AI Discussion (dev branch)

[Vasily.B 529]

11 hours ago, joostsidy said:

I think this is a long standing bug (has been there for 2 years?), that I can't explain yet. In the middle of a mission you turn around to find out one of your squad mates has decided he will continue the mission using only his pistol. He has a rifle, he has ammo, there are no enemies in sight.

 

16 hours ago, sammael said:

maybe bug in 1.66..

Bohemia? Please, i lost my squad numerous times beacuse of this....

[Variable 322]

It's been like that much more than two years I'm afraid. It's a long habit of mine to place the AI's sidearms in their vest or backpacks, or completely remove them. The cases in which they'll actually need to switch to their pistol are so rare that it's not worth the trouble given this issue.

[road runner 4344]

2 hours ago, Variable said:

It's been like that much more than two years I'm afraid. It's a long habit of mine to place the AI's sidearms in their vest or backpacks, or completely remove them. The cases in which they'll actually need to switch to their pistol are so rare that it's not worth the trouble given this issue.

Yep, simplest solution is to remove their sidearm, when it's time for them to use it, it's too late, chances are they'll be dead due to being fucking stupid as opposed to having to use their sidearm.

[Vasily.B 529]

1 hour ago, road runner said:

Yep, simplest solution is to remove their sidearm, when it's time for them to use it, it's too late, chances are they'll be dead due to being fucking stupid as opposed to having to use their sidearm.

What about workshop missions? I need to do this everytime mission starts. Its a game feature, it should be working. Its just like not working part in car - you will repair it or not use it?
Its also breaking rearming function for AI, as they rearm everywhere when they can find ammo for ANY weapon from their inventory, so if they cry they have no ammo for their AK, you will have 60 actions of rearm for this AI, just beacuse in the rearm points (bodies, crates) there is ammo for one of his weapon, including pistol, grenades, etc.
There is already ticket made by me, and its never gonna be fixed.
https://feedback.bistudio.com/T119623

This ticket is about it, still new since 2014 :
https://feedback.bistudio.com/T78246

So no, its not solution, its moving problem under the carpet.

 

[road runner 4344]

25 minutes ago, Vasily.B said:

What about workshop missions? I need to do this everytime mission starts. Its a game feature, it should be working. Its just like not working part in car - you will repair it or not use it?
Its also breaking rearming function for AI, as they rearm everywhere when they can find ammo for ANY weapon from their inventory, so if they cry they have no ammo for their AK, you will have 60 actions of rearm for this AI, just beacuse in the rearm points (bodies, crates) there is ammo for one of his weapon, including pistol, grenades, etc.
There is already ticket made by me, and its never gonna be fixed.
https://feedback.bistudio.com/T119623

This ticket is about it, still new since 2014 :
https://feedback.bistudio.com/T78246

So no, its not solution, its moving problem under the carpet.

 

Poor analogy of comparing a sidearm to that of a part of a car, having a sidearm is like carry grenades, it's a benefit, it's not compulsory, hence why I said it's a simple solution to make the AI stop using it.
You do have a habit of over dramatising Vasily, I get what you mean, however you complain about the AI using sidearms at the wrong time, you're offered a simple solution, until the AI either get tweaked or they don't. The choice is yours, I tend to find that it's their own stupidity that gets them killed, I am also using the C2 AI command by Mad Cheese, that's not too bad at all, but the AI in A3 are never going to be Tier 1 dudes by any stretch of the imagination.

Rappel onto a roof, they will all walk off the edge and die, as they can't climb up and down ladders.

Having piss poor AI is why a lot of people don't use SP, and opt for Co-Op/Multiplayer, the AI are never going to impress me unless they systematically clear house by house by house in Urban combat. 

As I said, I get your point, it's how you chose to deal with their mannerisms, than can make you win/lose missions. I keep mine away from water and high objects, as they have a habit of drowning themselves after 2-3 minutes swimming about, or walking off the roofs..

[Vasily.B 529]

They can climb ladders. I discovered this long time ago, when setting defence perimeter on Shapur - they were climbing on chamber without any order - just to keep formation. Same yesterday with zombies following me upon chamber in chernarus.

I also dont play with roofs or water, didnt tried C2 since 2 or 3 last updates.

But most frustrating for me is keeping in game features that dont work (rearming), and sidearm - i can use your method, and i was done it for long time, but what about friendly units NOT from my squad, when i dont have access to their inventory? I can shoot them on mission start to limit their pain.

[joostsidy 684]

3 hours ago, road runner said:

Having piss poor AI is why a lot of people don't use SP, and opt for Co-Op/Multiplayer, the AI are never going to impress me unless they systematically clear house by house by house in Urban combat. 
 

 

In general I have a good time with the AI. I play exclusively SP.

 

I do use some measures:

- I try to make missions a bit lineair, with a couple of paths to succes, but not totally dynamic. Arma 3 temps with the illusion of super dynamic missions, but these usually fall flat with AI vehicles getting stuck in ditches etc.

 

- I help the ai out a bit by switchunit to the AT guy or the Grenadier and I give explicit directions very fast: you stand there, you stand there, etc.

- I give the AI the more boring simple tasks like ambush and overwatch while I'm clearing rooms

- With specops I turn their skill to max to compensate for their AI blunders, you might not do house clearing with this, but street clearing is fun and they shoot a lot of enemies in houses from the street.

[Variable 322]

You want to be amazed by the AI aggressiveness, taking cover skill and ability to clear rooms? Play with ACE + ASR AI (and for good suppression measures TPWCAS), and set skillAI to 0.7 and precisionAI to 0.2.

[Vasily.B 529]

18 hours ago, Variable said:

You want to be amazed by the AI aggressiveness, taking cover skill and ability to clear rooms? Play with ACE + ASR AI (and for good suppression measures TPWCAS), and set skillAI to 0.7 and precisionAI to 0.2.

I dont play ASR AI mainly for one reason - AI crews was disembarking vehicles in random moments, with no reason. besides that ASR was great, but thanks to this bug, it becomes fatally unplayable for me. I reported issue 2 or 3 times.

[ImperialAlex 72]

Quote

• Tweaked: Enemy detection by plain sight is now limited by the object view distance 

I can't believe that this wasn't always done this way.  What was the previous behaviour? (Non-object) view distance as a limit? 

[mad_cheese 593]

Between the feedback tracker and this I still don't which place is meant for dropping utopian phantasies. I'll just use this here.

 

I have been experimenting a lot with AI in house to house warfare in the last 6 months or so. it's really amazing what can be done with a few tricks here and there. Having said that:

 

This whole path-lod system is not aging well and I mean that with the upmost respect. I appreciate whatever is there, it is way way better than nothing.

 

But moving units through buildings on rails rapidly kills all immersion and subjectively speaking I think a huge potential for SP and coop-gameplay is kept in hibernation. An alternative like nav-meshes etc would be great but hey anything but rails.

 

Then again this is just me dumping my recent sorrow here. It's not like I'm not having tons of fun with the working stuff :)

 

 

 

[cyruz 103]

Quote

• Tweaked: Enemy detection by plain sight is now limited by the object view distance 

 

How does this apply to AI on dedicated servers?

[froggyluv 2135]

 

 Agree with his Cheesiness that a new NavMesh that allows the AI more freedom to move about would open up so many new possibilities. Id really like to have something similar to FarCry's editor in which you can actually draw and modify the map as well as movement blockers so that well you know, AI snipers can walk tall building rooftops without just walking off..Also each and every object has the AI cover positions built in so they can use everything.

 

 This is one of those areas as well as a newer, better animation system that worries me about just staying on Arma 3 DLC ad infinitum as its very doubtful these crucial aspects will be upgraded until a new infused engine *cough Arma 4*. Remember they said, "Arma's animation system is already pushed beyond the max"...where does that leave us to go?

[bad benson 1733]

i gotta hop onto the "indoor pathfinding could be better/existing"-train here too. i've been literally bringing this up for years showing examples of how other games (like even dragon rising) do it being shot down by white knights on the forums. i've been having so much fun against AI lately. in my mission i have them all be their own leaders with their own group each and it really shows how good the AI is (now). must be the lack of a leader and formation interfering

 

. they do sneaky flanks, they use corners to lean and they even use frag and smoke grenades very frequently. yes they did that (or some of it) in arma 2 too but i feel the clean up work oukej and others have done combined with using them how i do (group thing) finally shows what they can do on paper actually realised ingame.

 

but as others have said. the fake indoor path"finding" really kills it. i don't even feel it's just outdated since i remember AI being way more flexible in pretty old games like return to castle wolfenstein. it's probably more of a bandaid solution hack thingy that never got replaced by a real thing.

 

i really hope AI won't get dropped or over simplified in future titles. there's so much potential that is waiting to be unlocked still. and with all these new technologies and larger and larger games emerging i don't really feel arma having the big head start in terms of scale anymore. the AI was always what set it apart for me because the other stuff i can do elsewhere too and often better.

 

to balance out the rantiness a little more. the changes to driving (also way overdue) have been amazing too. although i still feel that they HAVE to ignore those tight jungle paths. no way they are ever going to get through there.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

3 hours ago, bad benson said:

 

i really hope AI won't get dropped or over simplified in future titles.

 

I agree, lots of potential with AI, we love our AI but there are a few things holding it back which are reasonable things to improve (not out of scope for a mililtary game).

 

unfortunately I think it will, something about 'industry standards'

 

lots of games are dropping or simplifying their AI due to cost/benefit. Expensive to hire team of programmers who are good at AI, and AI doesn't really sell copies like PvP/TvT does.

[omon 19]

We have a strange problem with Remote AI.

Remote AI will go into hold fire mode in mid games, mostly AI that's inside static weapons. They will have full ammo and they track the targets but don't fire.

Currently we run a loop on them to open fire every 30 seconds, and i have also seen this dirty fix on other CTI servers like CRcti.

Is that a known issue or something DEVs can take a look at?

 

			//--- Update the gunner's properties every 60 seconds to fix them going into hold fire mode
			_ai spawn {
				while {alive _this} do {
					_this setBehaviour "DANGER";
					_this setCombatMode "YELLOW";
					_this enableAttack true;
					_this allowFleeing 0;
					sleep 60;
				};
			};

 

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

2 hours ago, omon said:

We have a strange problem with Remote AI.

Remote AI will go into hold fire mode in mid games, mostly AI that's inside static weapons. They will have full ammo and they track the targets but don't fire.

Currently we run a loop on them to open fire every 30 seconds, and i have also seen this dirty fix on other CTI servers like CRcti.

Is that a known issue or something DEVs can take a look at?

 

			//--- Update the gunner's properties every 60 seconds to fix them going into hold fire mode
			_ai spawn {
				while {alive _this} do {
					_this setBehaviour "DANGER";
					_this setCombatMode "YELLOW";
					_this enableAttack true;
					_this allowFleeing 0;
					sleep 60;
				};
			};

 

 

There is no setBehaviour 'DANGER'; ... I believe it's setBehaviour 'COMBAT'; 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setBehaviour

 

try also this function:

 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/commandFire

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/assignedTarget

 

if (!isNull (assignedTarget _this)) then {_this commandFire (assignedTarget _this);};

 

[omon 19]

On 1/28/2017 at 0:20 PM, fn_Quiksilver said:

 

 

There is no setBehaviour 'DANGER'; ... I believe it's setBehaviour 'COMBAT'; 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setBehaviour

 

try also this function:

 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/commandFire

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/assignedTarget

 

if (!isNull (assignedTarget _this)) then {_this commandFire (assignedTarget _this);};

 

 

That is for OFP for arma 3 its different 

[mad_cheese 593]

Introduced with OFP but totally valid in Arma3.

 

[x3kj 1247]

Could we get a feature set that enables AI to use weapon deployment on predetermined positions? Namely, positions defined in Path LOD of buildings/Objects. AI occupying this deployment position should man it as "temporary turret" until out of ammo or commanded to move somewhere else by a commander.

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T123209

This would help a lot to make better use of AI for defensive purposes in cities, or field fortifications.

Analog to weapon holder ground objects, "firing position objects" could be created  (that just have a minimal path LOD with a deployment point). These could be used in EDEN editor to declare positions wherever needed, when the original model does not have a fitting position.

 

[joostsidy 684]

17 hours ago, x3kj said:

Could we get a feature set that enables AI to use weapon deployment on predetermined positions? Namely, positions defined in Path LOD of buildings/Objects. AI occupying this deployment position should man it as "temporary turret" until out of ammo or commanded to move somewhere else by a commander.

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T123209

This would help a lot to make better use of AI for defensive purposes in cities, or field fortifications.

Analog to weapon holder ground objects, "firing position objects" could be created  (that just have a minimal path LOD with a deployment point). These could be used in EDEN editor to declare positions wherever needed, when the original model does not have a fitting position.

 

 

My two cents:

- In your feedback.bistudio you mention that you want this feature because inf tend to go prone. I don't think this is a good reason in itself. A solution for that would be to prevent inf from going prone inside. You don't need a temp. turret for that. I use setUnitPos 'UP' for all inf scattered in buildings at the start of the mission. A BI solution could work in a similar way, with a kind of 'isInside' condition

- I'm a little hesitant as proper infantry doctrine is to not stand immediately in front of the windows, but move a little into the building to reduce profile. If you scatter some infantry randomly into buildingPos of a building with doStop this and setPos 'UP', they can form a formidable defence. So a temp turret should not be sticking guns out the windows/leaning on the windows by default

- Units looking directly out the window isn't always the best solution: In my missions, sometimes, a unit stands in front of a window (because buildingPos) but actually looks and shoots out windows across the room (because of random setDir), making a formidable opponent. I would like to keep this behavior possible in the future

- I agree with 'It would likely suffice to have a select few deployment positions on each building, not every space where deployment could be possible for players needs to be an AI deployment point.'  I can imagine some positions lending themselves for a machine gun / overwatch position. A temp. turret sounds great for that

- I think my biggest complaint is units looking directly at a wall next to them!

 

- I am in favor of any measures that improve use of buildings :-)

[x3kj 1247]

Quote

I'm a little hesitant as proper infantry doctrine is to not stand immediately in front of the windows, but move a little into the building to reduce profile.

Good luck trying to teach AI that. Having a deployment position allows you to order AI to use it on demand. In mission editor, Zeus(where things might have to be set up quickly), and even ingame as a squad leader. Deployment positions have fixed firing arcs and watch direction, fixed stance and fixed position in relation to the building. Means they wont run off on their own, or watch in the wrong direction, or stand 50cm to the right and not be able to shoot, or go prone and try to shoot through the wall, etc etc. And that without any "i set unit pos, then watch direction, then blablabla". Yes it does not solve every problem, but it can do a lot.

 

And not every deployment position is a window in a house. It can also be sandbags, or bunker firing slits, a pile of bricks on a construction site.  Positions that are much better than your average window. 

[froggyluv 2135]

On 2/6/2017 at 5:45 AM, joostsidy said:

 

 with a kind of 'isInside' condition

 

 Does this exist in any capacity bedsides audio? To determine if Ai is inside?

[old_painless 182]

Just saw this:

 

Fixed: AI infantry would flee when unable to engage

 

This might explain why in some scenarios a few AI units just go AWOL, during the fighting. Simply leave the AO and takeoff on a hike. I once followed some dude for a kilometer or so. Great stuff if it's fixed

[joostsidy 684]

10 hours ago, froggyluv said:

 

 Does this exist in any capacity bedsides audio? To determine if Ai is inside?

No. The closest thing is, as far as I know is, with scripting, to shoot virtual line of sight rays and see if they hit walls or roof to determine if inside.