Bohemia Interactive please comment on whats hindering you to introduce Ponds to Arma3

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I don't know if it's just textures, i just remember going below ground level and seeing water effects (sound muffled, blurry view, etc) but i have to admit i haven't played around with it too much.

Hmmm... Well, if you port over an Arma 2 map, ponds are there. The only issue is the water line in the middle of your screen, and the fact that going into the pond will result in you getting stuck somehow. Though, all the effects are still there. But maybe ill check it out later.

[Chairborne 2594]

Well, good luck then! ;D

[fabio_chavez 103]

PC Perspective: Will the ability to add ponds and water at different elevations be added to the BI Tools SDK?

VAN ‘T LAND: We're investigating ponds, but cannot promise they’ll be included. Flowing rivers and similar water bodies are not planned for Arma 3.

source:

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/Interview-Bohemia-Interactive-ArmA-3-Developer-Expansion-Optimization-Roadmap?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

-i have yet to witness an occasion where a developpers "we cannot promise" turns out as anthing else than a "will not happen"

[TSAndrey 1]

-i have yet to witness an occasion where a developpers "we cannot promise" turns out as anthing else than a "will not happen"

FFV? Bipods? 3D Editor?

[Greenfist 1863]

FFV? Bipods? 3D Editor?

Workshop mods? Advanced FM? Official launcher?

[CaptainObvious 95]

Workshop mods? Advanced FM? Official launcher?

Sling loading? Weapon inertia? Weapon resting?

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Sling loading? Weapon inertia? Weapon resting?

Weapon initSpeed multiplier? Improved recoil? AI suppression?

[Chairborne 2594]

Zeus DLC? Weapon sounds upgrades? Improved SDK tools?

[cyruz 103]

So this whole thing is really about perspective, I know a lot of stuff that used to be there in Flashpoint or A2 et al is missing from A3, but the flip side is the amount of new core mechanics, features and optimizations that are in A3 that weren't in other games. In a perfect world we'd have everything we ever desired and it would all work perfectly but that's not realistic.

Outside of the odd mission I can rarely think of a time where ponds or rivers have ever factored in to the thousands of hours spent in previous Arma games, in fact I usually avoided water due to huge pain in the ass that swimming in Arma is. So this really isn't a big deal to me, the only thing that's annoying is it breaks some compatibility with old A2 terrains.

I'm curious as to why this is such a big deal?

[vald0069 10]

The game has so much potential.

[Jackal326 1181]

I'm curious as to why this is such a big deal?

it breaks some compatibility with old A2 terrains

You answered your own question. Also limits terrain development with regard to adding lakes etc (which are still possible but are affected by coastal tides which is kinda weird).

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

So this whole thing is really about perspective, I know a lot of stuff that used to be there in Flashpoint or A2 et al is missing from A3, but the flip side is the amount of new core mechanics, features and optimizations that are in A3 that weren't in other games. In a perfect world we'd have everything we ever desired and it would all work perfectly but that's not realistic.

Outside of the odd mission I can rarely think of a time where ponds or rivers have ever factored in to the thousands of hours spent in previous Arma games, in fact I usually avoided water due to huge pain in the ass that swimming in Arma is. So this really isn't a big deal to me, the only thing that's annoying is it breaks some compatibility with old A2 terrains.

I'm curious as to why this is such a big deal?

Because Arma 3's Engine can and can't support ponds. It's gone back in time, if you look at it in terms of Game Engine capabilities in my opinion. What year is it? 2015. And the RV4 can't handle ponds. Super Contra Had ponds!

Besides that though, ponds, make games look and feel good. Inland water can change the feel/mood of an entire environment, much like lighting can. If it's the compatibility from Arma 2 to Arma 3 why ponds aren't in the Engine, it's utterly sad, given that even if an Arma 2 map had ponds, and it's ported over to Arma 3, with working ponds, one can still add a pond to that specific spot where it was in Arma 2, it just takes some time. To not have it at all however, is the downgrading of a the Engine. That'd be like saying, since no one is using boats in our game, lets just completely get rid of them. Or, no one flying above volumetric clouds? Poof. Welcome back for ever still Skybox.

[chortles 263]

source:

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/Interview-Bohemia-Interactive-ArmA-3-Developer-Expansion-Optimization-Roadmap?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

-i have yet to witness an occasion where a developpers "we cannot promise" turns out as anthing else than a "will not happen"

Beyond all the replies that you got in return*... it's just more of BI's "no promises" stance ever since that "axed features" thread from 2013. Hell, I'm surprised that he actually hard-confirmed the nixing of "flowing rivers and similar water bodies", that's more definitive than usual.

* I remember a SITREP claiming that the Marksmen DLC-accompanying features weren't even greenlit until December 2014. What does that say?

[jig86 10]

Basically it boils down to this: The A3 we were hoping BI would deliver is what BIS is marketing as VBS3. It'd be hard to market a $1500+ per license simulator when most features are present in a $60 game available on Steam. Truth hurts, but it is what it is. The military gets the full-blooded German Shepherd with papers. We got this: http://www.animalplanet.com/pets/mutt-maker/

[froggyluv 2136]

Go play VBS then come back and tell me it was 60x the fun as it's 60x the price. Doubt you'll even find it as fun as Arma. People love to salivate and dream over the many feature video's but when actually in game VBS, it's a far more sterile, sobering and yes generally dull affair.

[takelmeifter 10]

so you're saying that these features are not getting put in because it might damage sales for a separate product sold by a different company to a different market?

interesting theory

[zukov 490]

but a rettangle with water shader/rvmat doesn't work?

[Chairborne 2594]

These features are not getting put in because developing them costs money, unless you think the game code is delivered by the code fairy. :D

They can't just steal stuff from VBS.

It's one thing when you are fed directly by the military industry and companies that actually NEED your "game" for 14 years, another when you've been doing a niche game for 11 years with limited resources and very few customers (until dayz came out).

This discussion keeps going in circles every time.

The past year BI has doubled in size as a company and take a look at what was introduced or even announced for the upcoming months (read previous comments).

[chrisb 196]

I don't have VBS3, don't plan on getting it either. I have & played VBS2 (Brit version) quite a lot, well I can't really say played, messed around in the editor would be more honest I think. It looked like a great training tool, which of course is what it was/is.

Players think the AI in Arma3 are dumb ! well if comparing to something like VBS2, the AI in Arma 3 here would seem Oxford educated.. Not sure about VBS3 AI.

But VBS is not intended as a game, although I would like to see some of the terrain details added to the series here, maybe even opening doors to vehicles and more vehicle interaction. Some other bits too, wounding springs to mind.

But not the AI..:rolleyes:

[chortles 263]

so you're saying that these features are not getting put in because it might damage sales for a separate product sold by a different company to a different market?

interesting theory

And that's a market where "do not give to Bohemia Interactive" clauses can actually exist in the contracts. ;)

Go play VBS then come back and tell me it was 60x the fun as it's 60x the price. Doubt you'll even find it as fun as Arma. People love to salivate and dream over the many feature video's but when actually in game VBS, it's a far more sterile, sobering and yes generally dull affair.

I recall it being described as being definitively superior in modding/content creation to the Arma 3 Tools... but the player experience basically being a warmed-over Arma 1, complete with a lot of the infamous features actually being scripted, not engine-supported, and reproducible in Arma (i.e. accessed via action menu). Heck, BI's already officially confirmed that the devs behind Zeus are going all the way (as demanded and hoped for almost a year ago) to a 3D Editor interface after all.

They can't just steal stuff from VBS.

Game, set, match.

It's one thing when you are fed directly by the military industry and companies that actually NEED your "game" for 14 years, another when you've been doing a niche game for 11 years with limited resources and very few customers (until dayz came out).

That, and BI can only really charge "non-industry" customers for copies of the game and expansions/DLCs, while BISim...

Not that PE users don't matter but the fact is PE users don't pay for support so much of Support's time is spent with paying customers who purchase Gold/Silver hours.

*cough* So yeah...

The past year BI has doubled in size as a company and take a look at what was introduced or even announced for the upcoming months (read previous comments).

This is something that stood out to me and has been noted by someone else on these forums; the rate of post-launch features delivery in Arma 3 is pretty damned remarkable, especially when the project leadership implied that they only finalized the go-or-no-go decision on some of them in December 2014, and in all honesty I wonder if the early access model (read: the fact that Arma 3 was able to generate pre-launch-yet-non-preorder revenue) and the DLCs had something to do with BI's ability to achieve this.

For those who didn't Bohemia formally and full-fledgedly going in on DLCs as an intentional/non-experimental business tactic, let me warn you that they may well have paid for the Expansion...

Players think the AI in Arma3 are dumb ! well if comparing to something like VBS2, the AI in Arma 3 here would seem Oxford educated.. Not sure about VBS3 AI.

But VBS is not intended as a game, although I would like to see some of the terrain details added to the series here, maybe even opening doors to vehicles and more vehicle interaction. Some other bits too, wounding springs to mind.

But not the AI..:rolleyes:

I'm not sure prioritized general AI development is for VBS3 beyond simply support for a specific contracted feature, versus the coverage and attention that is given recently here, but I have yet to hear about an AI-controlled VAMTAC ramming a BTR off of the road into a wall in VBS3...

... and yes, ChrisB, someone purported that that actually happened in Arma 3.

[chrisb 196]

... and yes, ChrisB, someone purported that that actually happened in Arma 3.

Did you run that by a lie detector test..;)

[rübe 127]

One ARMA 3 DLC - GAIA, please.

:n:

[Horus 83]

....

Simple answer is - they do not work properly. In many cases they did not even work properly in A2, however it was less visible than in A3. And with addition of some new features and improvements, we encountered more and more problems (AI, Dx11, physx, diving, animations, path finding,...).

You may ask, why don't we fix it. It has also simple answer - it is not impossible, but it requires manpower that is limited and we have to choose what has a priority.

....

Maybe WaveWorks help with Physx and dx11...at 34:30 they say

...water is interacts with players,terrain and with all physical objects exist in the game..

http://gdcvault.com/play/1022389/

start watching from 28:15

[St. Jimmy 272]

Well well well:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=28560

And some test by Shelestov with ponds:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?182817-Unnamed-terrain-12-8-km-%28Ukraine%29-early-wip&p=2917075&viewfull=1#post2917075

[ineptaphid 6413]

Yep! Its happening!.Now we need the AiA guy's to re-release A2 maps with ponds once more!