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There is a script command for that ? The only thing I can see is a config entry that allows to set the movement speed multiplier on steep terrain.

player setAnimSpeedCoef 1;

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player setAnimSpeedCoef 1;

Oh, nice. Well, then it is possible to make it more punishing with scripts. Sweet. :D

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player setAnimSpeedCoef 1;

 

Nice, thanks for the info. Seems I was too blind to see that on the biki :|

 

It's at least reassuring that the possibilities are there. At least one good thing came out of the new system (i.e. the moddabilitiy was greatly enhanced)

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player setAnimSpeedCoef 1;

 

Too bad it slows down all anims, including things like go prone, making it look weird. I was sure the original fatigue did not touch on things like going prone, but it might be that it did and I never noticed.

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Too bad it slows down all anims, including things like go prone, making it look weird. I was sure the original fatigue did not touch on things like going prone, but it might be that it did and I never noticed.

It slows down those animations too :)

edit: the fatigue system*

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It slows down those animations too :)

edit: the fatigue system*

 

Meh, never noticed it.

 

Arma urgently needs a better animation system. Anybody trying to sync weapon realoads to the actual gesture knows what I am talking about.

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I'm still not sold on the old fatigue system as a mod, rather than a client/server setting -- advanced flight model is the perfect comparison. You prefer it? You change to it with a few button clicks. How many updates do you think it will take before the unsupported, legacy version now deprecated to a mod is broken due to changes BI makes.

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AFM is not perfect, you still cannot force the subsettings, duh  :D  Stop praising AFM

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AFM is not perfect, you still cannot force the subsettings, duh  :D  Stop praising AFM

 

Unless things have changed, a player/client can enable to use it within their game settings. Additionally, a server can force it within it's server.cfg to "forceRotorLibSimulation = 0/1/2;"

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Is there a script command that can disable the new fatigue system so that unit carrying load heavier than 1 would be able to run instead of being forced to walk only? I have tried enableFatigue and enableStamina both works only for when unit load is less than 1.

 

This is for my own personal SP cheat module if you want to know why =)

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Test_LegacyFatigue has now appeared in the Arma 3 Samples package.

Are you sure?

I just downloaded the samples from Steam and I can't see anything related to Fatigue?

EDIT : I was on the wrong branch...

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Is there a script command that can disable the new fatigue system so that unit carrying load heavier than 1 would be able to run instead of being forced to walk only? I have tried enableFatigue and enableStamina both works only for when unit load is less than 1.

 

This is for my own personal SP cheat module if you want to know why =)

 

I'm also interested in knowing this.

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The forced walk mechanic linked to

 

configfile >> "CfgInventoryGlobalVariable" >> "maxSoldierLoad"

 

is a server-killing mechanic ;)

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After playing a full coop night with the new Stamina system, as opposed to single tryouts in the editor on the dev branch, I feel that I can finally summarize my thoughts about it.

Gameplay: The system has negligible effect on gameplay, I found it hard to see the big difference from playing on the days prior to the Fatigue system, and now. The fact that you can jog forever kills an important aspect of the game, encourages reckless behavior, and counters group effort.

Transparency: The Stamina bar is anything but transparent. A line within a line, that extends, and changes colour and shape - all these are way too many indications for a single UI element. Any UX expert could have noted that it's a bad representation of something rather simple to convey. It's cluttered, confusing, and fails to deliver the objective of transparency. I'm not a complete idiot and I still struggle to understand what the hell this bar is all about. And the cherry at the top: the mountain icon, indicating that you are moving uphill. Isn't the fact that I see a mountain in front of me enough to convey that? What next? An icon for a weapon indicating that I'm carrying a weapon? An icon of a car indicating that you are riding in a vehicle? It's just plain ridiculous to the point of insulting the player's intelligence. Also, the whole bar turns up immediately with every movement, it's distracting and annoying, at least add some hysteresis mechanism to turn it on only after some continuous movement.

 

I thought that removing the Fatigue system is a bad idea, and I still do, but I thought the Stamina replacement might be something we can live with, but now after playing a complete night with it, in several different missions, I think that it's a disaster. 

 

At first I thought that maybe outside the BI forums I'll find some support of the new system. However, the general consensus on reddit, related youtube videos, even on Steam(!) is very much against the new system. I really don't understand who benefits from it.

 

Arma 3 has taken a huge step back. I don't know what on earth BIS is going through, but it's not good. Not good. I just hope that Fatigue will be the last victim of whatever is going on in the company. 

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Transparency: The Stamina bar is anything but transparent. A line within a line, that extends, and changes colour and shape - all these are way too many indications for a single UI element. Any UX expert could have noted that it's a bad representation of something rather simple to convey. It's cluttered, confusing, and fails to deliver the objective of transparency. I'm not a complete idiot and I still struggle to understand what the hell this bar is all about. And the cherry at the top: the mountain icon, indicating that you are moving uphill. Isn't the fact that I see a mountain in front of me enough to convey that?

The length of the bar tells you how much stamina you have.

The orange colour means you're consuming stamina at a fast rate, I.e. sprinting or going up a steep hill.

The red means you're exhausted and can't sprint even if there's stamina left.

The mountain icon means you're climbing an incline so steep that you're unable to sprint. There's no way knowing this without the icon because you can't tell if the incline is over 17 degrees.

There's also a cross icon which appears when your legs are wounded preventing the sprinting.

 

If it's too distracting for you, you can remove it in the game options.

 

How could it be more simple?

 

Only things I would change, is removing the unusable left side of it and just make it transparent. And changing the number of segments from 5 to 6, so that one segment means 10 seconds of stamina, not 12.

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In addition, the stamina bar should not be a difficulty setting. It should be in "configure -> game" like the advanced flight model. I am playing on veterane on our servers, and there is no way of telling what's going on with the stamina without that the stamina bar.

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Unfortunately, I 100% agree with what Variable says. Looking back at what RoyaltyInExile wrote as the goals of the new fatigue system:

 

  1. Encourages players to consider their loadout
  2. Asks players to plan their movement
  3. Rewards players that make objectively better choices
  4. Prohibits players from selecting unrealistic loadouts
  5. Is transparent and comprehensible for players

My opinion on these points:

 

1. Failed

If anything, I do consider my loadout less than ever before. After playing several hours worth of missions, I have never ever had a single incident where I felt that my loadout affected my gameplay. Granted, you lose a bit of initial stamina if you overload, but even sprinting seems to be quite inexhaustive, and running just goes on forever. The supposed adverse effects of this system are not felt. Yes, you sway a bit more, go prone and the problem is negated. Wait a second and the problem is negated. Even after sprinting and exhausting myself I could easily hit targets.

 

2. Failed

Movement is in no way influenced by the "stamina" system. You can just run everywhere. Sprinting is limited, yes, but sprinting is a thing you only do in emergency situations anyway, when you have to cross open terrain for example. Other than that, why would I plan my movement? There is no penalty worth mentioning involved.

 

3. Failed

The objectively better choice with this system is to lug a heavy machine gun, launcher and missiles in your backpack. There is little to no penalty for this, and you will always have an advantage over the dumb guy that only packed an assault rifle and light vest because he was stupid enough to think that it matters.

 

4. Failed.

Again, since there is no negative side effect other than the distance you can sprint, picking an unrealistic loadout is not only not prohibited but rather encouraged. Why settle for less hardware when lugging around an arsenal on your back doesn't have any repercussions?

 

5. Failed (big time)

TBH, what exactly is happening? Even if I sprint and my bar turns red, I don't really notice that there is any effect on my aiming, Jogging for miles doesn't seem to have any effect either. It is a marvel that adding a UI element actually causes more confusion that the previous system that didn't have any.

 

Bottom line, I am ultimately disappointed by the direction this has taken, and it is beyond me how anybody could have thought this was a good idea. I was slapped so often with the "Authenticity" card whenever I said "realism", but what is authentic about a guy with a heavy machine gun, launcher, and backpack full of missiles (that even physically do not seem to fit into the backpack) running from one end of Altis to the other without ever having to stop for a breather? What is authetic about being able to just run away from every situation since there is no fatigue that forces you to stop and fight? What is authentic about a system that ONLY impacts your offensive capabilities in a minor way and does not at all impact your movement/defensive capabilities?

 

What is even more embarrassing about the whole system is that for the first time ever in Arma history, authenticity and realism in an Arma game made a step BACKWARDS towards Call of Duty style gameplay. So far, everything that has been added to Arma 3 was an addition that elevated the game beyond what Arma 2 was - an improvement over the original games in almost any aspect. Weapon attachments, weight limits, inertia for weapons (even though the latter is way too forgiving), and fatigue, all ADDED to the authenticity of the game. For the first time ever this was cut back, apparently only in an effort to appease a (perceived or real) crowd of more casual gamers. But what came out of it serves no one. It is said you cannot please everyone all the time, but I do not think that the solution to that is trying to please no one.

 

It saddens me to think how many resources must have been sunk into this abomination of the fatigue system, while other aspects like Driving AI and AI helicopter landings (just to name two of my pet peeves) are still unaddressed, not to mention the AI's behavior in danger mode, or other aspects like the poor animation capabilities of the engine... There is a big list of issues, some huge, some small, that would have been better suited for an overhaul that a perfectly working system.

 

And yes, I *am* aware that it is possible to mod this and that there is a semi-unofficial mod already that brings back the old fatigue, but that is besides the point. There have been addons in the past that added bipods and weapon resting, but nobody will use this as a reason to argue that the weapon resting in game should be removed. Just because addons are possible doesn't mean it would be a good idea to remove all soldiers and vehicles from the game saying "what are you complaining about, you can mod it in anyway". The same holds true here. Just the ability to mod it in doesn't justify the setback that this "fatigue" "system" is. It's an attempt to compromise between hardcore and casual, and will be rejected and disliked by almost everyone on both ends of the spectrum.

 

I have very little hope that this situation will be remedied in the future, and to be honest, the way this went scares the hell out of me, because I do not like the direction this is going at all. I really hope you are done axing features now that were already in the game, and concentrate on fixing the issues that are still present that really impact gameplay. Like the inability of AI to drive in a convoy.

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The length of the bar tells you how much stamina you have.

The orange colour means you're consuming stamina at a fast rate, I.e. sprinting or going up a steep hill.

The red means you're exhausted and can't sprint even if there's stamina left.

The mountain icon means you're climbing an incline so steep that you're unable to sprint. There's no way knowing this without the icon because you can't tell if the incline is over 17 degrees.

There's also a cross icon which appears when your legs are wounded preventing the sprinting.

I should have seen that coming... the point of my post was not to request an explanation, the point was to convey my confusion regarding an element that its soul purpose was "transparency" and that achieves the opposite. But the fact that you required so many sentences to describe a single UI element proves my point - the thing is over-engineered to the point of a disturbance (a "17 degrees elevation" indicator, really??), and I think many players will find it confusing.

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I should have seen that coming... the point of my post was not to request an explanation, the point was to convey my confusion regarding an element that its soul purpose was "transparency" and that achieves the opposite. But the fact that you required so many sentences to describe a single UI element proves my point - the thing is over-engineered to the point of a disturbance (a "17 degrees elevation" indicator, really??), and I think many players will find it confusing.

And my point was asking how could it be more transparent. I was just hoping for some good suggestions.

 

Would it be less confusing if there was no mountain and health indicators? Players would just intuitively know why they can't sprint?

 

And 17 is just the number of degrees, nobody needs to know or remember it. It doesn't mean the system is over-engineered, computer programs just tend to need exact numbers.

 

Sounds like your attack on HUD is merely a straw man for your dislike towards the stamina system.

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I really don't want to make this discussion about this icon or the other, since I think the system as a whole is flawed, but since you asked I am always in favor of natural indications as opposed to HUD elements. I think that the mountain icon should be removed completely, the player can deduct from the (rather visible) hill in front of him that he can't sprint, there's no need for a granularity in the level of the 17 degrees barrier. It's just too much information that can be provided by interacting with the environment rather with a HUD element. same goes for a health indicator. It's ridiculous to indicate with an icon something that is so obvious as an injury, some aching sounds would do.

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I really don't want to make this discussion about this icon or the other, since I think the system as a whole is flawed, but since you asked I am always in favor of natural indications as opposed to HUD elements. I think that the mountain icon should be removed completely, the player can deduct from the (rather visible) hill in front of him that he can't sprint, there's no need for a granularity in the level of the 17 degrees barrier. It's just too much information that can be provided by interacting with the environment rather with a HUD element. same goes for a health indicator. It's ridiculous to indicate with an icon something that is so obvious as an injury, some aching sounds would do.

 

As horrible as the stamina system itself is, stamina bar does not in any way deserve to be on the wall of shame. It's a segmented bar with two icons, if that is confusing, then I don't know what isn't. Shove it away through the UI editor and you don't have to look at it. If you want examples of the "UI elements that indicate you're in a vehicle or that you're holding a weapon", guess what, they're right there in top left and top right and were since OFP.

 

Please, don't advocate for more things to be indicated by more heavy breathing, wheezing and sighing, we shouldn't be deducing the stamina state by the pitch shift level of the heavy breathing the character produces. UI items for intrinsic things to a human which can't be conveyed in the same way through the screen is perfectly fine. Guessing between injuries, hold breath feature and stamina solely by heavy breathing sounds is a much worse alternative.

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As horrible as the stamina system itself is, stamina bar does not in any way deserve to be on the wall of shame. It's a segmented bar with two icons, if that is confusing, then I don't know what isn't. Shove it away through the UI editor and you don't have to look at it. If you want examples of the "UI elements that indicate you're in a vehicle or that you're holding a weapon", guess what, they're right there in top left and top right and were since OFP.

 

Please, don't advocate for more things to be indicated by more heavy breathing, wheezing and sighing, we shouldn't be deducing the stamina state by the pitch shift level of the heavy breathing the character produces. UI items for intrinsic things to a human which can't be conveyed in the same way through the screen is perfectly fine. Guessing between injuries, hold breath feature and stamina solely by heavy breathing sounds is a much worse alternative.

I have to disagree. The stamina bar is a confusing mess, even though I have been following this discussion and knew to expect it. I hate to think what someone who doesn't know that there's a stamina bar would make of it.

 

I saw a mostly blank bar with a couple of coloured segments on the right end which seemed to shorten from the right over time. I get that orange is bad and red is worse but apart from that I have no idea what it's trying to tell me.

 

Using a combination of breathing, blurring, shaking effects would be much more intuitive than this bar.

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I think the stamina/ fatigue should have detailed options listed in the options of the game under game options, allowing a user (SP) to adjust the settings based on how they like to play.

Settings can be a combo of numbers and a difficulty where you can choose a level, each level has a title, and description giving the player an idea of how their game will be effected.

 

For servers they can use a command in the server.cfg or maybe the armaprofile where the server can determine what fatigue level the server is to use, you would also want to list in the title of the

server details of the level, so those joining who have a low level would know that this "server" uses this level of fatigue/stamina.

 

Just an idea i was pondering, imo why change the whole game so its universal when you can customize the game for your own play style, considering Arma series

is about freedom, customization, simulation, and basically a big sandbox, I dont see how practical this is to change the game in a way that effects everyone's game, this concept i get from my mod

series where I basically put all mods in one mod and from there make a list of files and their descriptions, and let the player/user of the mod customize the mod for their likes/dislikes and overall playstyle,

 

why Bis chose to not further enhance the customization aspects of the option/ game settings perplexes me, so one change effects everyone, the run n gunners,

and the serious realism crowd and of course those in between.

 

Bis you guys got to make the game more customizable for players not keep doing a 1 rule applies to everyone, it dont work.

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Although I feel like it was unwise to take a step forward and then backward, I personally think the current stamina system fits Arma more in its current state. With the old fatigue system you were majorly penalized for doing mostly anything, but then you had a basic medical system that involves either healing instantly to 75% health or having an unlimited 100% health heal from medics. Having a hardcore fatigue system while having extremely basic sub systems didn't seem to mesh. The current system doesn't seem that bad but if it had the old animation slowdown feature it would be much better. The old system should still be in the game as a choice though.

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