modern era plus or minus 30 years.

[gibonez 18]

What's the actual gameplay value for dismemberment in Arma3/ACE3?

Well for one it would better represent serious injuries to the player immediately.

High caliber machinegun wounds to limbs, IED's , Explosives all have the potential to render a player limbless. Seeing the player lose a limb would also open the doors for untreatable injuries where the extent of the injury is too much forcing the player to bleed out regardless of the amount of work the medic puts into him or for some missions forcing a medivac of that player to a field hospital of some kind.

[legolasindar 3]

This is a combat simulator, so the moral questions about war are very ironic. No one seems bad shooting, killing, bombing, murder, and many other things (killing civilians in the simulator makes most people), but if someone mentions dismemberment, and seems to be a contentious (controversial) topic.

For me the question is clear, this is a combat simulator, and ACE 3 tries to improve the realism, therefore, dismemberment offers greater realism, immersive level as logistics. It makes us more concerned cover ourselves to ourselves, our colleagues, and makes the role of doctor is more complex've interesting, not simply arrive, patching and return to combat.

We are civilians who play at being soldiers in a war of pink.:rolleyes:

P.D: My English is not very good, so I may not be able to express how I wanted :p

[sorophx 25]

Seeing the player lose a limb would also open the doors for untreatable injuries where the extent of the injury is too much forcing the player to bleed out regardless of the amount of work the medic puts into him.

that's different from outright killing the player and having a long respawn only aesthetically. on a gameplay level it doesn't offer anything new.

now, if that sort of system allowed the player to stay in the fight, enduring through pain, while waiting for CASEVAC, that would be something interesting. the others would have to stay with him, that would put pressure on the commanding officer. it would also enforce the use of PJs in missions.

[tsean 11]

Regarding dismemberment it is a hard balance I find ethically in how Arma is used and portrayed. For a game which prides itself on fidelity (or they used to claim that), and ACE itself continuing that tradition, in ground combat realism, the game is almost perverted in how non-violent it is. War is a horrible, messy business, and pretty much the lowest form of human existence for all involved, it is not something that should be "cleaned up" in my opinion when being depicted. Adding it would bring a guttural reality to a game that makes it otherwise seem like war is clean and non-bloody.

The problem is though it is still a game, and the people that have gone to hell and back in real life shouldn't have to be forced to experience that reality again if they do not want to.

It is really a hard choice to make, at least for me, in terms of what can I do vs. what should I do.

I think it would be best to add a client-side option to censor it, so that people who want the dirty, gritty, realistic depiction of war can turn on the gore setting, and those who feel like they can be triggered or don't want this, can just keep it censored so that it just shows the limb glowing red, for example.

For immersion it would add a lot, because IEDs, RPGs, mortars, artillery and large calibers can definitely leave someone dismembered. In my opinion, it's always been immersion breaking to see someone get hit by an RPG and just seeing them 100% intact without a scratch. In my community, we have a PJ section and dismemberment would definitely add a lot for us. It'd be a shame to let this opportunity slide. With optional censorship you please both the people who want it and those who don't, win-win.

This is already done, and is configurable via ACE Settings. This was actually a thing discussed, worked for and implemented :)

Additionally, you may want your community members to try it out again - the frequencies have also been changed from the ones in CSE, specifically to not trigger Tinnitus pain. As a fellow horrible tinnitus person, I can tell you the new sounds fall outside the pain frequency.

That's great! Awesome work, guys.

[Takoda 10]

For immersion it would add a lot, because IEDs, RPGs, mortars, artillery and large calibers can definitely leave someone dismembered. In my opinion, it's always been immersion breaking to see someone get hit by an RPG and just seeing them 100% intact without a scratch.

This is exactly how I feel. After watching the VBS3 dismemberment scene I'm certain that kind of realistic wounding would evoke a feeling of fear and blur the line between the physical world and the digital simulated world, I know I would be finding cover damn quick if I witnessed it happening to a team member.

[kremator 1065]

I think either Arma or Arma2 had a gib mod ... worked very well I seem to remember.

[froggyluv 2136]

I think either Arma or Arma2 had a gib mod ... worked very well I seem to remember.

That was part of SLX Wounds and it basically just replaced model with burnt body pieces -but was pretty cool.

@Germ: Soldier of Fortune was nasty and basically a 'deconstruct the human body ' porn and if Gore sites are your entertainment....well good luck with that. That said, fully support dismemberment and more blood as this is virtua-war. Sick basterds will get tittalated, sympathetic types will be outraged, while people who can rationally decipher the difference between real war atrocities and video game ones will most likely appreciate the effect.

[gibonez 18]

Anyone remember the vehicle hits from arma 2 ACE2 ?

When hitting vehicles with a heavy machinegun you got bright sparks and puffs of smoke that even at extended ranges let you positively know you were on target.

WEre these part of a SFX package in ace 2 or were these something else.