Community Upgrade Project - CUP_Terrains

[war_lord 934]

I think the point that's most missed is that just to run Chernarus is going to take 7GB. If you add the next 4 largest terrains (as somebody else suggested would be 'standard') it's going to be 8GB. Reducing an 8.5GB download to 8.0GB just doesn't seem like it's worth giving up the ability to say "Got the CUP Terrain-Pack? - You're good to play everything we're running on this server."

Not arguing, the modder will of course do as he sees fit (and as I think he always meant to) and it won't cause me any bother personally, I just don't think the case for saving on download size stacks up.

What if I'm not trying to run Chernarus? The assets by themselves are the real prize here, as I said, I expect that CUP buildings are going to become the standard for Custom maps.

Edited July 20, 2015 by War_lord

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

added midrange textures to all the A1 islands

I remember Kju once saying this was an impossibility without source. So glad to see you've figured it out. This will be a bigger addition for me than all of the other CUP>AiA-TP features combined.

[cifordayzserver 119]

I remember Kju once saying this was an impossibility without source. So glad to see you've figured it out. This will be a bigger addition for me than all of the other CUP>AiA-TP features combined.

That was likely my fault? I tried at some point to add it Sahrani for him, and couldn't get it to take, it was likely due to something stupid like forgetting to pack the texture file? I'm not sure, I actually thought it wouldn't work due to this, but figured I'd give it another go.

On the release structure, I've read everyone's comments, here, on reddit, and within the CUP group.... I suspected the majority would be for a single release, but that's not really what I want to do. The only valid arguments I can see against single terrain releases are:

1. Less used Terrains will get less exposure - True, but I don't think that's really an "issue", missions are what make Terrains come to life, and w/o good ones, there's almost no point in having a terrain on your HD... so if Rahmadi, or Southern Sahrani, etc get lost along the way, it's not really a loss, those terrains (especially those 2) were really created solely due to the lack of computing resources available to many when A1 released. Running Sahrani was too hardware intensive for most users... nowadays, Sahrani outperforms any other A2 BI terrain, much less Altis... Their usefulness has sort of disappeared.

2. Long mod lists/launch params - That's a valid point, but IMO, collections on PWS and Steam are the solution, there are ways to manually launch long mod lists, so it's not something I consider a real problem.

Other than that, I feel like it's just lazy to not do it fully modular. The terrains deserve their own release space on Steam so they can be summarized and not lost in the main download, and the main package needs to be just as suitable for 3rd party terrains as it is for BI terrains... and IMO a big part of that is not requiring the DL of other terrains. So SOME split is important to me, and at that point, doing all the terrains, or 3 different packages seems illogical... I'd rather release them all separately, so they can exist in their own spaces.

No FINAL decision has been made yet, so we'll see... but again, 99.999pct it will be fully modular.

I've gotten a lot of the little issues with the Buildings.pbo sorted out, but still want to add in some more of the SMD buildings.

[nkenny 1057]

While I stand in the other camp, an argument for a modular approach is that some community create terrains require only the resources of CUP_terrains, not the terrains themselves. Which in turn reduces the mod load for players downloading such a release.

-k

[LykosMactire 298]

My honest opinion is to remove the small "Cutouts" that exist in the main maps already. Like the takistan cutouts and The Sahrani islands. would lessen the size and still work out in the end

[chains 11]

My honest opinion is to remove the small "Cutouts" that exist in the main maps already. Like the takistan cutouts and The Sahrani islands. would lessen the size and still work out in the end

Good suggestion, are there really a point of the smaller ones? If they differ like Bystrica vs. Chernarus OK, but if they are just smaller version of the same terrain?

[chortles 263]

Can't help but think that they're analogous to the "CQB inset" that some want for better performance (framerate) in smaller-scale scenarios...

[pvt_ryan 10]

Between you figuring out the mid-range texture problems on Sahrani and the latest engine update that fixed the texture tiling glitch on old maps, this sounds better and better every day. The only other terrain issues I can think of are the pond glitch and the "Use of Land_fuel_tank_big may cause binarization" error. My group is very excited to make the switch when CUP gets a release- we vote modular as well. We'll also look forward to the addition of the improvements from SMD Sahrani and JBAD Buildings.

[cifordayzserver 119]

Between you figuring out the mid-range texture problems on Sahrani and the latest engine update that fixed the texture tiling glitch on old maps, this sounds better and better every day. The only other terrain issues I can think of are the pond glitch and the "Use of Land_fuel_tank_big may cause binarization" error. My group is very excited to make the switch when CUP gets a release- we vote modular as well. We'll also look forward to the addition of the improvements from SMD Sahrani and JBAD Buildings.

Well, you'll be happy to hear that the ponds are fixed too. The ONLY 2 remaining issues I'm aware of for the ponds are when they interact with FOG (turn black), and they don't show bullet impacts (think this can be remedied but haven't checked yet).

The fuel station binarization thing should be gone in AiA, if not, I will ensure it's out in CUP_Terrains, it's easy fixed though.

[serjames 357]

Agree re modular approach.

[cyprus 16]

My honest opinion is to remove the small "Cutouts" that exist in the main maps already. Like the takistan cutouts and The Sahrani islands. would lessen the size and still work out in the end

I agree with this. If they're identical I'm not even sure why they're there. Are they a relic from the previous games where sometimes people didn't have enough ram/processing power to play on these maps properly.

And about the discussion between modular vs non modular, I've already felt that modular is the way to go, and a very good point a few people have made that I just want to reinforce is that if people only want one mod folder, they could always just put the other pbos in the same folder as the data folder right? Load order doesn't really matter if the mod is properly configured right?

[cid1 10]

I don't really want just one mod folder. But I would like an all in one pack with all the mod folders in the pack,since i'm pretty sure everything going to be modular anyways. So for me that more than likely will use all the files it would be nice to have the option to download everything in one pack instead of downloading everything separately. But it only depends on how many folders it would be also,if it's only a few it's no biggie anyway.

And also i have a question,it's probably been asked before but here it is: Will Arma2 vegetation reconfigured,JBAD Buildings & the SMD Objects going to be integrated in the CUP_Terrains? Would be really nice to have specially the A2 veg reconfig on a map like chernarus so the trees don't fall over for the smallest reasons,and of course JBAD for it's obvious reasons for improvements on several maps and also the SMD objects for the interact able objects etc. That is a lot of work i know,but you have come a long way and made a lot of progress in the CUP team. The future look bright for Arma 3 communities. Thank you all for all your hard work.

[andersson 285]

Please don't remove the cutouts, they are useful. Sometimes when I travel I bring my laptop with me and with the lowest graphics I can use the editor and make missions. A small island is good then as it's easier on the computer, and it's easy to transfer the mission to the big island later on if I wish to.

As you are going modular this shouldn't be a problem anyway. Let them live please.

[rekkless 240]

Why dont you just release it like a car manufacturer?

Release CUP Terrains Core: It includes the Cup basics core package along with the core maps: Chernarus, Takistan and Sahrani (Maybe Zargabad). All conveniently in one package for those who are concerned mod list sizes and people downloading too large a mod.

Then have every other map as a modular option to be downloaded individually? This will then allow for greater customization of mod lists with out having to offer a 8gig full pack or a 15 mod fully modular pack.

For some reason the arguments are all based around what AIATP did like their way is the yard stick and it is either fully modular or full 8 gig package. I don't see why this would be the only option.

To me the smartest approach would be to include the mods popular maps in one convenient mod download (cherno, takistan, sahrani and perhaps Zargabad) and then let end users download what ever other maps they want to use JUST like we currently do now with like Namalsk, Podagorsk, Thirsk, Kunduz etc.

This solution will keep the download size small and controllable for squads as well as keep mod lists in a small size and controllable. To me it is the best compromise from having to choose between a 8gig full download and a 15 map mod lists modular download.

[John Kozak 14]

Sounds like any option would find someone unhappy

[Mattaustt 10]

Hey all,

Aussie and I (custom map maker) are interested in this CUP-Terrain. So will the base just be content, and the modular packages are additional maps? What file size could we estimate for the base back to be? Just really interested, because we hear people whinging atleast 10 times a day about AIA, but we need it for the content.

Cheers.

[chortles 263]

You may expect a similar file size in aggregate to the AiA Terrain Data Pack (TDP), which is part of why the discussion played out in the first place (since the proportions are similar).

[Outlawz7 1]

I agree with this. If they're identical I'm not even sure why they're there. Are they a relic from the previous games where sometimes people didn't have enough ram/processing power to play on these maps properly.

They're not identical. I think mainly they're there because someone wanted the island to fit the mission, not the other way around. I guess when you're the official BI mission maker you can have that privilege.

The layout of South Sahrani is different from the southern Sahrani in the full version and IIRC South Sahrani was the Sahrani used in the ArmA1 demo, so I guess they made it for smaller game size demos have.

Takistan cut-out is used in one ArmA2 ACR campaign mission and the entire area between Jilavur and Sakhe is changed to fit that mission (more rocks, trees and a built-up area where the mission takes place).

Bukovina has a training facility that I think was used in the ACR SP missions where you could practice shooting (pretty much the concept mission for A3 Time Trials)

Rahmadi was used for an ArmA1 campaign that took place there, so I guess they did the cut-out to avoid loading entire Sahrani.

Also, how much space would you save by removing these small islands anyway?

[miketim 20]

As you are going modular this shouldn't be a problem anyway.

yup

Full modularity means everyone win's and nobody really loses. :)

[cifordayzserver 119]

Sorry for the silence, I've had hardly any time to focus on ironing out the last few bugs. I haven't gotten much feedback on the RC Build, so, I'm going to try to get a new RC build out, and release it publicly for better feedback. So far, the idea has been to either release it here, or on the G+ community group.

I will post here advising what the final decision is, but you can join the G+ Community here now if you like:

Google+

[MusTanG 21]

Been asking in your forums for testing privileges for a bit now, had a testing team working on weapons bugs and reported a few to you guys but never got an answer on the terrains...

No problems there but if you wanted a wider test you had communities to turn to for some feedback.

Tha KS for the current updates on progress, release it and we will do what we can to help still.

[MrSanchez 243]

I don't know if this was mentioned before - In the editor in the 'Wrecks' class there are only a few wrecks available - 3 small boats and a c130 wreck. It seems like the ArmA 3 wrecks class has been entirely replaced by AiA TP's wrecks class.

Could you try and fix this in CUP_terrains so that CUP's wrecks are in a different class and doesn't overwrite the ArmA 3 wrecks in the editor?

 

Kind regards,

Sanchez

[sparfell_19 188]

I don't know if this was mentioned before - In the editor in the 'Wrecks' class there are only a few wrecks available - 3 small boats and a c130 wreck. It seems like the ArmA 3 wrecks class has been entirely replaced by AiA TP's wrecks class.

Could you try and fix this in CUP_terrains so that CUP's wrecks are in a different class and doesn't overwrite the ArmA 3 wrecks in the editor?

 

Kind regards,

Sanchez

I made a patch about that for AiATP some times ago, you can take it here :

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/181164-sparfells-workshop/?hl=sparfell%26%2339%3Bs

I'm pretty sure it will be fixed in CUP terrain.

[MrSanchez 243]

Cheers

[phronk 898]

Sorry if this has been answered already, but...

Will there be both a FULL and LITE version, similar to AiA_TP it's LITE version?  While I'd like to use the full version, most people seem to prefer the LITE version of AiA_TP simply because it is a smaller filesize.  Players who use either full or lite are able to play together in the same server with no issues (none that I know of, anyway).  A good example is running the FULL version would be great on a nice desktop, but LITE would be better on a laptop or low-end desktop.

My two cents.