Fatigue Feedback (dev branch)

[-Coulum- 35]

I understand that. I am making a comment on their endurance. I do not expect to sprint, run, or even jog for 40km. I am saying that if a soldier can walk 40km in full ruck that a sprint of 150m leading to a complete slowdown to walk is absurd.

No it isn't. Its totally different processes going into walking/slow jog and sprinting. Ones totally aerobic, ones pretty much all anaerobic. This is supported by the fact that good long distance runners make shitty sprinters and vice versa.

Just because your good at doesn't mean you'll be good at the other.

[Greenfist 1863]

I understand that. I am making a comment on their endurance. I do not expect to sprint, run, or even jog for 40km. I am saying that if a soldier can walk 40km in full ruck that a sprint of 150m leading to a complete slowdown to walk is absurd.

That's not true. The fastest speed with maximum fatigue is 9km/h, you can keep that forever. That's nowhere near walking speed, which is about 5km/h.

I can't say if the point at which you reach that slowest speed is realistic, though.

[blackthorne556 10]

http://outontheporch.org/2009/06/15/running-on-air/ http://www.the-two-malcontents.com/2009/06/iraqi-special-operations-forces-us-soldiers-take-on-special-forces-challenge-compete-for-braggin%E2%80%99-rights/ "Soldiers in full combat gear sprint for approximately a quarter of a mile" (400m) Edited July 31, 2014 by Blackthorne556

[CaptainObvious 95]

http://outontheporch.org/2009/06/15/running-on-air/ "Soldiers in full combat gear sprint for approximately a quarter of a mile" (400m)

How fast do they sprint?

[blackthorne556 10]

How fast do they sprint?

Fast enough to be competing in a timed challenge... View articles.

1/4 mile sprint, followed by 1/4 mile van push, followed by shooting while in motion.

[Greenfist 1863]

http://outontheporch.org/2009/06/15/running-on-air/ http://www.the-two-malcontents.com/2009/06/iraqi-special-operations-forces-us-soldiers-take-on-special-forces-challenge-compete-for-braggin%E2%80%99-rights/ "Soldiers in full combat gear sprint for approximately a quarter of a mile" (400m)

I can't see their time or speed mentioned? ;)

[CaptainObvious 95]

Fast enough to be competing in a timed challenge... View articles.

'Fast enough' is a pretty broad answer methinks.

[blackthorne556 10]

I can't see their time or speed mentioned? ;)

I think I smell a troll.

---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:55 ----------

'Fast enough' is a pretty broad answer methinks.

Sprinting for 1/4 mile then pushing a van for same distance, then connecting with a human sized target with 2 rounds while still in motion is enough to prove my point methinks.

But you know.. You can prove anything with facts, so what do I know.

[CaptainObvious 95]

I think I smell a troll.

Well so what if those guys do that? Without any kind of results it's useless to compare their stuff to what we have in Arma.

[vegeta897 13]

Asking for time/speed is trolling? This discussion is entirely about time/speed/distance. Your point is not proven unless you can show that their sprints are the same as Arma's sprints. Their sprints might be as fast as Arma's jogging. Then you're throwing in extra factors to muddy the comparison, and draw a conclusion from it. Proof is hard data and proper comparisons.

[Greenfist 1863]

I think I smell a troll.

Sprinting for 1/4 mile then pushing a van for same distance, then connecting with a human sized target with 2 rounds while still in motion is enough to prove my point methinks.

But you know.. You can prove anything with facts, so what do I know.

Are you serious? A troll?

You proved that a soldier can "sprint" 400m. At what speed? The same as in Arma - 18km/h? I really doubt that. Or is it more like Arma's jog - 11 km/h? The fact is that that photo of them running doesn't prove they ran at Arma "sprint" speed. So it proves absolutely nothing at all.

edit. I see I get ninja'd left and right here. :)

[twisted 128]

Right now fatigue and the effects of running have been so reduced so much that they are barely an issue or hardly influence on gameplay in this current Dev release.

It's a wasted opportunity to have a truly tactical element of gameplay like this essentialy lost. Not the first time an innovative feature has been moaned to death by people unable to change their run and gun everywhere mentality.

Real pity though. Especially when mission makers already have the commands to reduce or even disable the fatigue effects as they need.

Edited July 31, 2014 by twisted

[Bloodvayne 10]

Right now fatigue and the effects of running have been so reduced so much that they are barely an issue or hardly influence on gameplay in this current Dev release.

It's a wasted opportunity to have a truly tactical element of gameplay like this essentialy lost. Not the first time an innovative feature has been moaned to death by people unable to change their run and gun everywhere mentality.

Real pity though. Especially when mission makers already have the commands to reduce or even disable the fatigue effects as they need.

Truly agree.

[Bouben 3]

Right now fatigue and the effects of running have been so reduced so much that they are barely an issue or hardly influence on gameplay in this current Dev release.

It's a wasted opportunity to have a truly tactical element of gameplay like this essentialy lost. Not the first time an innovative feature has been moaned to death by people unable to change their run and gun everywhere mentality.

Real pity though. Especially when mission makers already have the commands to reduce or even disable the fatigue effects as they need.

Agreed. The current sway and fatigue has hardly any impact on my gameplay.

[raspu86 92]

Right now fatigue and the effects of running have been so reduced so much that they are barely an issue or hardly influence on gameplay in this current Dev release.

It's a wasted opportunity to have a truly tactical element of gameplay like this essentialy lost. Not the first time an innovative feature has been moaned to death by people unable to change their run and gun everywhere mentality.

Real pity though. Especially when mission makers already have the commands to reduce or even disable the fatigue effects as they need.

I feel I need to raise my voice here as well. Missed opportunity. Sad to see fatigue basically removed due uneducated complaints!

[Variable 322]

BIS please don't be let down and remove a much wanted feature! Don't reduce the fatigue effects!

[CaptainObvious 95]

Tuning in to voice my concerns too, this magnificent system can't go to waste.

[13islucky 10]

I suppose I'll join in as well. I quite like it, and I would really be disappointed if it was toned down to pre-update levels.

[Varanon 892]

Agreed, the fatigue has to be more pronounced, otherwise, we're back to square one where everyone is loaded up to the teeth with stuff. Don't remove the fatigue, removing it would make the game tactically more shallow. Mission makers that don't want it can always use enableFatigue if they want to.

Edit: If there is a possibility, why not add a difficulty setting, like Encumberance: High or Low. That way, people that don't want the high fatigue can tone it down. But please don't remove this great feature again

Edited August 1, 2014 by Varanon
Additional clarification

[bumgie 49]

Right now fatigue and the effects of running have been so reduced so much that they are barely an issue or hardly influence on gameplay in this current Dev release.

It's a wasted opportunity to have a truly tactical element of gameplay like this essentialy lost. Not the first time an innovative feature has been moaned to death by people unable to change their run and gun everywhere mentality.

Real pity though. Especially when mission makers already have the commands to reduce or even disable the fatigue effects as they need.

I also agree. I am also astonished how a vocal bunch without any concrete evidence to support them has had such an impact on the devs. Yet people who post videos of them proving the sway and fatigue can be handled are ignored.

[Alwarren 2767]

I was thinking that people are exaggerating maybe, but this is beyond funny.

I just set my fatigue to 100 % and could still happily shoot far-away targets. STANDING.

I 100% agree with twisted and the others here, why oh why do you add a feature and then water it down to a point were it isn't even noticeable anymore, just because some people complained they can't sprint for ten kilometers anymore. Seriously, put the original sway back in, the way that it is now in stable is perfect. For once, please stick with a feature that added a lot of tactical depth to the game. Never before had I even wasted a though on whether to take e.g. a pair of NVG's along, or an extra load of magazines. Now I started to add ammo bearers to my missions because prior to the bootcamp update, everybody could carry their own armory on the back.

So, please, put it back. It is really sad to see a great feature being bashed back into mainstream just because of "King of the Hill" players complaining about not being able to carry a tank anymore.

[Variable 322]

This is ridiculous, really. The fatigue was one of the main points of a letter more than 60 people were signed on. Development hours were put into it, a lot of people have regained their trust on BIS because of that, people enjoyment and satisfaction from the game has increased dramatically for a lot of players, and now it is being faded and practically removed from the game while it is possible to edit it out from all the run-and-gun game modes who are the main complainers. I cannot explain this.

That was the single significant improvement to the game in a long time and now it is gone.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Variable

[maddogx 13]

I was thinking that people are exaggerating maybe, but this is beyond funny.

I just set my fatigue to 100 % and could still happily shoot far-away targets. STANDING.

I 100% agree with twisted and the others here, why oh why do you add a feature and then water it down to a point were it isn't even noticeable anymore, just because some people complained they can't sprint for ten kilometers anymore. Seriously, put the original sway back in, the way that it is now in stable is perfect. For once, please stick with a feature that added a lot of tactical depth to the game. Never before had I even wasted a though on whether to take e.g. a pair of NVG's along, or an extra load of magazines. Now I started to add ammo bearers to my missions because prior to the bootcamp update, everybody could carry their own armory on the back.

So, please, put it back. It is really sad to see a great feature being bashed back into mainstream just because of "King of the Hill" players complaining about not being able to carry a tank anymore.

Agreed.

Surely there must be a better compromise than "almost back to zero".

[Variable 322]

Agreed.

Surely there must be a better compromise than "almost back to zero".

I think that no compromise is needed at all since it can be edited out.

[Alwarren 2767]

Agreed.

Surely there must be a better compromise than "almost back to zero".

At the core, all the tools are already there. If fatigue is a problem for a certain game type, it can be disabled. Alternatively, BIS could add a new entry to description.ext with a "fatigue scale", i.e.

fatigueFactors[] = [<weightScale>, <swayScale>];

with weightScale being a factor by which weight influences the fatigue, e.g. 1.00 means the normal weight will be applied, while a factor of 0.8 would mean that the weight will scale to 80% when calculating fatiigue.

Likewise, the swayScale could be a factor which says how much weapon sway is applied when fatigued. Again, 1.0 means full sway, while 0.5 means that sway is reduced by 50%.

In any case, the way that the latest dev build implements it is a disaster, it's like the fatigue is no longer there. Every time we played recently, I thought it was a delightful change to have to make regular pauses to catch our breath instead of being able to just keep on running. It adds so much immersion to the game, and I find it extremely sad to see this being toned down like this.