Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[Makarn 10]

Gotta love the ARMA Community! keep the effort guys, I'm doing my part here in Uruguay telling people I know about the immoral things this "group" is doing.

Many people was looking forward to this "mod" and now that they know what was all about they don't want any part of it!

[havatan19 10]

i made a video about it, maybe it reach more peoples and in the case that this theard dissappear or get closed:

(yeah i know that i wrote caiden name sometimes wrong but who cares :D )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSyNu8GgyQU

[qwertz 10]

Me thinks, that there are now only two ways how this might play out:

1) BIS continues to be passive: Some content creators might (or might not) try to protect their rights by mobilizing the community (ineffective), complaining with 3rd party services such as paypal (probably ineffective), or taking legal action (probably prohobitive from a cost perspective). All in all, it is left to the affected content creators to individually identify & battle percieved violations of their rights.

2) BIS is getting active to enforce their own rules: BIS would need to swiftly investigate & evaluate the claimed violations, and impose whatever consequences (if any) arise in a transparent fashion, so that there will be legal certainty about any similar cases in the future.

Case 2, independent of the outcome in this particular case, is certainly preferable for any community which relies on the enthusiasm and work of their constituents. I hope BIS agrees with this, and shows decisive activity soon.

Edited November 2, 2014 by qwertz

[rxnxr23 10]

this is such a pointless and stupid thread. you literally think you can hire a lawyer and sue someone over this? lmfao how old are you? yeah a3l is horrible and dumb but just cuz you dont like it doesnt mean you can just shut it down. nobody pays in order to go on the servers, people voluntarily donate. they do not technically or legally exchange money for services or products. this is how marijuana clinics in california are allowed to operate. people dont "buy" weed from them they "donate" and then are given a gift depending on their "donation". you could argue it in a legal setting until youre blue in the face but it will get you nowhere. even if they were charging for server access are you really going to pay at least 10000 USD to hire an attorney? and for what? to prove a point? even if the suit is ruled in your favor (it wont) you'll receive nothing. you think by whining and sending private messages that Bohemia Interactive will spend the money to do it for you? youre insane. you say to send them a cease and desist letter like it means something. do you even know what it is? its literally just an angry letter used to scare people into doing things without having to file. you can send 1000 cease and desist letters to every server owner in the game and it wont accomplish anything they will just laugh and throw them in the garbage where they belong.

[qwertz 10]

this is such a pointless and stupid thread. you literally think you can hire a lawyer and sue someone over this? lmfao how old are you? yeah a3l is horrible and dumb but just cuz you dont like it doesnt mean you can just shut it down. nobody pays in order to go on the servers, people voluntarily donate. they do not technically or legally exchange money for services or products. this is how marijuana clinics in california are allowed to operate. people dont "buy" weed from them they "donate" and then are given a gift depending on their "donation". you could argue it in a legal setting until youre blue in the face but it will get you nowhere. even if they were charging for server access are you really going to pay at least 10000 USD to hire an attorney? and for what? to prove a point? even if the suit is ruled in your favor (it wont) you'll receive nothing. you think by whining and sending private messages that Bohemia Interactive will spend the money to do it for you? youre insane. you say to send them a cease and desist letter like it means something. do you even know what it is? its literally just an angry letter used to scare people into doing things without having to file. you can send 1000 cease and desist letters to every server owner in the game and it wont accomplish anything they will just laugh and throw them in the garbage where they belong.

rxnxr23 - with all due respect, while I agree that the legal route is most likely not advisable, as someone who actually went to law school, I have to tell you that (based upon the above) you know very little about this subject.

[burdy 11]

Okay this thread confuses me a bit from glancing through it -

So if I were to create a server and said only admins can have AT soldiers and on my website had a $5 a month fee to become admin, that would be highly illegal? Because it does cost quite a bit to run a server..

If so that is very silly.

[qwertz 10]

Okay this thread confuses me a bit from glancing through it -

So if I were to create a server and said only admins can have AT soldiers and on my website had a $5 a month fee to become admin, that would be highly illegal? Because it does cost quite a bit to run a server..

If so that is very silly.

I am certain that fully reading and processing the content of this thread and associated threads (as opposed to merely glancing over it) would swiflty clear up your confusion.

[GSP167 1]

Okay this thread confuses me a bit from glancing through it -

So if I were to create a server and said only admins can have AT soldiers and on my website had a $5 a month fee to become admin, that would be highly illegal? Because it does cost quite a bit to run a server..

If so that is very silly.

You're restricting players from assets unless they purchase an "admin" slot. That's exactly what's wrong with A3L.

[MINKA 14]

Okay this thread confuses me a bit from glancing through it -

So if I were to create a server and said only admins can have AT soldiers and on my website had a $5 a month fee to become admin, that would be highly illegal? Because it does cost quite a bit to run a server..

If so that is very silly.

Donations are a method of income for most servers. Traditionally, Communities make perk packages in game which If you donate, You get some perks depending how much you donate, Now, According to BIS' Rules, This is not allowed. I am not encouraging you do this, But it is a method which seems to be overlooked by BIS and the ArmA community as a mass.

However, we have a problem with communities like A3L, Using their size and hype to make people PAY to simply ENTER the server which has addons created by people not associated with A3L, and who have also publicly admitted they dont want their Addons in A3L. As long as you dont make people pay for addons or to play on your server, and as long as you dont steal other peoples addons and dont take them out when requested, You will be fine.'

On that note:

I publically announce that I want ArmA 3 Life to remove the contents of 'D_Cobalt.pbo' from their File Servers and Association with the mission file. I have the sourced version dated to when it was originally created for evidence that I am the original creator

Edited November 2, 2014 by MINKA

[Westonsammy 1]

Okay this thread confuses me a bit from glancing through it -

So if I were to create a server and said only admins can have AT soldiers and on my website had a $5 a month fee to become admin, that would be highly illegal? Because it does cost quite a bit to run a server..

If so that is very silly.

Not highly illegal, maybe slightly illegal, but either way that is not what ArmA 3 life is doing.

What they are doing is taking other peoples content that they did not have permission to use, claiming it as their own, and then effectively charging people money to use said content. It is the equivalent of robbing a store, then selling the goods you stole from that store at your own store. Which is, as you can imagine, illegal.

[I give up 152]

If I got it right, basically the fuss is because the guys from A3L took the mods placed it in their server as if they were the authors, instead of giving the credits to the real authors.

If they did the same but giving to mods authors the respective credits, there would be no problem?

[Dusty926 1]

If I got it right, basically the fuss is because the guys from A3L took the mods placed it in their server as if they were the authors, instead of giving the credits to the real authors.

If they did the same but giving to mods authors the respective credits, there would be no problem?

Would make them SLIGHTLY more ethical, but they're still charging for use of that content, so it's still illegal.

Yeah, you can put in an application for the server, but I bet you that application is gonna get accepted A LOT faster if you fork over 30 bucks.

[PitViper 0]

If I got it right, basically the fuss is because the guys from A3L took the mods placed it in their server as if they were the authors, instead of giving the credits to the real authors.

If they did the same but giving to mods authors the respective credits, there would be no problem?

They are also not making the server and client code/files openly available meaning they have a defacto monopoly on servers which allows them to blackmail potential players out of money just to play on said servers.

Edited November 2, 2014 by PitViper

[BadHabitz 235]

If I got it right, basically the fuss is because the guys from A3L took the mods placed it in their server as if they were the authors, instead of giving the credits to the real authors.

If they did the same but giving to mods authors the respective credits, there would be no problem?

That's correct, but just part of it. Add in that there was commercial activity going on ("If you want ____ then you have to pay $____"). Also the A3L team is taking assets from other games and using them in Arma 3, most likely without permission of the original creators. People here care about copyrights, and don't want their work being associated with the douchebaggery that's going on.

[Westonsammy 1]

this is such a pointless and stupid thread...

I don't think you understand the situation.

No one is here because they dislike ArmA 3 Life. I couldn't really give a damn if it existed or not.

Everyone is so worked up because of what they are doing in regards to taking modders content, claiming it as their own, and then making money off of it. It is most certainly illegal, and a punch in the face to all the modders affected, who put in all of their hard work and effort for free so that we could enjoy their content, not so that someone else could make money off of it. That is why the community is so pissed off, we don't hate the gamemode (Ok, maybe some of us do), we don't hate the vast majority of the players, we simply think that what the developer(s) of the mod are doing is immoral and illegal, and should be stopped.

[xx_fr0st-w0lf_xx 10]

As someone who hasn't been on Arma in a while, and who came into this thread completely neutral and unbiased, these are the 2 things I have noticed.

Caiden is foolish and unbelievably bad at representing a team. His diplomatic skills are entirely nonexistent. Take away the lying, stealing and scamming and just look at his posts. As someone who was neutral, it completely ruined the chances of even considering looking at the proof because you can already tell who is guilty. I really hope he isn't old enough to know what he is doing. In life, responding to convincing allegations with "Please kill yourself" will not get you anywhere. There are people who scam and steal in life but do it in a careful, organised and impressive manner. Caiden just laughed and left, when he should have been doing damage control. I lost complete respect for Caiden and A3L that he represents

Secondly, I cannot help but feel that BIS isn't doing all that it could. When someone not only steals, but monetizes a mod, something must be done. While my knowledge in games, codes and the limits of BIS's powers are severely limited, I think that they should at least be developing a way to end this outrage. These developers that got their work stolen made these fantastic mods, and these mods make Arma. Arma wouldn't be fraction of what it is if it wasn't for these extremely talented and dedicated people. They spent hundreds of hours on their work and they get it stolen from them, and despite all the evidence A3L is getting away without even a strap on the wrist. I really hope BIS takes a more active role in ending this as I fear that once others see how easy it is to escape punishment from this they will start doing this too.

Too many people these days think they are untouchable, thinking their empire is impenetrable when it reality they have built nothing more then a house of cards.

Knock that fucking house down.

[devilslayersbane 28]

Knock that fucking house down.

With extreme prejudice, preferebly.

[cofi0276 1]

Make good Arma 3 mod, give free access to streamers/youtubers, charge access to public, profit. Bohemia WTF. It costs me more to play a mod than the actual game. Just when i thought that Arma community couldn't get worse with hacks, scripts, antihacks scripts, hacks for antihacks and pay2win items this stuff happens with A3L. They are not even looking at public applications, they only let people in that donated.

Maybe instead of this Make Ama not War contest you should just donate the money to A3 Life "devs" so we players can play for free.

[StevenW129 10]

this is such a pointless and stupid thread. you literally think you can hire a lawyer and sue someone over this? lmfao how old are you? yeah a3l is horrible and dumb but just cuz you dont like it doesnt mean you can just shut it down. nobody pays in order to go on the servers, people voluntarily donate. they do not technically or legally exchange money for services or products. this is how marijuana clinics in california are allowed to operate. people dont "buy" weed from them they "donate" and then are given a gift depending on their "donation". you could argue it in a legal setting until youre blue in the face but it will get you nowhere. even if they were charging for server access are you really going to pay at least 10000 USD to hire an attorney? and for what? to prove a point? even if the suit is ruled in your favor (it wont) you'll receive nothing. you think by whining and sending private messages that Bohemia Interactive will spend the money to do it for you? youre insane. you say to send them a cease and desist letter like it means something. do you even know what it is? its literally just an angry letter used to scare people into doing things without having to file. you can send 1000 cease and desist letters to every server owner in the game and it wont accomplish anything they will just laugh and throw them in the garbage where they belong.

So in your mind you think legal action is a childish and immature move because that is what you just said.

During August through to September and most of October, you had no choice but to pay the $30 to get access to the closed beta. They then started to get warnings from Bohemia about this so they decided to be crafty and change the wording of their donation page to make it seem like it was "the chance to be invited" to the closed beta but in reality it was a 100% to get "invited" so you are still paying to play a mod which has stolen content inside it. Nobody here is saying we are going to start a lawsuit against them, in fact we are simply saying that Bohemia needs to step in and act as a watchdog to make sure they only distribute content which they have permission for and is not stolen. You say Bohemia would pay for it but at what cost would it be for them to be a watchdog to download their files and check the addons inside to make sure they are all under the correct license agreements e.g not resigned etc. I think you are really getting the wrong idea of what this thread is about because nobody is suggesting what you have just said.

[GSP167 1]

this is such a pointless and stupid thread. you literally think you can hire a lawyer and sue someone over this? lmfao how old are you? yeah a3l is horrible and dumb but just cuz you dont like it doesnt mean you can just shut it down. nobody pays in order to go on the servers, people voluntarily donate. they do not technically or legally exchange money for services or products. this is how marijuana clinics in california are allowed to operate. people dont "buy" weed from them they "donate" and then are given a gift depending on their "donation". you could argue it in a legal setting until youre blue in the face but it will get you nowhere. even if they were charging for server access are you really going to pay at least 10000 USD to hire an attorney? and for what? to prove a point? even if the suit is ruled in your favor (it wont) you'll receive nothing. you think by whining and sending private messages that Bohemia Interactive will spend the money to do it for you? youre insane. you say to send them a cease and desist letter like it means something. do you even know what it is? its literally just an angry letter used to scare people into doing things without having to file. you can send 1000 cease and desist letters to every server owner in the game and it wont accomplish anything they will just laugh and throw them in the garbage where they belong.

http://replygif.net/i/1383.gif (4192 kB)

this is such a pointless and stupid comment. you literally think you can't hire a lawyer and sue someone over this? lmfao how old am i? Ah fuck it not even worth a longer reply.

[eggbeast 3673]

as far as i can see, Caiden was banned for admitting that he took Tonics mission, released under a no-derivatives license agreement, then he boasted about how it wasn't Tonics work because they had changed it so much, then boasted that he could do what he liked because it was freeware, etc.

The lesson here is to always read the license agreement, especially before trying to set up a commercial activity within a non-commercial modding community.

BIS have banned him for that and not for the charging system, as I think they may be considering methods for this to work themselves... well, speaking for a bunch of modders who I work with, we do what we do for free because its a hobby that we love. In an ideal world if BIS saw fit to make us a grant of funds from their profits based onthe number of downloads our mods have on armaholic etc, then we'd be quite happy with that. additional charging for a mod though, seems unwise, given that we cannot often assure that all of the work is our own, and there isn't someone sever years back down the road who wrote some of the code etc. in fact, to make a good mod you need to use historic materials, and keep within the non commercial world. as i say, a grant system could work and make us feel really chuffed that we had been sent some money! but charging people additional cash to play a game they already paid for? that is what is killing the games industry - i won't touch games like that,

[iceman77 18]

The lesson here is to write your own shit. Or learn to if you can't. If these guys were as good as they boasted, then they wouldn't have needed to start with someone else's work to begin with. Not to mention charging donations money to use vehicles.

If I have to "donate" money to use a helicopter, then that's not a donation. That's charging people money to use ingame content. Now, if I have access to everything on the server (if applicable) , and make a donation... then that's just that. A donation.

And ofcourse hosts like this generally pull the "server fees" card. Well... after a few couple modest donations, then it's payed for. You don't need to keep charging people to use BI content so you can keep your server afloat :rolleyes:

People like this are a plague on the game itself and help to ruin good games. Fuck people who charge to use content that people already payed 60$ for. Fuck people who charge to use content in a game mode they didn't even write.

[slatts 1978]

Just to clarify for a few people. Asking for donations is not looked down on. However if by donating it gains you access to in game content that is unavailable to people to have not donated, that's what is looked down on.

Side note, this is a a bit of a gray area that I would like someone to clarify. If no content is locked in game, so regardless of if people donate or not they can still earn the content. And if by donating a certain amount a player earns a shortcut to content. Is that against the EULA as well?

[eggbeast 3673]

well, without looking specifically at the license agreement, i would say publishing a price list for mod content is clearly a breach, as that is definitely "offering a service for a fee" which the UK HMRC would see as commercial activity attracting income or corporation tax, and this is what A3L did, along with their theft and modification of Tonics code.

if you reward clan members who donate more, say with earlier access to the planes on the runway in your missions, this could be acceptable due to the scale of what you are doing, as opposed to trying to build a massive empire of 2000 donors all paying to have their content customised. The intention of that would be commercial in my view.

if someone has a system like A3L did, where they require people to donate to access content, BIS will write to them asking them to stop.

what is a shame is that if they steal code like A3L team did, then BIS won't really be in a position to do anything about it. unless Tonic donates his IPR to BIS (with their agreement), in which case BIS would be empowered to take steps to protect it.

they can of course remove the rights of said offenders to participate in this forum, which in this case they have done, although not to the whole team... which is a shame.

[PolyG 69]

BIS could ban them on battle eye.. That would globally ban them from legit ArmA servers. Just saying in real response to the BIS not being able to do much written in the previous post