Weapon Resting & Deployment Feedback

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I like the weapon Reston and deployment. I'd use deployment when I need to and I'm not in a desperate situation. Resting is more passive, and actually helps to rest in places where Bipods won't. I was in a blown down house, and I couldn't deploy my bipod on the window, and that's where resting came in and saved me, steadying my aim for pointing through it, and acting as using the window as a brace, which I would do IRL. Love it. Love it all, and can't wait to see progress. I also love the fact that I can deploy on my squad mates only while they are crouched. This means great teamwork, plus spotting, in places where deploying is difficult.

[goldenfiver 11]

Character "hovering" while deploying a bipod on elevated surface (the blocks in arsenal for example). Since no new animations are made - is there a way around this?

[Brisse 78]

Turns out it was really easy to add bipods to custom content :)

[CaptainObvious 95]

As far as I know, AI won't be deploying. They're accurate enough already.

AFAIK this is the case, can't remember which dev said it tho.

Edited March 13, 2015 by CaptainObvious

[madrussian 347]

AFAIK this is the case, can't remember which dev said it tho.

Do you recall AI deployment being mentioned by dev in this thread, or elsewhere? If that's the case, I wonder if they meant no AI deployment at all or just no automatic AI deployment.

Imo, AI's being able to deploy (even if only via script) is very important, as one of the big tenants of OFP/Arma since the beginning has been that players gets no special treatment, as far as the AI is concerned. For example, AI targeting consideration giving equal priority to enemy players and enemy AI targets alike. Also, AI can fire from vehicles, so hopefully that's an indication that weapon deployment will get the full treatment as well. Hopefully yet in ArmA3.

[Greenfist 1863]

Do you recall AI deployment being mentioned by dev in this thread, or elsewhere? If that's the case, I wonder if they meant no AI deployment at all or just no automatic AI deployment.

Unfortunately, no. AI tries to take cover, but do not benefit from this at all. Nevertheless, we think that our AI can shoot quite precisely even without this.

This was about weapon resting, but I assume the goes for deployment.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

This was about weapon resting, but I assume the goes for deployment.

Both at best. AI don't need it, they can shoot you while running in a completely different direction.

[CaptainObvious 95]

Do you recall AI deployment being mentioned by dev in this thread, or elsewhere? If that's the case, I wonder if they meant no AI deployment at all or just no automatic AI deployment.

Imo, AI's being able to deploy (even if only via script) is very important, as one of the big tenants of OFP/Arma since the beginning has been that players gets no special treatment, as far as the AI is concerned. For example, AI targeting consideration giving equal priority to enemy players and enemy AI targets alike. Also, AI can fire from vehicles, so hopefully that's an indication that weapon deployment will get the full treatment as well. Hopefully yet in ArmA3.

As the two gentlemen above already stated, I too think the AI doesn't need this at all, the gameplay would gain no benefits of it, but quite the opposite I think.

Scripted solution of course would be very welcome for the community to utilize as they please.

[twisted 127]

Both at best. AI don't need it, they can shoot you while running in a completely different direction.

Yes they may not need the accuracy, but players deserve them to have similar limits. If our best control is bipod deployed which limits our mobility, then the ai should prefer deploying likewise. It may not affect their crazy accuracy potential, but it would add a ton to the game play. Especially if that meant they'd be more inclined to deploy and provide a base of cover while the other ai move in.

Edited March 13, 2015 by twisted

[chortles 263]

Good news for resting fans, the OPREP mentions it as distinct from deployment still so it looks like it's locked in, no active-deployment-only. :D

[madrussian 347]

Yes they may not need the accuracy, but players deserve them to have similar limits. If our best control is bipod deployed which limits our mobility, then the ai should prefer deploying likewise. It may not affect their crazy accuracy potential, but it would add a ton to the game play. Especially if that meant they'd be more inclined to deploy and provide a base of cover while the other ai move in.

Totally agree. Anyone who argues against AI weapon deployment should fire up COH and order their AI to deploy MG, opening up a firing lane from which the opposing units scatter and take cover. Sure it's an RTS, but it's quite an accurate representation of how effective a single MG can be and how deployment works. Sounds like BIS is laying the foundation for something similar with this from SITREP #97:

As mentioned in the livestream, the last work on AI Suppression (for Marksmen DLC), is about to be released on Dev-Branch. Now that AI can detect projectiles flying near them, and avoid crossing impact zones, they will also receive an accuracy penalty. When under fire, the AI's 'dynamic aiming error' is increased, making them less quick and accurate in their reaction.

Having AI "avoid crossing impact zones" sounds like a great start. Hopefully we'll eventually get to AIs scattering and finding cover to escape a firing lane.

At the very least, I hope we can place AIs into deployment via a script command, for mission making purposes. Deployed AIs can more properly defend fortifications, buildings, etc, and this would definitely up the immersion factor. (And we can and always have been able to adjust AI accuracy, so I don't see that as a barrier.)

Anyhow, forget about AIs for a minute. Picture some of the attempts at static machine guns over the years (official and mods). The unit manning the MG (players and AI alike) would stand or kneel in a fixed pose, and the gun would move but the unit remained perfectly rigid. Most prominent example being when unit is standing straight up manning an MG. Not very immersive, not to mention the unit is usually quite easy to hit (as he's not conforming to his moving weapon). Think of how long those guys manning an MG on the back of a pickup truck usually last... not long!

Deployment as discussed in this thread (as I understand it) applies to foot units deploying their weapons in appropriate spots. However, the animation tech associated with deployment could very well be applied to certain static weapons, and if so obviously that would carry over from player to AI. Similarly, I wonder how exactly this foot unit deployment will be implemented behind the scenes in the engine... Will units in deployment be placed in an "invisible" vehicle, attached to and rotating around the bipod memory point? If that's the case, I think there's a good bet we'll get AI that can deploy.

Appreciate the comments on AI and weapon resting. Curious to get dev comment on AI deployment specifically (apart and aside from weapon resting), whether it will be possible and/or automatic, or whether this has even been decided yet.

[Dwarden 1124]

if you want test some DEV MP with the new weapons

http://www.reddit.com/r/arma/comments/2yy4v1/143_dev_branch_server_koth_with_marksman_weapons/

[L3TUC3 32]

With today's dev build, weapon deployment sans bipod puts the character and weapon in a floating position above the deployment surface, as if a bipod were present. I couldn't really tell if the deployment effects were the same with/without bipod, but I'd reckon having the bipod nets the optimal benefits.

Do the pivot points change depending on having a bipod attached?

I also noticed the MK200 no longer has the little integrated bipod that was part of the front grip prior to #bipods. I take it this was altered to accommodate for the bipods on the front? I kinda looked forward to having bipods on my bipod.

[section 20 458]

I must say I'm totally loving the weapon resting and bipods. Just tried the bipods tonight and very impressed with the results.

Very fluid and quite quick to become a 2nd nature thing you're hardly aware of.

[graemeshute 218]

Its a joke....You know like LOL? I guess being "Arrogant" would have me believe you seem kinda wound overly tight. Trolling is Annoying people. Making a random reply isnt cupcake...mackay?

[goldenfiver 11]

some animation glitches occur while deploying :

first image- character is hovering while crouched

http://imgur.com/fwcH7cs

second image - legs are twisting when you aim upwards

http://imgur.com/isSmGOK

[roberthammer 582]

I also noticed the MK200 no longer has the little integrated bipod that was part of the front grip prior to #bipods. I take it this was altered to accommodate for the bipods on the front? I kinda looked forward to having bipods on my bipod.

Mk200 should use his original Grip pod as a bipod , like this

[Jackal326 1158]

...kinda looked forward to having bipods on my bipod.

Mk200 should use his original Grip pod as a bipod , like this

http://colddemon.users.photofile.ru/photo/colddemon/115897428/144863793.jpg

Still possible - Would certainly be doable from an addon standpoint for a custom model, so hopefully BI will include it

[goldenfiver 11]

going into the "deployed stance" sometimes throws your aim to the left or to the right:

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Oh yeah, the only thing I hate about Bipods is when it messes with view, and free look. Right now, I have to look at my target, see where he is going, and get a compass bearing. Then deploy, and find that bearing. I'm not too annoyed about this, given you have to place your bipeds correctly before you even start aiming. What is annoying, is that free look in deployed mode without looking down my sights is bugged to looking up and down. When looking down sights it's fine, I can look left and right, but when I'm just observing out of sights, it's not pleasant. Other than that, is pretty darn smooth.

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

Mk200 should use his original Grip pod as a bipod , like this

http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/ORD_M249_SAW_w_Grip_Pod_lg.jpghttp://colddemon.users.photofile.ru/photo/colddemon/115897428/144863793.jpg

AGREE! I want one of these in Khaki, or Olive as well. Seems odd only having one kind of bipod. =D

[bad benson 1733]

i get this happening a lot:

http://i.cubeupload.com/KLCfIx.jpg

http://cubeupload.com/im/02cMQu.jpg

it's less drastic in other cases but ground interaction seems pretty sloppy.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Bad Benson

[miketim 20]

Every time I deploy prone, my character is sunk about 75% into the ground.

Pretty much it seems to sink you down to the bottom "collision" part of your weapon

ie: your weapon is probably sort of level with the ground and looks all dandy and nice (because its going by the collision geometries of your weapon or something right)

but the end result has your body clipped halfway into a concrete roadway or the terrain.

[goldenfiver 11]

Oh yeah, the only thing I hate about Bipods is when it messes with view, and free look. Right now, I have to look at my target, see where he is going, and get a compass bearing. Then deploy, and find that bearing. I'm not too annoyed about this, given you have to place your bipeds correctly before you even start aiming. What is annoying, is that free look in deployed mode without looking down my sights is bugged to looking up and down. When looking down sights it's fine, I can look left and right, but when I'm just observing out of sights, it's not pleasant. Other than that, is pretty darn smooth.

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

AGREE! I want one of these in Khaki, or Olive as well. Seems odd only having one kind of bipod. =D

yep, and it gets even worse on anything higher than ground level.

If you take fire, deploying your bipod on a window might mess your view and get you to lose the target. It doesnt seem to happen when you face the window directly tho, but its not like I am going to face the window directly everytime I deploy.

IMO, if it looks like you can deploy, it should be possible regardless of where your character is aiming, as long as your bipod can be leveled.

Some pics i took while testing weapon deployment :

1. You can rest your weapon there, looks like you can deploy- but you cant: (again- if it looks like you can deploy your bipod and level it on a surface, you should be able to deploy. Otherwise- we are going to play a huge guess game and have to remember where can we deploy and what models/surfaces wont allow that)

http://imgur.com/Io4r9wi

2. This shouldnt happen :P

-> I am trying to deploy like that so i can cover that corner , looks allright and possible : https://imgur.com/Io4r9wi,4ITdTRD,jPxLoaR#2

-> This is where deploying my bipod takes me : https://imgur.com/Io4r9wi,4ITdTRD,jPxLoaR#1

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

yep, and it gets even worse on anything higher than ground level.

If you take fire, deploying your bipod on a window might mess your view and get you to lose the target. It doesnt seem to happen when you face the window directly tho, but its not like I am going to face the window directly everytime I deploy.

IMO, if it looks like you can deploy, it should be possible regardless of where your character is aiming, as long as your bipod can be leveled.

Some pics i took while testing weapon deployment :

1. You can rest your weapon there, looks like you can deploy- but you cant: (again- if it looks like you can deploy your bipod and level it on a surface, you should be able to deploy. Otherwise- we are going to play a huge guess game and have to remember where can we deploy and what models/surfaces wont allow that)

http://imgur.com/Io4r9wi

2. This shouldnt happen :P

-> I am trying to deploy like that so i can cover that corner , looks allright and possible : https://imgur.com/Io4r9wi,4ITdTRD,jPxLoaR#2

-> This is where deploying my bipod takes me : https://imgur.com/Io4r9wi,4ITdTRD,jPxLoaR#1

Well hopefully that gets better when the actual weapon deployment hits DEV Branch. Apparently this is all Placeholder, which is fine. With a bit more additional information, it should work out. Though, I'd like to suggest that some places where deploying causes you to sit on your bum, I'd say in certain places, it be better if sitting on my knees would be used instead.

[Electricleash 133]

@BadBenson, that usually happens with the weapons that have built in bipods, eg. M320.

It appears that Zeus controlled units can't deploy as of yet, I'm sure it's not a priority.

Also a lot of building windows don't appear to be configured yet. Especially the more modern ones + crane + building site.