Firing from Vehicles feedback

[St. Jimmy 272]

Hmm I got some bug at least with the HEMTT that when I ordered AI to get in vehicle 2 didn't hop in until those firing positions were filled. So if you order more than two, the two first ones don't go in vehicle until you order them again because the next two took their firing position seats. Very easy to produce.

With HEMTT at least I'd like to aim over the other passengers also. The enemy can be even somewhere more up so you can shoot over them or there maybe isn't even anyone sitting in front of you so you could shoot if you want. Or is this limitation because of the AI? Could you add more "room" for players?

We should have an option to change seat on and off the firing seat inside the vehicle.

I like how if you're left side you can go on the left and from the right side on the right. So close that we could get some improvement how to interact/go inside a vehicle :D You can do it BIS just better detection where you're watching!

[saltatormortis 12]

we need a command to track a hatch state command

and a "limit weapon command" something like this:

enablePersonTurret [black-/whitelist switch, (weaponlist)]

[neodammerung 8]

TrackIR is broken with Firing from vehicles in all cases. A temporary condition I hope?

I also hope so :(

[klamacz 448]

TrackIR is broken with Firing from vehicles in all cases. A temporary condition I hope?

Don't worry guys :)

[mistyronin 1181]

After some heavy testing, I think that the feature is quite awesome, and gives a way LOT of immersion, fun and possibilities. It's really funny to "recreate" a car persecution, while you throw grenades from the back of the truck. It's also funny to be sniping from a helicopter or to make an insertion with assault boat shooting the enemies in the beach.

In the assault boat it works perfectly, but mainly in the helicopter and sometimes in the cars/trucks the aiming does weird stuff ( even if you aim forward the crosshair is pointing to the extreme left or right, even when stopped ).

The other issue I see is the limited degree of movement, I guess that has been done to prevent shooting your teammates and/or vehicles, but IMO it should be allowed as it's just another case of friendly-fire ( that again is only an issue in the helos and trucks, the boat works perfectly ).

[EricJ 759]

Only problem I immediately see is the extremely hard-limited area you can pan around in. Some positions in vehicles also are awkward, with the shooter sitting with feet hovering off the ground, sunk in a bench, torso twisted badly, etc...

Isn't it possible to do some inverse kinematics to automatically raise the soldier when aiming down over a ledge (Offroad, for example.) or make him twist his hips when panning to the extreme of left and right?

Nah, I can see the graphical glitches but for a game that touts realism it would be realistic wouldn't it?

[peterla 14]

Yes, quite amazing feature. I notice that in the assault boat the left passenger/gunner is inside of the boat, not in the inflatable part. also on the Kamaz AAF there is a guy standing in the middle of the truck without weapon. Anyways minor bugs that for sure will be polished before the final release. good job so far guys.

[novemberist 2]

Very nice! However, normal cargo seats (co-driver, ifrit back seats etc.) are now broken when remote controlling a unit in ZGM, where you can't move your head anymore (haven't been able to test whether this only affects Zeus or also happens in normal missions)

[klamacz 448]

we need a command to track a hatch state command

and a "limit weapon command" something like this:

enablePersonTurret [black-/whitelist switch, (weaponlist)]

Currently you can enable firing from vehicles ability on each position by using

// enables/disables firing from vehicles on specified turret
// params: vehicle, turret path, true or false
vehicle enablePersonTurret [[1], true];

You can remove particular weapons by other functions.

In the assault boat it works perfectly, but mainly in the helicopter and sometimes in the cars/trucks the aiming does weird stuff ( even if you aim forward the crosshair is pointing to the extreme left or right, even when stopped ).

Thanks, we found it today, sneaky buggie.

I would like to see shooting from reasonable vehicles with openable doors, such as the Hellcat's and maybe even the Orca if that could be pulled off. (Can't remember if the Orca has openable doors)

Engine already supports it using animation state ( config param enabledByAnimationSource). Having openable doors is another topic though.

Only problem I immediately see is the extremely hard-limited area you can pan around in. Some positions in vehicles also are awkward, with the shooter sitting with feet hovering off the ground, sunk in a bench, torso twisted badly, etc...

Isn't it possible to do some inverse kinematics to automatically raise the soldier when aiming down over a ledge (Offroad, for example.) or make him twist his hips when panning to the extreme of left and right?

System is animation driven, no IK solutions for body position.

I hope one of the features coming mentioned in the OP-REP are being able to switch seats in a vehicle at will. It wasn't too critical before but I think it is now.

You will be able to switch between cargo and personTurret position, but not to choose exact one.

TrackIR is broken with Firing from vehicles in all cases. A temporary condition I hope?

As mentioned, yes, going to be fixed.

• Hoping for the Passenger side of the Offroad to get FFV activation at some point, particularly with the door-less version.

Yep, that's actually fun position, hoping for that too :)

Hmm I got some bug at least with the HEMTT that when I ordered AI to get in vehicle 2 didn't hop in until those firing positions were filled. So if you order more than two, the two first ones don't go in vehicle until you order them again because the next two took their firing position seats. Very easy to produce.

Thanks, will look into it.

With HEMTT at least I'd like to aim over the other passengers also. The enemy can be even somewhere more up so you can shoot over them or there maybe isn't even anyone sitting in front of you so you could shoot if you want. Or is this limitation because of the AI? Could you add more "room" for players?

Aiming limits are rectangular, there is dynamicViewLimits for changing those according to other passengers, but some edge cases (like overhead in truck) are not possible currently.

[killzone_kid 1329]

I see vehicle getCargoIndex unit now returning -1 on human turrets places. This is going to affect a lot of scripts

[M. BlackBeard 26]

Heli pilots joke here: Now it needs a mod from the community devs to enable pilots to activate a scroll down command that goes like "Hold fire"...or "Insert earplugs" =)

Nice feature BI, long overdue.

Kudos!!

[the_demongod 31]

I'm super impressed so far, we've been waiting or this so long and it's finally here. Words can't explain my excitement.

I'm curious as to how many different vehicles will eventually have FFV. Will we eventually see more positions for firing?

I am particularly interested in seeing the ability for the passenger of a car (or even a helicopter, sorry for the quality but

) to fire, either through the windshield, or to sort of lean out the window. I would expect a position like this to have a much more limited field of view, and possibly simulate the difficulty of maneuvering a weapon in an enclosed space.

We could have the stance-adjust system aid the firing from vehicles, for example a Ctrl+D could cause the passenger to put his arms out the window and be able to aim forward, but as a result be unable to aim down the sights (similar to our current low-prone stance). It would also severely reduce stability, since the arms out the window would have absolutely no support, resulting in a stability perhaps even less than that of the standing stance. We could use this for other positions too, for example in the back of a pickup truck, the stance could be adjusted up to a higher sitting position to be able to see from higher up, but as a result your body would be more exposed and your stability would be even more reduced.

I haven't tested this enough to remember if this is implemented, but a great thing to see would be the effect of the gun's inertia on your aiming. For example, if the truck suddenly accelerates, your aim would suddenly be jerked backwards a bit, and then return to center. It could look similar to the current "inertia" system (with sight misalignment) as well, a more subtle but nonetheless present effect on aiming.

Edited September 22, 2014 by the_Demongod

[machineabuse 11]

Don't worry guys :)

Solid copy all! :cool:

[rndmplyr 1]

Shooting the AT specialist's MXC in 4x accelerated time makes the camera change to the ground whilst each shot :confused:

And you can't use rocket launchers from the Hummingbird, I had hoped for some Battlefield-like stunts *duck*

Edit: double post because of laggy browser, thanks for deleting.

Also sniping from an vehicle is impossible because of the sway, which is independent of the vehicle's movement. I wanted to recreate the scene from Blackhawk down where the sniper shoots a moving car's motor block from a (IIRC) Blackhawk.

Edited September 22, 2014 by rndmplyr

[bad benson 1733]

I had hoped for some Battlefield-like stunts *duck*

same here. about to test.

EDIT: agreed on what people said about the offroad.

1. the aiming angle is too small. it should either be 360 or 360 minus driver area. i'd rather have the dude rotate like in prone and healing anims with resulting increased usability than having him break his back for the sake of using a mask. the limitation feels very unnatural and imposed here.

2. the raise weapon anim must be more of a change to the not raised state. the guy should basically go from sitting to crouch/kneel. that not only makes it more usable but also makes it look better. a nice side effect of more distinct lowered/raised states is having you more exposed to fire which offers a nice decision for the players to make. agressive/dangerous vs defensive/safer.

also being stuck at looking straight forward vertically feels bad and is too limited...just imagine standing/driving in hilly areas and on slopes. that can easily result in zero usability in certain cases.

the littlebird is pretty much perfect. the way the angles are lmited makes a lot of sense and while the aiming mask is pretty harsh here too, i don't see how it could be done better since there is not much room o nteh benches to move.

overall it's a very nice feature and it's very nicely implemented.

too bad about the launchers. i don't see why it wouldn't be allowed to fire them from vehicles. the right way is always allow everything unless there is a really good reason not to. artificial limits like this are huge immersion killers. and if someone cries about backblast (which is not in the game anyways) they can easily script that in. i hope launcher support is not limited entirely and can at least be modded.

i guess i have to say goodbye to this for now:

https://pibillwarner.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/taliban-reut.jpg

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--muDL3-6W--/18nbf2i7a8214jpg.jpg

Edited September 22, 2014 by Bad Benson

[KeyCat 131]

Looks great, looking forward to try it out in MP. Been long time coming but now it's here :)

/KC

[armyinf 33]

How do you get AI into the firing positions?

[das attorney 858]

Firstly - thanks for cramming this feature in game - appreciated :)

Feedback:

1 - Really good overall, seems pretty stable and well done :)

2 - Would like the angles to be opened up a bit

3 - The rear right position on the Tempest covered seems off by a few degrees. (you can't go far enough on the left, and you can go too far on the right).

.

4 - Recoil animation looks silly when firing from vehicles (sights should be moving towards player, not looking like the barrel is bucking up)

5 - AI passengers don't go onto the right animation when scripted into an inflatable:

[miketim 20]

All videos unavailable.

Edit; You have to watch from YT side, dont embed if they are (private?) or whatever it is I guess.

[petek 62]

Agree with most - a very good start - thanks BIS!..... but you know after 13 years we'll want more right?;-)

Obviously would like implemented in as many vehicles and positions as possible. Especially the MRAPs with hatches (the "turn out" like VBS) and for tanks/ APCs too.

I'm really hoping somewhere down the line we get functioning doors for the other helos and cars etc with shooting enabled.

For the Off Roads I really think the front positions should be standing and allow forward sector coverage (...if we can't get 360 degrees). I'd like to see this for the trucks too - not just the shooting at possible persuers but standing at the front and able to engage front facing.

Will keep testing and thanks again..... just more please;-)

[das attorney 858]

All videos unavailable.

Edit; You have to watch from YT side, dont embed if they are (private?) or whatever it is I guess.

Thanks for letting me know MT, I checked on YT and they're still processing.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Das Attorney

[killzone_kid 1329]

Thanks for letting me know MT, I checked on YT and they're still processing.

Those are not cargo positions any more, they are human turret positions now, this is what I meant when I said this would affect a lot of scripts

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Reload gesture for the GM6 Lynx doesn't seem to work when in a vehicle firing position, but all other weapons have perfect reload gestures, including a bunch of community addons I've tried so far.

I've already seen that you know about the crosshair/cursor deflecting from the centre of the screen when the weapon is raised, (making it difficult to order the chopper to move without using the map), and I can say that's been my only major annoyance with it so far.

Other than that I must say I really like what you've done with it. From a technical standpoint I'm impressed that the little things like using weapon lights and IR lasers, changing attachments in your inventory, switching between rifles and pistols and raising and lowering your weapon still work when sat in a firing position (haven't tried binocular slot yet, does that work?), and that we can throw grenades and cyclumes and stuff.

[Maio 293]

How do you get AI into the firing positions?

The AI will auto engage enemy targets if their position within the vehicle allows it.

[das attorney 858]

Those are not cargo positions any more, they are human turret positions now, this is what I meant when I said this would affect a lot of scripts

Hmm, I see. That's an issue for me in that AI previously used cargo quite nicely :

- stay in the vehicle if "AWARE", "SAFE" or "STEALTH" and get out if in "COMBAT"

Now they stay in the vehicle if in a cargo turret when the groups behaviour changes to "COMBAT".

This messes up a lot of things (as you quite rightly pointed out in your post which I skip read to my cost). Can we get a scripting command so that AI in cargo turrets get out if mission maker wants them to?

vehicle allowCargoGunners TRUE; // (AI stay in seats to fire)
vehicle allowCargoGunners FALSE; // (AI get out to engage as per old behaviour based on config entry "unloadincombat")

I could code round it but it would be a pain in the arse.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Das Attorney