ACE3 - A collaborative merger between AGM, CSE, and ACE

[singleton 22]

Agreed, ACE3's interaction system is much better. Sure, it takes more time to do 'simple' tasks, but I like that. In real life it takes more than 2 seconds to assess an arm then to move down to assess a leg. This system, while it takes more time and precision I feel as if it kind of adds an immersion block and makes me feel as if I am checking a real person, not just navigating a GUI. Hopefully it'll make people start doing assessments and pushing meds once they are actually in safety and out of a firefight. Not right in the shit.

[kgino1045 12]

To not use those 'scroll action menus sake', that's why those icon need it got it?

Edited April 18, 2015 by kgino1045

[FireandManeuver 10]

Feature request:

If engine is damaged (orange or red), add some random engine stalls and maybe difficulties with start engine (for example, more than 1 attempt needed to start it).

I think they have some thread on Github(?) where you can request things like this? Anyway, it would be awesome.

Imagine taking a hit while flying a helicopter. Engine is orange but still rolling, then the engine starts to get weaker and finally breaks down mid flight.

The possibilities are endless.

[gibonez 18]

Agreed, ACE3's interaction system is much better. Sure, it takes more time to do 'simple' tasks, but I like that. In real life it takes more than 2 seconds to assess an arm then to move down to assess a leg. This system, while it takes more time and precision I feel as if it kind of adds an immersion block and makes me feel as if I am checking a real person, not just navigating a GUI. Hopefully it'll make people start doing assessments and pushing meds once they are actually in safety and out of a firefight. Not right in the shit.

Exact reasons why I like it.

Getting injured and shot should not be a simple fix where in less than 1 second you are already clear of any real danger due to being able to bandage quickly.

I like injuries being a threat and if that is accomplished due to a more time consuming menu then so be it.

[Belbo 461]

Agreed, ACE3's interaction system is much better. Sure, it takes more time to do 'simple' tasks, but I like that. In real life it takes more than 2 seconds to assess an arm then to move down to assess a leg. This system, while it takes more time and precision I feel as if it kind of adds an immersion block and makes me feel as if I am checking a real person, not just navigating a GUI. Hopefully it'll make people start doing assessments and pushing meds once they are actually in safety and out of a firefight. Not right in the shit.

That's right for almost all actions. Something that I don't really like is the implementation of gestures in the interaction rose. There should be the possibility to assign key commands to gestures, since they need to be executed quickly - and there's no explanation for a delay. If I want to point at something, I should be able to do so without delay.

That's another flaw - the only acceptable gesture to point at something is the "Go"-gesture, which triggers both the gestureGo- and the gestureGoB-gesture. But only one of them is needed. Maybe the gestureGoB-gesture could stay like this and the regular gestureGo-gesture could be added as a "point-at"-gesture.

[froggyluv 2130]

May seem trivial but is there is a way you guys can make the _killer retain his ID after a bleedout? Meaning if your not killed immediately but die of bloodloss instead, there is no identity of _killer

[-PzGrenBrig37-commy2 10]

May seem trivial but is there is a way you guys can make the _killer retain his ID after a bleedout? Meaning if your not killed immediately but die of bloodloss instead, there is no identity of _killer

It's not trivial. It's an engine limitation that occurs with every medical system in Arma and we are aware of it. There is no way to change this behavior of killed from our side.

[mordeaniischaos 3]

Agreed, ACE3's interaction system is much better. Sure, it takes more time to do 'simple' tasks, but I like that. In real life it takes more than 2 seconds to assess an arm then to move down to assess a leg. This system, while it takes more time and precision I feel as if it kind of adds an immersion block and makes me feel as if I am checking a real person, not just navigating a GUI. Hopefully it'll make people start doing assessments and pushing meds once they are actually in safety and out of a firefight. Not right in the shit.

It's not just speed, it's ease and accuracy. It's not hard to find a leg on a guy in real life and look over it. It takes TIME but that should be simulated with a progress bar. The issue is when things overlap or straight up aren't visible because you happen to be in the wrong square inch of space.

And you should absolutely be able to easily check yourself in combat. If you're hit you should know where you are hit so you can tell the doc when it's time for you to receive treatment. If it's serious (loss of blood is significant for example) you should absolutely be able to address it quickly (clot, apply pressure, etc) until you can get patched up. Medical assistance happens after the firefight or during a lull, but that doesn't mean soldiers keep fighting on oblivious to gunshot wounds. And there are other actions in those menus that you may need to do under pressure.

There's nothing realistic about fumbling around with checking a leg. It takes time, but it's easy and natural to do because legs are always in the same place and you have pretty excellent control over your body in the real world.

If you want to discourage medical attention under fire, make suppression impact time to render aid.

---------- Post added at 11:47 ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 ----------

Maybe youre thinking this the wrong way. I think its really good that you need to focus on what you are doing and you need to do it right especially in combat and under stress. Why does it have to work so arcady like ACE and AGM? You wont put a bandage on someones head from interacting with their feet in real life, you have to adapt to situations and problem solve. You are trying to make everything too easy. ;)

I love the consept of this new interaction system and it really brings something new and innovative in the table, sure it might need some small tweaking regarding performance if possible but all in all its a great thing to have.

It simulates difficulty in the wrong ways because it's straight up buggy. Overlapping or disappearing icons that are too small for simple things like finding a bullet hole? If it should be more difficult, make it realistic. Not just an artificial barrier.

A system that makes it so you don't have a diagnose option but instead you can see wounds and have to apply treatment to the location would be a good way to make it realistic AND challenging, instead of clunky, buggy, and un-intuitive.

[kklownboy 43]

I find ANY med "system"unrealistic. All are lame in there cumbersome ways to make the "Medic Fetish" guy be the hero. And creates the "medicine-Ball" of revive/repair.

Having too read text, align Icons or whatever fiddly bullshitt just to get unrealistic treatment, all in the name of "realism" is laughable and phoney like a arcade game. I have used them all .All the way back.. ...heck Norrins, or stab and go ACE, lame AGM morphine acid trip... fumble about CSE.... They all are just a handjob for the "Medic" guy. All end-up the same as the games built in med system with some extra penalty and are NO better than the games default system. do to the fact they are all just as fake. Yeah thats a PBO(s) that will be pulled.... Game play is better with the default med system.

Now dont get me started on magic cross hairs.....

[war_lord 934]

I find ANY med "system"unrealistic. All are lame in there cumbersome ways to make the "Medic Fetish" guy be the hero. And creates the "medicine-Ball" of revive/repair.

Having too read text, align Icons or whatever fiddly bullshitt just to get unrealistic treatment, all in the name of "realism" is laughable and phoney like a arcade game. I have used them all .All the way back.. ...heck Norrins, or stab and go ACE, lame AGM morphine acid trip... fumble about CSE.... They all are just a handjob for the "Medic" guy. All end-up the same as the games built in med system with some extra penalty and are NO better than the games default system. do to the fact they are all just as fake. Yeah thats a PBO(s) that will be pulled.... Game play is better with the default med system.

Now dont get me started on magic cross hairs.....

If you don't like the mod, don't play the mod, it's that simple. Mod implementations can't be perfect due to various reason, but I'll take something that isn't entirely perfect but goes some way towards portraying the importance of battlefield medicine. Even the clunkiest medical system is better then the default "magical syringe" that lets you self-heal a 7.62 to the face in a 5 second animation.

[gibonez 18]

I find ANY med "system"unrealistic. All are lame in there cumbersome ways to make the "Medic Fetish" guy be the hero. And creates the "medicine-Ball" of revive/repair.

Having too read text, align Icons or whatever fiddly bullshitt just to get unrealistic treatment, all in the name of "realism" is laughable and phoney like a arcade game. I have used them all .All the way back.. ...heck Norrins, or stab and go ACE, lame AGM morphine acid trip... fumble about CSE.... They all are just a handjob for the "Medic" guy. All end-up the same as the games built in med system with some extra penalty and are NO better than the games default system. do to the fact they are all just as fake. Yeah thats a PBO(s) that will be pulled.... Game play is better with the default med system.

Now dont get me started on magic cross hairs.....

ACE is modular. Just disable it if you don't like it. Default vanilla arma has no medical system btw. It has a broken damage model with magical first aid kits.

[Jackal326 1158]

I find ANY med "system"unrealistic. All are lame in there cumbersome ways to make the "Medic Fetish" guy be the hero. And creates the "medicine-Ball" of revive/repair.

Having too read text, align Icons or whatever fiddly bullshitt just to get unrealistic treatment, all in the name of "realism" is laughable and phoney like a arcade game. I have used them all .All the way back.. ...heck Norrins, or stab and go ACE, lame AGM morphine acid trip... fumble about CSE.... They all are just a handjob for the "Medic" guy. All end-up the same as the games built in med system with some extra penalty and are NO better than the games default system. do to the fact they are all just as fake. Yeah thats a PBO(s) that will be pulled.... Game play is better with the default med system.

Now dont get me started on magic cross hairs.....

What ever drugs you are on, I'll have some too because you must be on one hell of a trip. As mentioned above, just disable the medical module, and you can go back to using your "better default medical system" (if you can describe using a FAK action in the action menu to heal yourself fully after 3 seconds a "medical system"). With regard to the "arcade game" reference, Pac-Man has a better medical system than default ArmA.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Jackal326

[noubernou 77]

I find ANY med "system"unrealistic. All are lame in there cumbersome ways to make the "Medic Fetish" guy be the hero. And creates the "medicine-Ball" of revive/repair.

Having too read text, align Icons or whatever fiddly bullshitt just to get unrealistic treatment, all in the name of "realism" is laughable and phoney like a arcade game. I have used them all .All the way back.. ...heck Norrins, or stab and go ACE, lame AGM morphine acid trip... fumble about CSE.... They all are just a handjob for the "Medic" guy. All end-up the same as the games built in med system with some extra penalty and are NO better than the games default system. do to the fact they are all just as fake. Yeah thats a PBO(s) that will be pulled.... Game play is better with the default med system.

Now dont get me started on magic cross hairs.....

One of the reason I am debating implementing full living dismemberment. See how hero feeling the medic is when the only thing he can do is tie off the tattered shreds of his leg and give him some pain killers while he is uncontrollably screaming out in pain waiting for the evac (if it even comes).

On the other hand that might trigger actual PTSD in some people so maybe I will hold off.

[-PzGrenBrig37-commy2 10]

Something that I don't really like is the implementation of gestures in the interaction rose.

This is going to be changed anyway. I'll try to recreate the way it was done in ACE2 if anyone remembers. I still have a major bug with PIP scopes to fix though and also have to finish repairing and loading stuff. So yea, priorities.

[mistyronin 1181]

One of the reason I am debating implementing full living dismemberment. See how hero feeling the medic is when the only thing he can do is tie off the tattered shreds of his leg and give him some pain killers while he is uncontrollably screaming out in pain waiting for the evac (if it even comes).

I'd support you if you take that step :p

In any case the ACE 3, 3D menu is quite an improvement over 2D menus like AGM. Obviously it's not 100% real, but as always that's what armed forces recruitment offices are for...

Edited April 18, 2015 by MistyRonin

[gibonez 18]

Not to mention the 3d menu has great potential for future systems such as the artillery.

[jaynus 10]

Not to mention the 3d menu has great potential for future systems such as the artillery.

How dare anyone think ahead!

[Mirek 166]

I find ANY med "system"unrealistic. All are lame in there cumbersome ways to make the "Medic Fetish" guy be the hero. And creates the "medicine-Ball" of revive/repair.

Having too read text, align Icons or whatever fiddly bullshitt just to get unrealistic treatment, all in the name of "realism" is laughable and phoney like a arcade game. I have used them all .All the way back.. ...heck Norrins, or stab and go ACE, lame AGM morphine acid trip... fumble about CSE.... They all are just a handjob for the "Medic" guy. All end-up the same as the games built in med system with some extra penalty and are NO better than the games default system. do to the fact they are all just as fake. Yeah thats a PBO(s) that will be pulled.... Game play is better with the default med system.

Now dont get me started on magic cross hairs.....

Useles post is useles. Dont like it? dont use it!

Back to topic: I heard there would be limb dismemberment. Awesome!!!

[Jackal326 1158]

One of the reason I am debating implementing full living dismemberment. See how hero feeling the medic is when the only thing he can do is tie off the tattered shreds of his leg and give him some pain killers while he is uncontrollably screaming out in pain waiting for the evac (if it even comes).

On the other hand that might trigger actual PTSD in some people so maybe I will hold off.

Perhaps make the graphical nature a user-definable option (not overwritten by the server/mission) to prevent any shocking/PTSD situations. The effect of being incapacitated could still be there, and any attempts to heal could be met with a text prompt saying "This guy has no legs" (for an example), but the gory aspect would be filtered for those who choose not to see it. The same could be done with any screaming sound effects added with the feature.

[tsean 11]

One of the reason I am debating implementing full living dismemberment. See how hero feeling the medic is when the only thing he can do is tie off the tattered shreds of his leg and give him some pain killers while he is uncontrollably screaming out in pain waiting for the evac (if it even comes).

On the other hand that might trigger actual PTSD in some people so maybe I will hold off.

Dismemberment would actually be absolutely incredible. About the PTSD triggering, maybe it would be possible to add optional, client-side censorship for those who would be sensitive to the image of dismemberment, where the lost limb would just glow red to indicate it's been lost, rather than actually be dismembered or something like that.

(EDIT: Sorry, I just noticed Jackal326 said something similar while I was posting this)

While on the topic of triggering real conditions, I'd like to request the feature to turn off the tinnitus, or "combat deafness" as it was known client-side in CSE. I love the effect and want it in for myself and the others, except I have at least 4 members in my community who suffer from tinnitus in real life, and the sound tends to trigger it for them when they forget to put in earplugs, or when they respawn next to explosions without earplugs and such, so it'd be great if they could have an option to turn off the ringing sound, but keep the deafness.

Keep up the amazing work guys, I'm insanely excited about all this.

Edited April 19, 2015 by TSean

[gibonez 18]

I don't see ptsd ever being a problem to be honest.

Dismemberment is no more likely to bring forth ptsd in a person compared to what is already in vanilla arma.

Vanilla arma has everything I would imagine brings forth ptsd, explosions, firefights etc.

[phronk 895]

It depends how graphic the dismemberment is. If it's a character model without legs and some blood decals, it probably wouldn't trigger such an emotional reaction. But if you add screaming and a lot more blood and gibs, then I can definitely see how it'd be too extreme for a veteran that may've seen some shit. PTSD is fine and dandy in the mind of a typical civilian, but it can really be something that ruins the experience for those actually effected by it.

[SAS_Raptor 30]

First off, I really like to play Arma in a very realistic way. Hence I'm pretty excited about ACE, like most people here.

However it’s a game and there is a line. For me personally this line is visual dismemberment. Nothing against blood. It’s a game for adults after all. But people ripped into pieces? Flying body parts after an explosion? No thx, don’t need to see that in my free time. And imho it doesn’t add anything neither to the atmosphere nor the gameplay. You want a broken leg that can’t be easily fixed by a medic and force you to evac a comrade? Fine by me, but no reason to visualize the whole horror of war.

Ofc one could make these visual effects optional. But they don’t come for free. The development team would need to put time and effort into this, which both can be used better if you ask me.

IIrc mutilation was not included in ACE2 on purpose, just like children. I think ACE3 should go the same way.

[froggyluv 2130]

Thought the dismemberment was a joke -as in, "you dont like our med system, how'd ya like to have your legs ripped off.."

[Azza FHI 50]

does anyone have the classnames for all the medical equipment?